Burning Wish Sligh

[Radagast]

Firstly, a list is worth a thousand words:

        4 Goblin Cadets
        4 Mogg Fanatic
        4 Goblin Lackey
        4 Mogg Flunkies
        4 Goblin Piledriver
        4 Goblin Grenade
        4 Reckless Charge
        4 Duress
        3 Cabal Therapy
        4 Burning Wish
        1 Demonic Consultation
        6 Mountain
        4 Badlands
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        4 Wooded Foothills
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Jet
SB:  4 Chalice of the Void
SB:  4 Pulverize
SB:  1 Meltdown
SB:  1 Arc Lightning
SB:  1 Primitive Justice
SB:  1 Firebolt
SB:  1 Decompose
SB:  1 Reanimate
SB:  1 Cabal Therapy

The basic concept of the deck is to have a fast aggro deck backed by black disruption and given additional flexibility with Burning Wish. I chose goblins here because it's faster and fits the mana base better than other things (I need to have two Mountains at all times to Pulverize with).

Random notes:
- I'm sideboarding a Therapy as opposed to a Duress because a) first turn Duress is better than first turn Therapy; b) it's faster to Wish for a Therapy after you've seen their hand with Duress than to Wish for Duress and Therapy afterwards.
- No Lotus because I don't think it fits the deck. Feel free to test it out, though.
- Chalice is in the sideboard against combo - drop it first turn for zero and you've basically won. There are other options like Null Rod, but those are basically just slower.
- Meltdown is for moxen.
- Primitive Justice is for when you have one artifact you have to kill which is too large for Meltdown but you don't want to sacrifice your mana base to Pulverize it.
- Reanimate is a fun card. You can bring back your own creatures if you need them for whatever reason, but its best use is stealing opposing Welders, which is not pleasant for the artifact deck.\n\n

[Crater Hellion]

It's a cool idea.. like wicked cool, but it's painfully slow. I predict that you will end up finishing games with a burning wish in your hand every time you draw one though :/

[PsychoCid]

You started to say 'the basic concept of...' but ended up saying EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

You also failed to give us any reason to believe this isn't a complete waste of time.

Frankly, I don't see these types of posts to be any more worthwhile that posts that contain a decklist and nothing more.

[Radagast]

(Random note: You might want to add a Chainer's Edict to the sideboard to get rid of Togs.)

Quote Frankly, I don't see these types of posts to be any more worthwhile that posts that contain a decklist and nothing more.

I suppose you may be right about that. This is probably due to my assumption of people possessing sufficient intelligence to comprehend and evaluate a decklist by themselves. If they can't, I frankly don't see it as being worthwhile to babysit them through it - what's the point? I have more rewarding things to spend my time on.

Quote You started to say 'the basic concept of...' but ended up saying EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

There's a difference? To be more clear, the original purpose of the deck was to make a viable aggro deck that isn't just a mindless pile of bad creatures and hate. (Which is not equivalent with what the deck is, ie the concept of it, though I should have stated the purpose as well.)

Quote You also failed to give us any reason to believe this isn't a complete waste of time.

See the above "sufficient intelligence to comprehend and evaluate a decklist" part. Decide for yourself. Here's what I see as its (dis)advantages as compared to other, similar decks (I notice it could also be fairly usable as a budget deck - that wasn't the purpose, but so much the better):
+ It's something other than a mindless pile of bad creatures and hate.
+ It has access to four Pulverizes starting from game one. This looks to be huge in the new environment.
+ Burning Wish lets it cut down on the (potentially) dead or not-as-useful-in-certain-matchups cards which are the norm in these types of decks. It also gains access to a lot of options and flexibility which wouldn't even be imaginable in them.
+ It has fast disruption in Duress and Therapy.
- It may be somewhat slower than Red Stompy and Suicide due to more disruption in the first case and no Rituals in the second. It makes up by having more disruption in the first case and Pulverize in the second.
- No Wastelands. This isn't so much a drawback as it is an oversight (I completely forgot about them when "building" the deck, inasmuch as you can do that without physical cards). If you feel the mana base can support them, by all means, add them.

