White Weenie after Mirrodin

[Bastian]

Thanks Zherbus, I really needed a slap back to reality.

I have been thinking as of lately to test the deck just against what I'm expecting to fight, but there are always tier 2 decks that make a comeback. Shouldn't we have those in consideration as well? TNT was just an example...

Either way thanks...

[Bastian]

I didn't know if I should open a thread about post-Mirrodin White Weenie, but since this one's still open and not so old, I think it can be here instead of opening another thread to clutter the forum.

(perhaps I could have edited my former post to add what I have to say, so I ask the mods to please not be pissed about double posting).

White Weenie/red

1) The first playtest version of the deck packed Land Tax-Scroll Rack. Then Scroll Rack became mostly a dead card because it’s a 2cc artifact that won’t do much without tax in play and working and for the same cost I’d rather have another threat.

So I took scroll racks out. With the low ammount of basic lands the deck uses using Land Tax without Scroll Rack became meaningless and so I replaced them with Tithes.

Here’s the deck:

2 Maze of Ith
8 Plains
4 Plateau
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

2 Devout Witness
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Savannah Lions
4 Silver Knight
4 Soltari Priest
2 Whipcorder
3 Weathered Wayfarer

3 Tithe
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Bonesplitter
4 Empyrial Plate

SB:
3 Blood Moon
2 Aura of Silence
2 Powder Keg
3 Dust to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
4 Chalice of the Void

2) There is another version I’m testing at the same time, with the tax-rack combo so I can compare and see which works best. So far this hasn’t been bad, but tax doesn’t feel ok unless you draw into scroll rack. Another question is: are Bonesplitters really necessary? Equipping a single 2-power creature doubles its power. The artifact’s great, but is it worth it? I’m still testing it.

2 Maze of Ith
8 Plains
4 Plateau
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

2 Devout Witness
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Savannah Lions
4 Silver Knight
4 Soltari Priest
2 Whipcorder
3 Weathered Wayfarer

3 Land Tax
2 Scroll Rack
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Empyrial Plate


So far I’m sure about the following:

In a post-Mirrodin environment where Chalice of the Void will become a predominant card, Devout Witness and Gorilla Shamans are essential.
Empyrial Plates are gamebreaking and can end the game faster. They’re invaluable in any new WW.

Back to Basics: monowhite White Weenie

For the purists which still care about monowhite WW, such as me...

Last Crusade.dec
16 Plains
2 Maze of Ith
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl

2 Devout Witness
4 Savannah Lions
4 Soltari Priest
4 Soltari Monk
4 Icatian Javalineers
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 White Knight

3 Land Tax
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Aura of Silence
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Empyrial Plate

SB:
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Powder Keg
2 Sacred Ground
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Dust to Dust

The deck needs to be prepared for Chalice of the Void, which will become huge post-Mirrodin. Packing Chalices allows you to stop artifact mana, if played early, and even Chalice of the Void. On a worst case scenario the opponent manages to drop an early Chalice but you can prevent him from dropping more by playing a Chalice as well.

Besides Chalice of the Void, other ways the deck has to deal with opposing decks using it are Devout Witness, Seals of Cleansing and Aura of Silence, allowing for different threats which can be dropped before a Chalice and which cost different costs so as to not be too hurt by the first Chalice which should be set at 2.

Since the deck is probably going to be able to deal monored now (chalice for 1 shuts down sligh) White Knight becomes better than Silver Knight since there’s a possibility that monoblack will become better with the addition of the new artifact.

With all these changes, and considering that the best aggro decks are packing artifact creatures or that some of the most dangerous creatures hanging around, Psychatog, Volrath’s Shapeshifter (usually copying Phage or Dreadnought) or Phyrexian Dreadnought can be easily dealt with Maze of Ith, Swords was be pushed into the SB.

Thoughts?

[Ferrismonk]

I think you're going the right way with the WWr deck, but I would still up the threat density and speed.  The best way to do this is simply by adding more red.  I suggest the following changes:

-1 Tithe
-4 Bonesplitter
-4 Empyrial Plate (I admit this hurts to take out)
-2 Undiscovered Paradise
-2 Whipcorder
-1 Soltari Priest
-2 Plains

+4 Jackal Pup
+4 Goblin Legionairre
+4 Lighning Bolt
+2 Chain Lightning
+2 Mountain

That's a fairly rough change, but I think it'll speed up the deck.  I think you had too many mana sources, especially when nothing really costs over 2 mana.  22 mana lands are too many, I left 20 in the deck, but I think that may still be a bit too high.  The empyrial Plate is the card I think I'd most like to keep in, but it is not a threat and equipment is fairly slow.  I'd also like to keep out artifacts so you can run Null Rod or Dampling Matrix in the sideboard.  

-Travis-

[waSP]

Ferrismonk, you're suggesting a different style of White Weenie which has been pursued near its exhaustion.  People who want to play more agressively can go back to those builds and do their own builds.  Currently the focus of the discussion is how new cards fit into the deck.  I'm worried you didn't test Bastian's build or you're just trying to remake sligh.

Equipment is the reason WW might make a comeback to some tier of the metagame.  Running a bunch of threats that don't do enough isn't a very good strategy.  If they don't deal with your 4 threats they lose.  But they can deal with them with one large creature.  Bastian's build overcomes that weakness giving it superior size against all creatures except Psychatog and Dreadnought.  Making your threats better isn't a bad thing.  It also gives an explosive quality to the deck it never had.  Bastian's build can goldfish faster than yours, which is crazy since you're running burn.

@Bastian, why not use Mox Diamond.  It rarely hurts you.  I absolutely love it (in addition to Lotus Petal) in this deck.  The speed boost can be vital sometimes.

[Bastian]

Wasp: I'm not using Mox Diamond because ever since, back when I worked on monowhite White Weenie, everytime I got I got screwed up > I would go diamond, discard plains and then on turn 2 no lands! And this with 16 plains and 4 taxes!!! So I prefered to take out the diamond. For the same reason I sometimes don't pack petal...

It might make a comeback though, since it's more permanent than petal is.

Equipment is essential and the post-mirrodin environment is all about how to fit new cards into ww and make it even better as wasp said, but sometimes I feel that I could be packing a couple more threats... Aura of Silence feels like a good addition to the maindeck. Even if it costs 3 it acts as a couple of one-sided spheres of resistance vs stax and tnt. It's pretty disruptive I'd say...