Goblin Charbelcher

[Terevaune]

Me and friend were discussing a way to abuse the charblecher and see if it would work.  So far, here is what we came up with.

4 Volcanic Island
R Tolarian Academy
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
1 Plateau

4 Force of will
R mana Vault
R Demonic Tutor
R Mox Diamond
R Voltaic Key
R Grim Monolith
R Mana Crypt
3 Chrome mox
R Wheel of Fortune
3 Fabricate
R Demonic Consultation
2 mana Severance
4 Burning Wish
R Black Lotus
4 Goblin Charbelcher
R Mox Emerald
R Mox Jet
R Mox Ruby
R mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Thirst for Knowledge
R Sol Ring
R Ancestral Recall
R Time Walk
R Timetwister
4 Thoughtcast

Tentative SB
4 Defense Grid
3 Duress
R Windfall
R Mind's Desire
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Tendrils of Agony
1 Vindicate
R Tinker
1 Fabricate
1 Mana Severance

So Far, aside from the fact that this gets utterly wrecked by a chalice or sphere of resistance, it's been pretty good at pulling off turn 2-4 kills, but it stalls alot and sometimes has mana issues.  It also seems to just be inferior to long.dec, but my friend really wants to use charbelcher, and he does not have workshops.

One other thing we had discussed was cutting burning wishes and putting tinker, will, windfall and vindicate main.

[Razor]

Parfait can abuse Goblin Charbelcher nicely:

//NAME: Parfait with G.C. v.1.1
//2003-Septembre-21
//
//Mana: 19
9 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal
0 Mana Crypt
//
//Other: 41
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Reaping the Rewards [imprintable]
4 Argivian Find
4 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aura of Silence
2 Humility
2 Story Circle
2 Blood Moon
2 Goblin Charbelcher [Primary Kill]
1 Soldevi Digger [Secondary Kill]
1 Moat
1 Ivory Mask
1 Replenish
1 Zuran Orb
0 Tormod's Crypt
0 Grindstone
0 Tithe [imprintable]
0 E.Lens
0 Sacred Mesa
0 Isochron Scepter

In addition to the varied kill cards available to Parfait players (ie.Goblin Charbelcher and Sacred Mesa) another variation will emerge.  Some versions will continue to run enchantments with which to break Replenish, while others will opt to run more instants with which to break Isochron Scepter - recursive Abeyance, anyone?

The Goblin Charbelcher version seems the more likely of the two to employ Isochron Scepter over Replenish; whereas the Sacred Mesa version will most likely to stick with Replenish over I.Scepter given that it's primary kill card (S.M.) is Replenishable.

It is likely that Extraplanar Lens + Snow-Covered Plains will be abused in versions which continue to run Sacred Mesa.\n\n

[kl0wn]

Quote (Razor @ Oct. 17 2003,22:46)It is likely that Extraplanar Lens + Snow-Covered Plains will be abused in versions which continue to run Sacred Mesa.

I don't get it. How does Extraplanar Lens interact with Snow-Covered lands differently than the regular kind?

[Phyrexius]

Quote (kl0wn @ Oct. 18 2003,09:36)

Quote (Razor @ Oct. 17 2003,22:46)It is likely that Extraplanar Lens + Snow-Covered Plains will be abused in versions which continue to run Sacred Mesa.

I don't get it. How does Extraplanar Lens interact with Snow-Covered lands differently than the regular kind?

Your opponent is probably not playing Snow-Covered Plains(Not that anyone plays Plains, but still ), so he won't get extra mana from the Lens.

[kl0wn]

Quote (Phyrexius @ Oct. 18 2003,01:02)Your opponent is probably not playing Snow-Covered Plains(Not that anyone plays Plains, but still ), so he won't get extra mana from the Lens.

Ah, so it's tech for the mirror then. That ranks quite high on the list of impractical Magic theory.

Thanks for uh...clearing that up...

[Blofeld]

A friend of mine (Larz_dk) has been tinkering with the Charbelcher/Mana Severance version as well.
Our testing showed that this IS a viable deck. It isn't as broken and fast as Long.dec, but is more durable. Long has 1 or 2 chances to make enough Storm spells to "go off", while Belcher/Severance can play an early Belcher and "fire" many times, chipping away at life totals and creatures.

It sacrifices speed for staying power. 1 activation is usually enough to win when mana severance resolves though, and turn 1-2 kills are still possible.

I'll try to make him post his latest build, when I see him...

[Mykeatog]

Quote (kl0wn @ Oct. 18 2003,01:35)

Quote (Phyrexius @ Oct. 18 2003,01:02)Your opponent is probably not playing Snow-Covered Plains(Not that anyone plays Plains, but still ), so he won't get extra mana from the Lens.

Ah, so it's tech for the mirror then. That ranks quite high on the list of impractical Magic theory.

Thanks for uh...clearing that up...

BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Man, that was some funny shit.

Kl0wn for president.

[Brendan]

Except... it has nothing to do with the mirror.

[Gzeiger]

The Lens says name, so it doesn't boost Tundras that control decks might be running, nor a potential FEB Savannah. Snow-covered is tech only for the mirror or WW.

[Radagast]

Since I assume the point of the deck is the Charbelcher and not the other crap that was thrown in, how about a more controllish version with Burning Wish and Severance in the side? Charbelcher is still pretty good at killing random critters, and wishing for Severance to win out of nowhere could be pretty good (without the drawback of having the Severances maindeck, as they're not too useful a lot of the time). The biggest obstacle is that Charbelcher costs four, and three to activate, so you need some kind of acceleration - Drain, Workshop, Ritual, or whatever (jewelry by itself probably isn't enough).

