Article -- Mirrodin Artifacts, Part I

[Rakso]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5812

Quote Chalice:

Hoses entire archetypes
Can be played in any deck to shut down at least combo and wiener aggro
Hoses budget archetypes worst and some powered archetypes least, by nature
These are three very weighty bullet points, and when you say "entire archetypes," you're talking about radical changes to the metagame.

[rozetta]

I really enjoyed this article. I feel bad now - I hope my starting that rant didn't make you publish this article prematurely.

I still wonder myself  if the chalice is _really_ as bad as you made it out to be. I actually laughed audibly at the colourful way you slagged it off so much (it was quite impressive!) However, I don't see any harm in taking out random-win cheese decks from the metagame (sligh and certain combo decks). I, for one, would prefer  the DCI to not keep restricting cards straight off the production-line as they did for the previous expansion. If they're gonna be watching these new cards, they need to look at the situation as a whole and it seems as though Workshop might be something to keep an eye on also - I'd have little doubt it get's more powerful with some of these new artifacts.

Anyway, can't wait for the second part of this (and for that matter, Smmenen's articles).

[Bastian]

I loved the article, mainly because Oscar wrote everything I already felt about the Chalice. EVERYTHING without exception. From the way it can affect budget players, to the randomness it adds to the format, to the very strict possibility of banning it instead of restricting it.

I know it seems harsh, but he's right about the degree of randomness it adds. Sure that sometimes we draw a god hand and are able to win the game because of that. But what are the odds of drawing a god hand against the odds of drawing a single card in the beggining hand?

Great article rakso:)

[dandan]

Another good article, keep them coming.

I felt bad after writing in a Sligh thread that it wasn't worth putting in any development work in, as Chalice making Sligh a completely lost cause (not that it was exactly tier one before Mirrodin). I feel a little better that I am not 'crying wolf' and merely lacking the ability to adapt.

On the other hand, Keeper players the world over must have thought it was Christmas to get 2 flexible cards that can both be used by Keeper but not against Keeper (at least not very well).

P.S. The link not going to a man's anus was also a bonus.

Edit: Forum changed to thread, a Sligh forum would be a quiet place from the next few months...\n\n

[MoreFling]

omg! you write in a sligh forum?

omfg! THERE ACTUALLY IS A SLIGH FORUM?!

[Triple_S]

My issue with the column is how Chrome Mox is described as being a piece to fuel combo acceleration but then describes Chalice as the ultimate tool to shut down several key combo decks.  Consistency is nice.  Another inconsistency is the line about remaining silent about Chalice until after the prereleases
(which clearly didn't happen) so people could pick up 4 x Chalice, then mentioning how he wouldn't mind seeing it banned.  All of this after mentioning how players were screwed on the pre-emptive restriction of Mind's Desire after they had bought or traded for 4 x of them.  Consistency is nice.

[Bastian]

Quote omfg! THERE ACTUALLY IS A SLIGH FORUM?!

If there's a White Weenie forum as well, I'm there:D

[Jacob Orlove]

Heh. I so called that paragon NDA last week.

Nice article, but I really don't think you should be as aggressive in suggesting that certain cards get restricted. Give the environment some time to adapt, and then we'll see what's necessary.

[Dancing Joker]

Words cannot describe how great this was. I'd have to say it's just part of a balanced diet of Type I articles that Rakso has done. Missing out on this one would be a huge mistake, much like skipping breakfast.

[dtower]

This article was excellent, pointing out the possible mistake that was Chalice. I wish there was more consistency in Rakso's opinions as I don't believe a well balanced article should constantly ignore or contradict itself.
  I can see Chalice needing restriction or for people to pull their heads out of their arses and be forced to adapt to a card that can possibly single handedly shake up the format.  
  Oh. You know what Chalice also reminds me of, a cerial bowl. However, I'd be afraid to see what said bowl was filled with if it was filled with this article.

[AlwaysOath]

@dtower: What the hell?

Anyway, I enjoyed rakso's article, as usual. Keep up the good work.  

[K-Run]

Great article, as usual. But still, I disagree about Chalice being the format's funeral.

This is what I think about Chalice :

Quote The (great) thing about this new card is that it attacks not only power (this is the new Blood Moon) but also a whole deckbuilding philosophy : redundancy.

By fighting redundancy, you're fighting consistency. By fighting the consistency of a deck, you reduce that deck's effectiveness.

So redundant decks are getting weaker... Is that a bad thing? (Hint : it's not.)

***

In this situation, people concerned by this card have 3 choices :

1) Intelligence : You design your deck with (at-this-moment) weaker cards so Chalice doesn't kill you (ex.: Paragon's Keeper's mana base including basic lands to survive Blood Moon).

2) Guts : You keep all the best cards in your deck and try to win before opponent plays the hoser (ex: no basic lands vs Blood Moon).

3) Loser : You whine enough so the hoser is restricted/banned (ex : Entomb. Err...).

***

The guys who take advantage of this card :

- Workshop : their acceleration comes from a land, not affected by Chalice in any way.
- Control : They can counter a 4 cc artifact. They play higher cc. Less mindless aggro to worry about.
- Green : Uncounterable critters are back in business.

The losers :

- Mindless aggro : At least they can still try option #2.
- "academy-like" combo : They can now be killed on first turn too.

\n\n

[Razor]

Challice truly is the latest of Wizard's published mistakes.  I posted this here a week ago in the Sligh thread:

Quote  Posted: Sep. 17 2003,15:21    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Rant: ON]

I agree that the new Challice makes it all but impossible for Aggro decks to even safely play 1, or 2 casting cost spells.

