A Monoblack deck for reviewing

[Zherbus]

Posted in Extreme Vintage under the mono-black theory discussion. Since that isnt really a deck critique forum, I am duplicating the post here.

Hi all!

Never posted before, but my friend told me about this site last week and after some hours of leafing through "Suicide related material", I just had to register! Great site!

Ok, some background before I present my problem. We have an active group of 15+ people in my area, who are involved in a league of our own. Every event we have is with a different format (BYOB, Highlander, Real-Man, etc.) and the next is the T1. Last year we had a T1 tournament too, and the decks I remember from there are: Stompy, 2 Sligh, 2 Pox (one was me), Stasis and one Workshop deck. This year I expect a small increase in the amount of control decks, since a friend of mine who actually has power cards is joining. I would still believe the metagame being quite "Aggroish"...

In spite of that I've elected to play Suicide. Judging from this thread, it is not a wise move, but that's what I have cards for. Also the fact, that all the decks are virtually powerless, makes me drool over Dark Ritual ridden speed deck. It's almost like having Time Walk yourself, when all the other decks are one turn slower.

After reading the Legend's fantastic (and refreshingly egoistic) primer and all the mono-black threads I could find, I've compiled this deck. What I want from you, readers, is comments. Is this a viable combination or have I made too much compromises between Control and Aggro match-up oriented cards? Is the land-count OK? Which god to pray for, when that horrible Artifact deck sits opposite me? And so on...

Creatures: (15)
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Phyrexian Negator
2 Phyrexian War Beast
2 Masticore

Disrupt: (15)
4 Duress
4 Hymn of Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Powder Keg

Restricted: (4)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence

Mana sources: (26)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
16 Swamp

Sideboard:
1 Powder Keg
1 Phyrexian Negator
2 Masticore
3 Contagion
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Dystopia

Choices that need explaining:

Necropotence - I have played this for a year in my BW Pox deck. My main adversary has been the friend with a powered Keeper. This card has won me so many games, that I just can't make myself to leave it behind! In last years T1 event I played it against Sligh and won with a Pox (the spell)!! How is that for a once in a lifetime?! Black decks are like Top Fuelers. They run a nasty quartermile, but then the gas runs out. Not with the 'potence, though...

Vampiric Tutor - Since my game plan against control is to resolve the Necro, this becomes much better than a Consult. I have no fear of Consult per se, but I can't seem to fit it in anymore.

3 Negators - It's not bad against aggro, you just don't want to drop it in early rounds. I also don't want to throw away the games against random control decks, when I can have these.

Black Lotus & Mox Jet - Ain't got any. Borrow yours? Thought so...

All the rest should be clear to those of you, who have read these threads.

Finally, a comment on the Sarcomancy-Flesh Reaver debate. I would feel a lot safer Playing Sarcomancy in any mono-black deck, but reading your comments I realised being stuck to the manacurve thinking more than I guessed. I also played with a mono-black deck in BYOB and the Zombies were a dissapointment. Against Sligh the Reavers are horrible, no doubt about that. But against Stompy they might very well make a real difference. I have seen Stompy being stuck without creatures after two or three drops. In those cases the Reaver does the wall job admirably. Of course you don't see either in my deck, since I wanted the "Sideboard creatures" in my maindeck. If I were to make a Suicide deck with a more common metagame in mind, I would choose the Reavers for one reason only: Oomph-per-card ratio! When playing 26+ manasources with no manlands, I don't want to add my pain by playing cards which make me wince in rounds after the second... Reaver has some real balls to it compared to the poor afterlifers.

[dandan]

It is possible that someone will make up a reanimator deck or Dragondeck as they can beat aggro decks and are cheapish to build. Since both can go off on low mana and cards in the graveyard can often help them, this is not good news. I think it is worth running something SB to combat this.

The card is:

Ebony Charm B
Instant
Choose one—Target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life; or remove from the game up to three cards in any player's graveyard; or target creature cannot be blocked this turn except by artifact or black creatures.

Note that the first use can win you games against Enchantress Worship locks and the last ability is also not too bad considering you are running fat.

Planar Void is generally considered better but is nowhere as much fun as the charm.

You might also consider changing 1 or 2 Wastelands for Swamps if you expect an unpowered aggro environment.
Otherwise the deck looks strong even if I would prefer Oath in such a metagame ('prefer' in the sense of 'preferring' to go to a dentist if I have toothache)

[Hampuusi]

Thanks Dandan!

I know the cardpools of most of the participants, so I can safely say that there could be one Reanimator (only one guy has the Entombs) and another Dragon deck (but it would the same guy that has the power cards, so his deck will be bad news no matter what). On the other hand, that guy played Dragons in OBC just a month ago, so I don't think he'll be doing that again anytime soon...

