To splash or not to splash?

[slycaptainfox]

I've been playing stax and other prison style decks for awhile now and recently took a look at smmenen's latest article on $T4KS and decided to try it out.

So far it has been exactly what its supposed to and is fairly consistent.

One of my biggest problems beforehand was the shaky mana base of playing 4 colors in a deck playing 4 workshops.

Most of the stax decks I've seen have been playing something like 2 or 3 flooded strands and a tundra just for the addition of the not to be underestimated Balance.

It is understandable too, as balance can wreck control's entire early-mid game by unloading your hand and balancing on 1st-2nd turn.

It can also turn the game around vs. any aggro deck by balancing them to a low enough permanent count that they can no longer keep up with the wires/smokestacks.

I believe it is worth a slot in the deck and would like to hear other players'(especially smmenen's) imput.


EDIT: Fixed the typo in the topic. You're Welcome. \n\n

[David Hernandez]

Hi,

Balance is broken of course, but in Stax it loses to YawgWill and Demonic Tutor.  

There have been builds that successfully used it (see the Dulmen builds at http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=21) where YawgWill and Balance were played.

Even though i personally would love to run Balance in my build, it won't fit because my mana base is highly tuned.  Any alteration (of even 1 card or color) can ruin the mix.

For reference, here is what i am running as of today:

4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Memory Jar
1 Time Vault
(14)

1 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Triskelion
(3)

3 Meditate
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Tinker
(8)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
(2)

1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Goblin Welder
(5)

4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Badlands
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
(28) (60)

a while back, i had considered adding a single Tundra while cutting a Badlands, and adding Balance while cutting Windfall.  In testing however, it just didn't seem as consistant.  

here's another point of view:

Raven, a TMD member:

Quote I like the duleman deck because it's solid as a rock and just as consistant. It can capitolize on a opponents bad land draw with wastelands/strip mine, it has access to easy moxen destruction via 2 Karns. It can shoot down opposing welders/BoP's/Sligh Beats with reccuring Triskelion. It can also capitolize on a weakened counterspell deck after a long counter bout with a follow-up Yawgmoth's Will, or a timely Balance. And the sideboard is very solid, with added mana denile from blood moons and fire/ice just becomming a powerhouse card for this deck.

It's just so damn consistant, and has an answer for almost any threat. And it really hits multicolored power decks where they hurt, there mana base. You can really capitolize on smokestack's destruction when you take out half of your opponents permenants through the use of balance/karn/waste/strip/trisk. You find yourself useing meditate less and less. You become less dependant on smokestack with the duleman deck. A timed balance with a followed Tanglewire can be just as devistating, if not more.

It's so well rounded, and the results show that it was a problem for others to deal with. So I chose to play a more Dulemen oriented deck, it just wrecks multicolored power decks. Ducktape has to rely on a lone gorilla shaman for mox eating, and it is not reccurable through welders. Balance is also a card that is irreplaceable in my eyes.

(emphasis added by me)

this can be referenced here: http://www.themanadrain.com/cgi-bin....60;st=0

in the same thread, Toad says:

Quote I'm currently running an U/R version, with a B splash for Demonic Tutor. I've dropped W because Balance with only 1 tutor is not worth the crappy mana base.

my own testing brought me to the same conclusion--Balance doesn't fit in this deck using my build (or similar builds).

i think that part of why it doesn't work is that Balance is somewhat redundant--it will remove creatures or cards-in-hand from the opponent.  Smokestacks and Tanglewires already do that for you (regarding creatures), and with Sphere's they all work to tie up the opponents hand so that it really doesnt matter if they have cards or not.

i found that Balance can actually hurt you, and become a very dead card in your hand, if you reach turn 3 or later, because you will have more permanents in play than your opponent.

--Dave.

[slycaptainfox]

Quote  found that Balance can actually hurt you, and become a very dead card in your hand, if you reach turn 3 or later, because you will have more permanents in play than your opponent.

Isn't that the reason that balance would be so good?

Nearly all of your permanents aren't affected by balance and you will only have 1-2 lands in play leaving them with:
0-1 creatures
2-3 lands
likely 0 cards in hand

In my opinion it's the mana base that's the problem.
And finding a card to cut in its absence.

[David Hernandez]

yes, i see what you mean (about Balance being good in that situation).  I was looking at it from the standpoint of having to lose lands/Karn/Welder's/Triskelion while the opponent lost "only" his hand.

again, the Dulmen builds were successful with Balance, so there is definitely a way to run it with good effect.  However, i think that you would have to adopt a Dulmen style mana base (note that i would make room for a Mana Crypt and a Mana Vault).  You might also have to cut the Demonic Tutor to avoid color screw.  I'm not willing to do that at this point.

theoretically, if i were going to modify my build to include balance, i would remove the Windfall.  I would probably have to remove my basic Island and a Badlands in favor of a  a Tundra and a Plateu.  It could work, and there were times that i've wanted to have a Balance in hand.

you could also continue to run 1 Bloodstained Mire and 3 Polluted Delta's (like i do) since you could always go get white with them.  then you wouldn't have to worry about adding Flooded Strands.

Running Balance could work.  I think there are several very strong builds of Stax-style decks right now.  MUD (Thug and Tindemans run this), $T4KS (smmenen/toad), Stax_Remix (me and Tony Soto), DuckTape (PsyDuck), LockStock, and Dulmen all work great.

The thing about running the 4th color is that you may lose consistency, and i'm more comfortable running Tutor/YawgWill vs. Balance/YawgWill.  Just a personal play choice.

Dave.

[Smmenen]

No problem.

Balance has an amazing amount of synergy with this deck becuase you are generally low on land, high in non land, non-creature permanents, and have a few cards in hand, with relatively few creatures (if any) on the board.  Balance is an amazing card in this deck.  However, Demonic Tutor is better.  Demonic usually fetches a card that is as effective, if not more than what Balance offers.  Moreover, Yawgmoth's Will is pretty hard to ignore.

Try it if you want - there is nothing stopping you, but you'll have to change your mana base to suit it.

Steve