Goblins with a Twist

[kirdape3]

The original version of Goblins for Type One that JP built and I ran is good.  Very good.  However, it wins turn 3 and the good combo decks will win turn 2 every time.  That is the sux0r.

When whining to Azhrei on AIM, he finally said 'lol add black for Duress.'  That clicked something in my head; it'll slow down the kill a turn but have a much better shot of ensuring that I actually get that far.

Behold.

4x Goblin Lackey
4x Jackal Pup  (Goblin Vandal if the environment has a bunch of Workshop decks)
4x Goblin Cadets
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Goblin Piledriver
3x Siege-Gang Commander

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
3x Goblin Grenade
4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Ruby
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
3x Badlands
3x Mountain
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland

Sideboard: Null Rod and Pillar come in for the awful awful awful Academy matchup.  The added black just means that they literally don't ignore you and goldfish against Stick Stickly (aka you, bad Sligh player).  Game one is basically an autoloss unless your hand is the nuts turn 3 kill with Duress/Therapy backup.  Not likely.  Scald is obvious, Pillar can come in in more than one matchup (Combo along with Hulk, although they're bringing in Deeds anyways and Pillar is nummy for them), and Terminate is for the other aggro decks that 1) shouldn't exist at a high-level and 2) won't be matched by your speed except in extreme cases.

4x Null Rod
4x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Scald
4x Terminate

Blasts do not fit here.  Neither do the 'normal' Sligh cards of Cursed Scroll and Gorilla Shaman; they are too slow and you won't have that kind of mana available.  I'm still not sure if this deck will beat Burning Academy; that deck is truly scary and can win before you get a chance to Duress them once.  It should be able to handle Rector-Tendrils because at worst you put them on like 8 on your third attack phase, then they can't Bargain for enough to win with.  Other Sligh decks will get mashed; even though you have little mana they're loaded with shit cards like Ankh of Mishra and Cursed Scroll which will not be fast enough.  Suicide may well be annoying just because I don't have as much burn as I used to; 11 is enough to bash one creature reliably through discard then not anything more.  Hulk is fairly even, Keeper is decidedly in my favor (11 cards can come in from the board against them, and the maindeck's no picnic), and Monoblue/UrPhid hasn't been tested yet.

I'm pretty sure that this is the best we can do for now.  Goblins just isn't fast enough to beat the combo decks, so you have to try to disrupt them a little while retaining the best parts of your clock.\n\n

[Dave Kaplan]

Terminate over Smother ...

[kirdape3]

Derf, targeting me.  I just came with the card that sees current use in the other formats (therefore the card that I play with most often) and forgot Terminate.

[suicide_slushy]

With 19 goblins, and this being an extreamly aggressave deck, would Goblin Grenade work better than incinerate?

[Hyperion]

At the risk of stating the obvious, I would be concerned that Sligh with hand disruption in place of additional burn suffers from being less aggressive than a focused, hyperaggressive Goblin Sligh build and not as disruptive as Suicide; and as a result suffering from an identity crisis of sorts and not being as consistent as either of these decks.

How well have the theories and arguments presented here borne out in testing results?\n\n

[Magimaster]

wow I love that list

I would probably upp the Cabal-Rapeness to 4, but that's just me.

[kirdape3]

I do not feel that the added disruption knocks more than a turn off the speed.  That brings a kill to turn 4, but one that is much less susceptible to getting comboed out and/or randomly hated out of the place.  It's much faster than Suicide's average clock since they most often can either disrupt then lay beats by that point or just go 'Ritual Negator go'.  Suicide's a good deck still because the disruption is higher, but I'd rather have the fast clock plus added disruption rather than added disruption plus fast clock.

[Dave Kaplan]

What about Lava Zombie?

I definately remember winning a PS x3 draft that i got into for free since I was juding the prerelease cuz i had 4 Lava Zombies and multiple Maggot Carriers.