As a side note: The stack really was a mess in that deck, since the combo began with 1 Worldgorger, 1 Laquatus' Champion and 2 Faceless Butchers in the grave + Balthor, the Defiled in the table. My head hurts just thinking about it and his opponents clearly felt the same way!

Charms were a nice idea, though! I'll definitely keep that in mind the next time I'm thinking black sideboards. Planar Voids would be sweet, if I had them.

Any comments on the maindeck? Too few cheap threats? Enough mana sources?

[mordraid]

Really good deck and easy to play with. The only things a would always change is the phyrexian war beast, unless you expect a large amount of sligh, negator is way better. But 3 is ok .

So i would cut the 2 war beast and put in 2 diabolic edict.

[Drogo]

Looks solid for a mixed metagame.  My only concern is the Sol Ring and lack of Consult.  Is the Sol Ring really that good in a deck with so many spells that only use black mana?  Seems to me that in this deck going Swamp, Consult for Ritual would be better than Swamp, lay Sol Ring.   I view Consult basically as an extra land that has the added bonus of being an excellent tutor if you don't need land.  

Tony

[Matt The Great]

He has eleven spells that can use two colorless mana - that seems like enough to use Sol Ring reliably.

Quote Which god to pray for, when that horrible Artifact deck sits opposite me?

The god of Edicts, definitely. It's always fun to Edict a Su-Chi and watch them burn in their own juices.

[Drogo]

I'm not saying he can't use the Sol Ring to good effect, I just question whether or not it would be BETTER than another Swamp or Consult instead.   He has 22 spells that require only black mana, and that's enough to make me wonder about the Sol Ring.

Tony

[MarkPharaoh]

The Sol Ring is just so awfully good with Masticore.  a Turn 1 Swamp, Ritual, Sol Ring, Masticore is just insane and makes the Sligh player to just scoop because you'll ping every single creature they play on the table.  Ring can also get out Warbeast faster, which could be critical against an aggro deck like Stompy.  Since he doesns't have a Lotus or a MJet, the Sol Ring is great mana acceleration.

[suicide_slushy]

i'd maybe drop the kegs for a pair of edicts and a consult.  You've got a pretty diverce CC creature base and i dont see how keg would be superior to edicts.  Also i think you have too many creatures in your SB for my liking, you've got 4 of almost every good creature for mono-black some where in your deck/board.  I'd find 1-2 "species" to drop so you can make room for more potent hosers.

[Hampuusi]

Again, thank you guys!

Markpharaoh - That scenario you described is so sweet it's covered in marmalade... Unfortunately I have lost my faith in such things happening to me in tournaments. What can I say, I am not the luckiest person on earth.

Drogo - Consult is changed to V. Tutor because of the Necropotence. The luck applies also here, because I wouldn't dare Consult for Necro in almost under any circumstances. I would like to play Consult as well, but there just are no slots... I don't like to drop under 15 creatures, manasources are at their lowest possible level and Kegs are almost the only thing left to touch. You are right about the Ring, though. I playtested 10+ games against unpowered XLU deck and found that I definitely need another Swamp in the deck. First Hymn on round 4 is something worthy of the name suicide...  

Matt the Great - I so needed Edicts yesterday! Morphling, Masticore, whatever... They are not problems before you have only Negators and they chumpblock all your resources away (still shivering at the thought). If they also help against artificial intelligence, I'm ripe to changing some Kegs away.

Deck and side after changes:

Creatures: (15)
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Phyrexian Negator
2 Phyrexian War Beast
2 Masticore

Disrupt: (15)
4 Duress
4 Hymn of Tourach
4 Sinkhole
2 Powder Keg
1 Diabolic Edict

Restricted: (4)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence

Mana sources: (26)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard:
2 Powder Keg
1 Phyrexian Negator
2 Masticore
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Dystopia
2 Diabolic Edict

Somebody please give me 5 more slots!!  

Comments on the drop of Contagions from side?

