Article -- The State of the Metagame Address

[Rakso]

The State of the Metagame Address (Or, Is Oscar Tan His Own Worst Enemy?)

Quote Again, what should we do? Innovate towards faster kills, meaning Turn 1? I think there's a point where you know where the metagame is taking you, and you should take the wheel from the driver already. I mean, we now have a format where a 2/1 for one mana has long since been too weak. My point is that Type I is too fast, and that proposing to slow it down is not a move to make Type I less competitive; it's a move to make Type I more realistic.

The State of the Metagame Address: Opinion Poll on Type I Restrictions

[Triple_S]

As noted in my post on another thread, your mention of restricting Mask is completely w/o merit, evidence, or credibility.  

"OH NO!  It lets him play creatures without possibility of being countered!  It must be restricted!"  This is how asking for the restriction of Mask comes off and it feeds into the view that you want a format where Keeper is Tier 1 by itself.  If we restricted all of the staples of the tops decks, cards frequently played and are powerful but not degenerate, then Wrath would have gone in Type 2 long ago.

[Montana_Gamer]

I do not feel that Ritual needs to be restricted either. It would kill off suicide black and void.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

Quote (Rakso @ Oct. 22 2003,08:01)The State of the Metagame Address (Or, Is Oscar Tan His Own Worst Enemy?)

Quote Again, what should we do? Innovate towards faster kills, meaning Turn 1? I think there's a point where you know where the metagame is taking you, and you should take the wheel from the driver already. I mean, we now have a format where a 2/1 for one mana has long since been too weak. My point is that Type I is too fast, and that proposing to slow it down is not a move to make Type I less competitive; it's a move to make Type I more realistic.

The State of the Metagame Address: Opinion Poll on Type I Restrictions

Amen!

Though the format will be in for a fixing come december 1st, so no worries.

[Crater Hellion]

Does anyone else find it silly he didn't even think about bazaar? Who asks if dark ritual should be restricted, and if cunning wish should be restricted, before bazaar?

[VideoGameBoy]

All I got from both articles was that it is a blatant, desperate attempt to make Keeper tier 1.  At least you were honest with the chart and placed yourself at one extreme (restrict everything but Keeper staples), but in all likelihood, Smmenen is still the one with his finger most on the pulse of T1 even though he is presented at the other extreme.

Thank you for including The Ferret's letter; it was very insightful and touching.

[bebe]

I'm not sure I am in total accordance with either view. Really, we have one very degenerate deck, i.e, Long. Ant other combo presently played in Type 1 is pretty easy to disrupt even though it has the potential to go off early ( I was beaten by TurboNevyn turn one but the deck hardly dominated).
Long needs to be dealt with. But other then LeD, we have to be careful what we restrict. Many of the proposed restrictions have collateral damage that will definately not enhance Type 1. Restrict Workshop - Hello, Hulk, Keeper and GAT. No need to play anything else.
2. Restrict Bazaar - Well, no more Madness and Dragon suffers ( but is stillo playable ).  Since neither deck is broken, I see no reason to restrict it ( both decks can be dealt with by a number of cards).
3. Restrict LED - Madness is less playable but can still compete. Long can still compete but is not so degenerate.
4. Restrict Ritual - A few combo decks use it (Rector/Trix and some Dragon). But it will hurt Sui badly and that is an arch type that should be left alone.

What exactly do people want to see inj this format?

[Smmenen]

I'm not sure how I got myself painted into a corner.

I think I made a strategic error in my peice that I would undo if I could go back in time.

How did I get painted into an extreme?  I think that is the effectiveness of Oscar's piece - it is rhetorically powerful, even if it is as he said, theoretcially confused.

The biggest flaw in the piece is this:  He points out that the enviornment post mirrodin is giong to be Dragon, Keeper, and Mud but that conclusion goes agaisnt the entire idea of restricting a huge amount of cards.  I think the peice argues against the pre-mirrodin environment, when that is already over with.

EDIT: Just out of curiousity - how would you al feel if I agreed to the restriction of Dark Ritual, Mishra's Workshop, and possibly Chrome Mox on the condition taht Mana Drain goes too?   

Keep in mind I love my drains.

Steve\n\n

[SliverKing]

Quote (Smmenen @ Oct. 22 2003,12:16)Just out of curiousity - how would you al feel if I agreed to the restriction of Dark Ritual, Mishra's Workshop, and possibly Chrome Mox on the condition taht Mana Drain goes too?

without workshop and dark ritual breaking the mana curve (and thus providing juicy early game targets), I cant see Mana Drain doing anything in need of restriction.

[Smmenen]

Did you read my article Josh?  Honestly?

*sigh*.  Mana Drain is not a problem becuase you drain into threats.  It's a problem becuase now that chalice exists it squeezes both sides of the mana curve and will make keeper utterly dominant without bazaar, Dark Ritual, and Workshop.  

Steve\n\n

[SliverKing]

if draining into a big swing isnt the problem, then what is? That the chalice forces decks to be slower and that skews toward control?  
If the game is sufficiently slowed by chalice then control will have tons of advantages, not just draining into bigger yawg-wills.  Or is that the idea? Control will be too good, but its already restricted to hell...  mana drain would be the best of whats left...

wouldn't the real culprit in that case be the chalice?

[Triple_S]

Amen.