Mind you, if Wizards had restricted Mana Drain by now these same poor decks could run a proper mana curve including and upwards spells of 1, or 2 mana!  As it is Mana Drain utterly forces Aggro decks to run cheap spells while at the same time cards like Keg and now Challice prevent them from running cheaper spells; a lose-lose situation I suspect.

[Rant: OFF]

[dtower]

I've always felt that if I want to play Sligh or other mindless, stupid decks, I'd play another extended or t2. Boo-Hoo, another card that wrecks aggro. Personally I see the further death of aggro as a good thing, if it really was the death of it.
  I seriously doubt cheap beats will die. They aren't top tier now and probably will never be, but that doesn't stop people from playing them or finding some way to make them tier 2. Wasn't this whole rant done when Keg came out?

[Bastian]

If I was you I'd think twice about talking about budget decks and players. Budget players probably make more than half the players who play this format simply because just how many persons in the world have access to full sets of power?

I think that what's in question here is wether or not these decks will be more or less viable, but wether the players will give up on a format that becomes unplayable to them, and that matters a lot!

Quote Wasn't this whole rant done when Keg came out?

I wouldn't know that, since around that time I wasn't so inside type 1 as I am now, but a keg is a one-shot effect, not a permanent one, so it really doesn't deserve being compared to something like the Chalice.

What I think is, unlike I did at the beggining, is that the Chalice deserves a chance to be tested and proven a bad card for the format before it is restricted. We can't really really prove how bad this card is before it's actually played and proven broken.

What I fear the most is that this card will just be restricted. "Just" because getting a card with such a powerful effect is something that would deserve, I think, being banned.

But, let's wait to see...\n\n

[dtower]

Quote (Bastian @ Sep. 24 2003,17:14)If I was you I'd think twice about talking about budget decks and players. Budget players probably make more than half the players who play this format simply because just how many persons in the world have access to full sets of power?

I'm a type 1 player, aren't I supposed to be elitist?

 In all seriousness, I've never seen an irl enviroment that wasn't either mainly budget or fairly evenly mixed. The people with power are always going to have the advantage as long as they are competent. All Chalice means is nonpowered , "cheap beats", players are going to have to adapt the same way powered players have had to adapt to cards like Price of Progress, Back to Basics and other junk that randomly smacks them.
 Congrats, now another large part of the player base has to run anti hate hate. You should feel special. If you didn't notice, Chalice also neuters a lot of fully powered decks too.

[Bastian]

Quote If you didn't notice, Chalice also neuters a lot of fully powered decks too.

Of course it does, but to be able to pay enough mana to fill the chalice with that many counters you need to be running a fair ammount of power yourself.

In a budget deck chalice can only hope to be drawn in the early game before the opponent starts playing several moxes.
Otherwise it's powered players that gain with the printing of the chalice, not the other way around, and between them, it's workshop decks that win more than other decks.

I think that the pre-Mirrodin environment is healthy. And we have workshops unrestricted in this healthy environment. Let's hope that the Chalice won't be one more reason for them to restrict the workshop again.\n\n

[Gabethebabe]

Good article Rakso.

I don´t quite agree with all the whining about the distortion of the format that everybody does though. Let´s wait and see what happens.

Also, I remember in the masques block and Invasion that everyone was whining about how few cards in the expansions are playable in T1. Now that we do get cards in T1 everybody is whining again. There can only be one conclusion: people like to whine.

Oh, Rakso, would it be possible to write an article that includes the word Wizards, but does not include the word "Crack" ? You´re a writer and I would expect you to find more diverse ways of explaining what you think of WotC R&D. This "crack" thing is getting quite old.

[Equal Damage]

Indeed a very good article...

I completely agree that we truly need to pay a little more attention to the budget player.  They are commonly the kids who liked the game enough to expand their vision past type 2 and have been around to drive the price of the precious 9 up.  But now that its up, and they may not be easily able to at least pretend to compete in type 1, will they bother at all?

Umm, powered players need the hosing, its not like you all were losing to scrubby decks before this was it?  If so, well...

But I agree, this is a wait and see card.  I will wait and see it restricted, so that keeper players will be the only ones playing with it and it become another after thought like entomb or crop rotation etc etc etc...

[Toad]

Quote Oh, and you might want to e-mail the DCI and have Mishra's Workshop restricted, too. This set broke the camel's back.

I have nothing against people who ask for Mishra's Worskhop restriction as long as they give good arguments to justify their call. You're supposed to write in order to give your thoughts about the metagame, not to support your own propaganda. Nothing in your article explains your point of view about the Workshop. And I'm not even mentionning how you proudly shown us how you can own Stax with Keeper in your last column.

That being said, nice article.

[Zherbus]

Amen, Toad.

Especially given your past record in regards to restrictions (non-basic land hosers comes to mind), I would have to say some serious data needs to be presented before anything gets restricted. Probably something more substantial than pointing out that Mirrodin has good artifacts to play with. You can't just throw the word 'restrict' out in the air like that; you need to see if the metagame fixes itself after it breaks.

[Burntgerbil]

not that it is a huge deal, but will a chalice set at 0 stop morphs too ?  I believe I saw awhile back that their CCC was 0 not 3....

[Jacob Orlove]

Quote (Burntgerbil @ Sep. 29 2003,09:51)not that it is a huge deal, but will a chalice set at 0 stop morphs too ?  I believe I saw awhile back that their CCC was 0 not 3....

This should be in the rules mill, but yes, since their CMC is 0, chalice will stop them.