[mindtwister]

Terve Hampuusi! Vai on Oulussa T1-scene  
(Sorry about that, fellow Finns are rare in these boards   )

Anyway, I played almost the same MD config at ropecon (a finnish role-playing etc. convention)
Only difference was that I didn't play with war beasts.
Instead I had a mox and 4th negator. Oh, and I played consult over vampiric.
I was really pleased of the deck's ability to crush aggro, especially sligh, after board. I played 2 sligh and lost both first games. But after board they didn't have a chance.
I also went once (playing first) land, mox, ritual, 'core, good game  

My side was:
4 contagion
3 diabolic edict (dragon, big artifact men)
2 masticore
1 keg (3 MD)
2 null rod (these were good against a fully-powered trix I faced)
3 dystopia

I sided everything byt dystopias and rods agains sligh.
I think that the contagions ARE that good and should be worked back in, considering that you say your meta is aggro.
I also think that the reavers are unnecessary in the board.
The maindeck is really good against control.
You only need to side a couple dystopias for cop:s/composts. (And if opponent has the Abyss, leave at least 1 core in, it can make all the difference.)

Thats everything for now. If you do well in the tournament, please post a report!


---janne---

[Hampuusi]

Well hello to you too, Mindtwister!

Worlds rules! Jelly almost made up for the lousy two days in OBC. Can't wait 'till sunday and see how Kotis makes it in the top8!  

Back to business.

I thought about the ditching of the Reavers for a while and it started to make a whole lotta sense after realising, that against the decks I want those buggers I also want to get the Necro on the table ASAP... Hmm... A slight conflict of interests there, I guess. Here's the side after changing it and also how I plan on siding in some of the propable mathcups (MD is unchanged).

Side:
2 Phyrexian Warbeast
2 Masticore
2 Powder Keg
4 Dystopia
1 Phyrexian Negator
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Contagion

Sligh:
+2 Warbeast
+2 Masticore
+2 Keg
+3 Contagion
+1 Edict
-3 Negator
-1 Duress
-1 Necropotence
-1 Vampiric Tutor
-4 Sinkhole

Stompy:
+2 Warbeast
+2 Masticore
+2 Keg
+1 Contagion
+1 Edict
+4 Dystopia
-3 Negator
-1 Necropotence
-4 Sinkhole
-4 Duress

Control blue:
+1 Negator
+1 Edict
-2 Keg

Keeper:
+1 Negator
+2 Dystopia
-2 Masticore
-1 Keg

Artifact decks:
+1 Masticore
+2 Contagion
+1 Edict
-1 Negator
-1 Necropotence
-2 Warbeast

Mirror:
+3 Contagion
+1 Edict
+2 Warbeast
-3 Negator
-2 Keg
-1 Necropotence

Oath:
+1 Negator
+1 Edict
+4 Dystopia
-2 Warbeast
-2 Masticore
-2 Keg

Gro:
+1 Negator
+1 Edict
+2 Keg
+2 Warbeast
+4 Dystopia
-2 Masticore
-4 Sinkhole
-4 Hymn

There's also one mono-black Pox with Chains of Mephistoteles and Altar of Bogardan (or something like it) coming. Ever played against Pox with this kind of deck? Easy or not?

Sidenote: BTW, The big-decked league in Oulu is The Scene for every imaginable format. Just come and see the Real-Man tournament september-october! Unofficial Finnish Masterships!! More info of this league of ours in the http://kotinetti.suomi.net/michaelb/mtgoulu.htm pages.

[mindtwister]

You -really- should side duress and hymn out before even thinking about siding the sinkholes agains sligh.
Sligh decks usually run on minimal land, and even 1 sinkhole can mana screw them for quite a while.
At ropecon I had an interesting situation:
I was at 7 my opponent at 8. I had a masticore and 4 land on board, he had nothing but two mountains and two cards in hand.
I had a will in hand and two possibilities: either cast sinkhole and win in two turns or cast shade and try to win next turn.
I played the sinkhole, he blasted me in response.
I hit him twice with the 'core and won and he showed me 2 bolts.
The sinkhole definitely won me the game.


---janne---

[Hampuusi]

All right M.twister - the Sinks stay in.

Let my opponents choke on their unusable Fireblasts, har har har... This is the revised sideboard plan:

+2 Warbeast
+2 Masticore
+2 Powder Keg
+3 Contagion
-3 Phyrexian Negator
-4 Duress
-1 Necropotence
-1 Vampiric Tutor

I don't side my second Edict in, because I feel that Hymns are more important in this matchup. If I concentrate on destroying the lands, I still want to hit their hand before they get back to two Mountains and empty it themselves. That hurts more...

Question on siding against Stompy: Should I side out Hymns or Sinkholes? I know Stompy runs extremely low on land, but I would also like to hit their few last cards to find those creature pumpers before they do me in.

Do I need Kegs against a full artifact deck? Last year I played Pox against it and got to see rounds 3 and 4 in the games we had.    Kegs feel a little slow on that background...

Nice weekend to all you T1 enthusiasts out there!