[Larz_dk]

So - the secret is out

Yes, I've created a "combo" deck with Charbelcher - Actually, i'm tinkering with several builds - but I 'spose I can share a little tech - never hurt me before - But I'll probably run into a flurry of Null Rods next time I go to a tournament. The first variant is all about speed, not looking back and praying your opponent has decided against Force of Will.
This was my initial build, before i began tweaking - the first deck i ran into was Fishies - which is basicly a bye for the fishplayer...

Lands:
4 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Glimmervoid (Gemstone Mine, whatever

Mana 'n stuff:
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
4 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
4 Dark Ritual

Combo:
3 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Mana Severance

Stuff:
1 Mind's Desire
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Timetwister
1 Memory Jar
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Necropotence
1 Time Spiral
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Accumulated Knowledge

I strongly advice against running this version of the deck, as it is brutally slaughtered by most decks out there. The Accumulateds are way too slow, and should be replaced by something like Tainted Pact. The Chrome Moxen works well, but should likely be Lion's Eyes, enabling a faster combo.
I handed the deck over to MoreFling something like 2 weeks ago, and he's got a pretty neat version - although to me it just looks like the old UB trix deck with another kill :-p
I doubt that this sort of deck should be played as a control deck, as Charbelcher just begs to be abused as fast as possible for the kill.

Right now - my version of the deck looks like this:

Lands (9)
4 Fetchlands
4 Seas
1 Academy

Mana (
7 SoLoMox
1 Petal
1 Vault
1 Crypt
4 LED
4 Dark Ritual

Combo:
3 Charbelcher
2 Mana Severance

Hang-in-there-spells
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral
1 Vampiric
1 Demonic
1 Mystical
1 Timetwister
1 Will
1 Tinker
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Walk
1 Windfall
3 Tainted Pact
1 Necropotence

Now - there are still issues with this deck - Chalice and Null Rod are a severe roadblock on our highway to victory - that why I've included 2 Hurkyl's in the maindeck - along the 2 in the side - if I happen to play vs something NonBlue, it works as a nice reset for the artifacts as well - no surprise there. The deck isn't as fast as Long, but it's very resiliant to disruption (Jesters Cap, Rootwater Thief not included) I do NOT claim that this is a Tier1 deck, because it isn't - although I believe that it could be a sneaky Tier 1.5 deck. Lots of thoughts welcome - It's a great deck to play, sporting lots of turn 2 kills (In goldfishing obv) - and i have managed to pull a turn1 kill several times...

Lotus, Brushwagg, Go
Lars

[Razor]

Oh, it's off-topic, but regarding Parfait, a third kill option has emerged in the form of Decree of Justice which would obviously work well with Extraplanar Lens the same way Sacred Mesa would.

[Solaran_X]

Another combo that had worked rather well involves running a single creature, and then using Proteus Staff to put that creature on the bottom of your library, and then replaying it. Here is the exact wording of Proteus Staff -

"Proteus Staff"                                    (RULE NOT FOUND, Using Simple Info)

Info: [Edition] = Mirrodin (MR), [Color] = Artifact, [Rarity] = Rare, [Cost] = 3, [Type] = Artifact

CARD TEXT: 2U, T: Put target creature on the bottom of its owner's library. That creature's controller reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and the rest on the bottom of his or her library in any order. Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.

Pay attention to the second-to-last line - "The player puts that card into play and the rest on the bottom of his or her library in any order."

Combine that with Charbelcher, and you got a nice little shot at your opponent's head, barring Stifle, Willbender, or COP: Artifacts ( who plays COP: Artifacts, anyways? ). Just put your only creature on the bottom of your library, and then replay it with the Staff. Stack your library for optimum effect, and blow the Charbelcher.

I'm currently working on a build of this deck. Volcanic Islands and regular Islands, with a few Mountains tossed in for effect. Maybe even blue/white with token creatures - the effect would still be the same, since if you don't reveal a creature, you'd just restack your library in any order. Raise the Alarm comes to mind, with a pair of 1/1 Knights for a mere 1W at Instant speed.

Just my $0.02.

[shlnmnk]

the best thing to do would be just run mishras factories. you dont need there to be any creatures in the deck as one activation of the staff would stack the deck.

though it still comes down to the fact that the combo isnt better than things already out there.

[Hawat]

Another use for Goblin Charbelcher is to combine it with Goblin Recruiter.

Play Recruiter(perhaps for free!), setup 20ish goblins..

[hippie tourach]

Quote Play Recruiter(perhaps for free!), setup 20ish goblins..

Or 10ish goblins and a mountain..

Quote Another combo that had worked rather well involves running a single creature, and then using Proteus Staff to put that creature on the bottom of your library, and then replaying it.

Mana Severance/Charbelcher simply combos out for less mana. Although running a creature in a combo deck has a certain appeal.

[Hawat]

The problem is you can't setup a mountain with recruiter, and it would be awefully embarassing to setup goblin recruiter and hit a wasteland.

The 'Gob-Vantage' deck from last extended season used Lackeys, Ringleaders, and Recruiters to do some fairly ridiculous things.  That would be imho the logical starting point for abusing charbelcher/recruiter imho.

[mrieff]

Quote (Hawat @ Oct. 20 2003,14:15)The 'Gob-Vantage' deck from last extended season used Lackeys, Ringleaders, and Recruiters to do some fairly ridiculous things.  That would be imho the logical starting point for abusing charbelcher/recruiter imho.

I would agree.
Going goblin with a back-up plan seems effective.
Look out for the New Orleans Pro Tour Next week, it should provide good input for a goblin/'belcher deck.

Relatedly, I would not play burning wish and mana severance in the same deck. The nice thing about wishes is that you can leave conditional card in the 'board.