Quote It's a cool idea.. like wicked cool, but it's painfully slow. I predict that you will end up finishing games with a burning wish in your hand every time you draw one though :/

How/why? There are very few decks where none of Pulverize, Meltdown, Cabal Therapy, and Firebolt/Arc Lightning are useful (side note: if anyone knows of better options against creatures, do tell). As for the speed, goblins are not known for being sluggish, and I have four of each Grenades and Charges to back them up. The one issue might be that they are slow clocks on their own, which is why I'm thinking about other options such as Negators or Flesh Reavers.

[Crater Hellion]

okay that wasn't the point. Burning wish is too slow for a goblin sligh deck, which is what the core of your deck is. It would be better, IMO, to just win fast and skip the wish thing, which is particularly easy with goblin sligh.\n\n

[Radagast]

If it is (and I'm not entirely sure), then the creature base needs to change and not the Burning Wish, which was the whole point of the deck in the first place. I'm open to suggestions in that regard.

[Os-Vegeta]

A few things:  

Quote I suppose you may be right about that. This is probably due to my assumption of people possessing sufficient intelligence to comprehend and evaluate a decklist by themselves. If they can't, I frankly don't see it as being worthwhile to babysit them through it - what's the point? I have more rewarding things to spend my time on.

You really do have to explain yourself more.  For us to take what you're saying seriously here, especially since it's a new idea, you have to have a lot of information accompanying your ideas to back them up.  In your initial post, you haven't said much more than "I think this works and here's the cards that I think will make it work."  Well WHY?  I could (and I will) point out a couple big problems that you need to do some explaining for here, and I'm wondering if you even took these into consideration when you tried this build out.  In order to have a productive discussion about a deck like this, especially since it isn't an upper-tier deck, we need lots and lots of detail.  

I really have difficulty seeing how a Sligh deck, especially with the manabase it has right now, can handle both the large mana investment required to use Burning Wish and the mana investment required to keep the Goblin threats flowing.  

In addition to this, your only way of victory is through the goblins.  Many times it's the burn that will cinch the game for you.  I'm really curious as to how much of an impact not having burn has caused.

[Methuselahn]

A deck just like this just won the monthly power tourny for an Emerald here in Minnesota.  There was a competitive field of 38.

The differences were MD Goblin Recruiter and Siege Gangers.  I wouldn't be so quick to call this deck a complete waste of time.  For a B/R Burning Wish deck, this is the way to go.  With Goblins.

I had tried B/R wish with a more mono black base which didn't work out for me.  Talking with bebe a while back, he had mentioned that the germans had some success with gobbo-wish.  I think this deck, which has been mistakenly been grouped with 'sligh', can do well.   Keep working on this deck Radagast.

[bebe]

That is correct. ASnd the deck used Siege Gang Commanders nad Goons with a black splash and wishes. You have a good memory. We left it alone becuase inthe end the German meta is just so combo oriented we needed a different approach. We decided to experiment with a Bloody Sui instead that was metagamed for combo and Stax.
That said I also testeda Burning Wish deck with Dicemanx a while ago - he quite liked the idea - as a test in TO. It was mono-red though - which I think for a mixed meta is stronger.
I like the idea of combo-gobbo with Burning Wishes but it needs more testing before it is ready to be unveiled.

[kirdape3]

This deck cannot possibly beat Burning Academy.  They'll win before you can cast much of anything, even with Duress and Cabal Therapy maindecked.  Losing to one of the Big Three is bad enough, but worse problems ensue.