[MarkPharaoh]

I don't know about that, hand destruction just ruins Sligh's day. Turn 1 Swamp, Ritual, Duress, Hymn can wreck Sligh's plans very badly and may even take there lands with the Hymn.  Once Sligh runs out of cards they better hope to get Cursed Scroll or a Wheel or they'll lose unless they topdeck 4 Chains and 4 Bolts.  Most Sligh decks have boosted there land from 20 to 22 and I haven't had a problem with my Sligh before when my land gets a boot from a Sinkhole, but thats just me.

[Dante]

I would side the Sinkholes out before I lost the Duresses.

Also, Keg is far superior against stompy and sligh that edict is, so if that's what you're expecting, go with Kegs vs edicts.  Even against control, you can use them to kill artifact mana or if you draw them early, you can just pump them to 5 to destroy morphling.

Dante

[Rodosti]

Quote I don't side my second Edict in, because I feel that Hymns are more important in this matchup. If I concentrate on destroying the lands, I still want to hit their hand before they get back to two Mountains and empty it themselves. That hurts more...

I do belive Hymns are much more important against Sligh than edicts, Hymns take away cards that could be used to lower your Life Total quite fast

Quote Question on siding against Stompy: Should I side out Hymns or Sinkholes? I know Stompy runs extremely low on land, but I would also like to hit their few last cards to find those creature pumpers before they do me in.

Stompy is really quite fast so unless you cast Hymn first turn, or second if you start, you really won't get the creatures, Sinkholes are much more effecttive because they can hit Stompy's one or two mana and leave them without mana for a few turns, enough to win

Quote Do I need Kegs against a full artifact deck? Last year I played Pox against it and got to see rounds 3 and 4 in the games we had.    Kegs feel a little slow on that background...

Kegs at 1 will ruin Sligh's and Stompy's days

Sligh: Pup, Cadets, Shaman, Cursed Scroll
Stompy: Elves

[Matt The Great]

Why are you siding Dystopias against Keeper? What are you afraid of, Sylvan and...the lone Compost from the board? I don't get it. You should be able to ignore Moat by virtue of your disruption (keeping them from the second, or even first, white mana).

[Magimaster]

Quote (Matt The Great @ Aug. 16 2002,15:02)Why are you siding Dystopias against Keeper? What are you afraid of, Sylvan and...the lone Compost from the board? I don't get it. You should be able to ignore Moat by virtue of your disruption (keeping them from the second, or even first, white mana).

Frankly, that doesn't always happen Matt

Siding in atleast 1 or 2 Dystopia's isnt exactly uncalled for, it's finding out what to side out.

[Hampuusi]

Morning!

I was already leaning towards keeping the Sinkholes in against Stompy, but thank you for the confirmation Rodosti. I suppose you misread the last quote... I wasn't talking about Stompy, but a "Full artifact deck". I have no idea about those decks names, i.e. which is tubbies and which are Workshops or Stackers. By surviving until rounds 3 and four against, I haven't even seen enough cards to say anything, even if I did know those decks!

MarkPharaoh - I do want to keep the Hymns in when playing against Sligh. But maybe it is wiser to keep Sinkholes than Duresses? If I have full set of hand disruption, the mid-game will be easy for Sligh. It has an empty hand and all the mana in the deck... Whereas if I kill the lands and Hymn early (to maybe kill some more lands), I get the best of both worlds. In theory.

Matt and Magimaster - The Dystopias go in because I'm more worried about CoP:Black than Moat. A few guys have Moat here, but the double-white is easy to keep off-board with Sinks & Stuff.

[Matt The Great]

Would you believe I COMPLETELY forgot CoP:Black existed?

But if you're worried about CoP:Black and not Moat, why are you taking out Masticore?\n\n

[Hampuusi]

Hi, Matt!

I have been wracking my brains trying to find something else to ditch, but no... Masticores are simply the worst card in the deck. They do have some merits against Abyss (which I don't believe anyone will play) and CoP:Black (which is only one card, that may be used). Warbeasts are better than and I can't find any place for two more of those either. I fear the almighty CoP, alright, but I'm not ready to swap my fast creatures away because of it.

Actually, I'm glad having so many artifact creatures between maindeck and sideboard. Against WW that could help. They have so much prot black stuff and CoPs come out of side... Although it takes a below-par (I'm being nice here   ) WW player to switch off his/hers disenchant arsenal, which is quite a good artillery against my Warbeasts. Weirder stuff has happened, so I just live in hope.

[Os-Vegeta]

You have Dystopia in the sb, so you can just side those in vs. WW and they can do some serious damage.  Once Dystopia hits the board, your opponent will be scrambling for a Disenchant if he doesn't have one in hand.