[kirdape3]

Kaplan: WTF?  I'm confused; either say something constructive (like Terminate over Smother) or nothing at all.  Pls tks.

[Dave Kaplan]

dude im telling u lava zombie is the way to go. he comboes with ravenous rats for REDICULOUS card advantage that surpasses that of Deep Anal into Recall. trust me

[Matt The Great]

Now all you need is Erratic Portal and you've got yourself an X-0 in the bag.

[Marco A Toso]

I like the deck! My current Type 1 deck is Goblins ("Red Stompy") and I don't like getting rolled over by the Rector-Tendrils Combo decks that are popular around here. I think a sideboard of 4 Null Rod, 4 Pyrostatic Pillar, 3 Scald, and 4 Terminate is good. Can you tell me what cards you would side in/out for the various decks that are popular in Type 1 right now?

[jpmeyer]

Quote (Hyperion @ Aug. 25 2003,18:49)At the risk of stating the obvious, I would be concerned that Sligh with hand disruption in place of additional burn suffers from being less aggressive than a focused, hyperaggressive Goblin Sligh build and not as disruptive as Suicide; and as a result suffering from an identity crisis of sorts and not being as consistent as either of these decks.

How well have the theories and arguments presented here borne out in testing results?

The problem is that the fastest Gobbo build that I've been able to make still only has a moderate turn 3 kill (as in usually turn 4 but still pretty often on turn 3) which isn't fast enough to beat Long.dec

[Os-Vegeta]

@ Kirdape3:

This build looks quite interesting, and I really do like it better than your mono-red one.  Just a few questions:

1) Though you are running nonbasics in your build now, I'm curious as to how much you miss PoP.

2) Regarding the sideboard, have you given Chains of Mephistopheles a try at all in the Scald slot?  If so, what made you choose Scald over Chains?

[Hyperion]

Quote The problem is that the fastest Gobbo build that I've been able to make still only has a moderate turn 3 kill (as in usually turn 4 but still pretty often on turn 3) which isn't fast enough to beat Long.dec

I understand the theory behind this build because it was clearly presented it the opening post. However, I was asking how well the theory translated into practice and more specifically, what his testing results were with this build since I didn't see any presented (if I missed them, please correct me).

The theory is all well and good but even kirdape3 noted that "I'm still not sure if this deck will beat Burning Academy; that deck is truly scary and can win before you get a chance to Duress them once."  Given that the hand disruption seens to be mainly intended for the combo matchup, if even that doesn't do the job it doesn't seem to be worth the loss in consistency and potential weakening of other matchups. You both seem like strong advocates of this approach, so I was simply asking: does it works like you intended it to?\n\n

[kirdape3]

You don't AUTOLOSE now.  One Duress sometimes can break up the functionality of a weaker hand on their part.  Obviously a Therapy or two following that can't hurt if they just don't go off.

Also, the black splash actually increases the lethality against control because while the window of vulnerability is longer, you can keep them from using the things that would break you.

[Tristal]

Have you found Jackal Pups to be superior to Raging Goblins in this build?  I play a similar Lackey deck in T1 for fun (No black, as casual players don't typically play Bargain decks) and Raging Goblin REALLY screws up people's math with Piledrivers; also sack-able to Siege-Gang.

Consider Reckless Charge over Incinerate, too!  Three spare mana, throw out a hasted 4+(often 8 and more) power attacker in the form of Piledriver.  Real fun stuff.

No Fireblasts?

[Dave Kaplan]

Jackal Pup > Raging Goblin
Reckless Charge > Incinerate

[Marco A Toso]

kirdape3: Don't feel like sharing what cards you would side in/out...?

[Marco A Toso]

59 cards... what's the 60th card? I think the mana base looks a little shaky and could use another basic mountain, Badlands, or basic swamp. Do you have enough black sources to cast Duress or Cabal Therapy reliably on turn one?

[wuaffiliate]

eww @ basic swamp

[kirdape3]

The 'new and improved' list is in the original post.