You're still not liable to be beating up either Welder MUD or Hulk with R/b Goblins.  Hulk basically can ignore everything but the degenerate Siege-Gang/Piledriver start, and MUD will just have you locked out by a Sphere or Wire/Smokestack.  You just can't stop them since you don't run enough disruption to do anything meaningful.  So they can goldfish you, and their kill isn't so much slower than your undisrupted one so anything they do will make them faster on the kill than you can be.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Kird, I respect you man, but please read what the calace of the void does games 2 and 3 VS Burning Acadamy.  It is an auto win if in your opening hand, as the deck packs little or no artifact distruction, but I am sure that is going to change post mirroden.  Hulk seems to be a fairly harder matchup, but if we can, say, disrupt their draw engine (First Duress should go for an intuition!) it shouldn't be to bad.

4 Pulverize are for welder MUD, with seven post sideboard in order to try and make the match as easy as possible without giving up the goblin tempo.

[PsychoCid]

Warning.


As much as I'd like the world to run that way, Rad, it doesn't, around here.  Keep things clean and explain everything that isn't 'derf.'  You went far enough to explain that you used goblins in a Goblin deck, so you're running yourself down with your own words.\n\n

[Mordecai]

For anti-creature sorcery burn to wish for, Spitting Earth is pretty good.  It gets fat pretty easy if you've got a decent stash of mountains.

[Dante]

Quote (Mordecai @ Sep. 16 2003,09:50)For anti-creature sorcery burn to wish for, Spitting Earth is pretty good.  It gets fat pretty easy if you've got a decent stash of mountains.

I've you've got a decent stash of mountains, you're probably not going to win the game.....I mean even TnT is going to spit out a 1st turn su-chi or juggernaut, spitting earth will be 3-4 turns to kill either of those.  Since you've got black, if you're worried about fat creatures, what are you afraid of that smother or artifact destruction can't take care of??

Dante

[Radagast]

Quote I'm wondering if you even took these into consideration when you tried this build out.

I have. I didn't see whether they were even an issue and if so any clear way to fix them, and as such decided to not mention it until I find out.

Quote I really have difficulty seeing how a Sligh deck, especially with the manabase it has right now, can handle both the large mana investment required to use Burning Wish and the mana investment required to keep the Goblin threats flowing.

Well, it's hard to judge mana bases based purely on theory. I haven't done testing with this asides from some solitaire to make sure there aren't any horrible glaring problems with it (I'm not saying it isn't necessary - I would really like to, but lack the amount of time/internet access necessary to do so. Hopefully this will change when I get broadband fairly soon). If the mana base is insufficient, then the solution is (naturally) to increase it, though in solitaire I haven't had problems. Also, the plan is to drop your goblins first and use the Wish as a cleanup card to take care of anything dangerous your opponent does (or alternately to deliver the killing blow, if they don't do much).

Quote In addition to this, your only way of victory is through the goblins.  Many times it's the burn that will cinch the game for you.  I'm really curious as to how much of an impact not having burn has caused.

This bothers me somewhat as well (though I do have Reckless Charge (which can be flashbacked, fairly conveniently) and Goblin Grenade), and is why I'm not entirely sure goblins is the way to go with this. Again, I have yet to do testing, and will know more once I do.

Quote The differences were MD Goblin Recruiter and Siege Gangers.

If *that* was fast enough, I can't see how this isn't - though the thing is, I can't quite believe how that could possibly have been fast enough, either, and as such, I'm withholding judgment.

Quote Hulk basically can ignore everything but the degenerate Siege-Gang/Piledriver start

That could easily be an issue, yes - in gunning for the artifact decks, there wasn't much room left against Hulk. We'll see. Though I'd think it's still a better matchup than what traditional aggro has. (Also, do note the complete and utter absence of Siege Gangers in the deck.)

Quote You just can't stop them since you don't run enough disruption to do anything meaningful.

Well, certainly more than the usual sligh, for one (and before you mention Shamans, note the Meltdown in the sideboard), and it's not *that* much less than most other decks, either. While it wouldn't be a bad thing to turn the Grenades/Charges into more disruption and get a faster creature base, at that point, you basically have Suicide, and Pulverize isn't very splashable... is it?  You can run 4 Badlands and up to 12 fetchlands to fetch them, though, after all. Seems like an interesting idea to try.\n\n