[Mykeatog]

I begin to wonder if anyone even plays type 1 anymore. The more New England tournaments I go to, the more I notice that only once a day do I lose a game on the first turn. People who are trying to get others interested in the format shouldn't be spreading praise about the great aspect of living till turn two.

Oscar is incredibly unfair in this article, especially at the end. When he lists 'the rogue deck' he is listing a deck made by one of the best damned combo builders in the format. That is NOT an exlemplamentary rogue deck, it is simply what happens when a broken player makes another new toy to brake.

I find it hard to see what Oscar is trying to accomplish with this one, it seems as though he is using a flare gun to draw attention to himself, but only so he can steer people away from the format.

One last thing, it is a wonderful thing when 17 of the best players in the game all want different things out of the format, all that means is there is room for everything. This is what type 1 should be.\n\n

[doublej20]

Quote Second, nothing rotates out of Type I. If you were sick of seeing Wild Mongrel and Psychatog in Type II, all you had to do was wait it out for a few expansions. But what are you going to do in Type I?

Sorry, but this is not really true. When better cards are printed, or when certain cards/decks go out of style, then those specific cards are essentially rotating out. With the advent of Mana Drain, Counterspell essentially rotated out. Sure it might have been used by a few people, but not by most.

Quote My point is that Type I is too fast, and that proposing to slow it down is not a move to make Type I less competitive.

It's a move to make Type I more realistic.

Restricting certain cards to attempt to slow down the format is not realistic. Even if you restrict every mana accelerator you can think of, it will not slow down Type 1, as decks will pop up that just use 1 of every accelerator, rather than 4 of each of the best ones. If you don't believe me, you're welcome to play some games against my (or some of the other combo players') builds of Burning Desire with only 1 each of Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Chromatic Sphere, etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, do not rely on the DCI to fix your deck's problems, do it yourself with your deck and/or card choices. There is far too much crying for cards to be restricted under the guise of thoughtfulness, when in fact it is just looking at the format too narrowly.

[hippie tourach]

Quote Type I Must Be Able To Accommodate All Play Styles

Would you sacrifice most play styles to save control?

With your restriction list, at least two play styles are not accomodated: prison/lock, and aggro (or budget, if you'd call that a play style).

By trying to stop combo and Workshop you're also killing Suicide and Madness. What aggro decks would thrive after those restrictions?

For that matter, why restrict Dark Ritual if LED, SotV, and Chrome Mox are resticted? Or CotV if Workshop is restricted?

For that matter, why restrict CotV when it could hurt combo enough to allow Ritual and LED (and therefore aggro) to stay in the format?

[Monotone]

Is it possible that we are being a bit hasty?  Mirroden has only been legal for 3 days!  To my knowledge no major tournament reports have come out and no deck has emerged as dominant yet.  Let's all take a step back, stop acting like chicken little for a few days, and wait to see what happens.

Chris

[Jacob Orlove]

That's a somewhat presumptuous title, Oscar. Who voted you president of T1?

[Rando]

I think there's a rule somewhere that says one has to be pretentious to write Magic articles.  At least that's the idea I've been given.

jp

[hippie tourach]

No, but to write good Magic articles you have to not only be presumptuous but also list "qualifications" at the end of your articles.

I should end my posts with:
Maurice Schwenkler
Harvard University, College of Magic the Gathering
Member, The Mana Drain
Member, MTG News
Member, Hotmail
Author, THIS POST
Maintainer, my homepage
President, Type I
Ruler, The World

Then people will listen when I say every card I don't play with should be restricted...

yes...

[FyreStar]

Fix the link.  It sent me to some worthless damn Battletech forum by mistake.    

[Matt The Great]

Quote (Smmenen @ Oct. 22 2003,11:16)How did I get painted into an extreme?  

You and Oscar are basically the only ambassadors of the format. Being by far the two most outspoken, it's natural for the perception of the format as a whole to steer itself into a bipolar form around your two opinions, especially where those opinions conflict.

[VideoGameBoy]

Actually Matt, I think Smmenen is put out that he looks like he is out there in la-la land being one of the few people to advocate restricting minimal cards, and thus is at one extreme.  Offsetting this, though, is the fact that he was probably one of the few people who took the post-Mirrodin T1 perspective into account when drafting his list - a context which was not explained clearly in the article.

Unless I am just full of shit and everybody was told only to draft a list for pre-Mirrodin T1 - which would be scary, and hopefully not the case.

edit-fixed grammar\n\n

[hippie tourach]

Quote (VideoGameBoy @ Oct. 22 2003,20:33)Smmenen...was probably one of the few people who took the post-Mirrodin T1 perspective into account when drafting his list - a context which was not explained clearly in the article.

Unlikely, when the restriction lists include Chalice, Chrome Mox, and Spoils.

[Smmenen]

But even so - when people think about those cards, they are actually thinking in the mindframe of pre-mirrodin - simply integrating those cards into decks pre-mirrodin without understanding full metagame dynamics through testing.  At least that's what I think most poeple have done.

Steve\n\n

[Toast]

Rasko, you come off in this article as being a little 3 year old trying to change the rules of his favorite game so that he can't lose. just because a card is good and used in a non blue based control strategy, doesn't mean it should be restricted. You have little basis for any of the restrictions you call for.

[Triple_S]

Chrome Mox and Spoils I can see being restricted straight away due to pre-existing criteria, but Chalice?  Results need to be posted, and metagames skewed, before this should even be considered.

[Moxlotus]

Quote (Toast @ Oct. 22 2003,21:39)Rasko, you come off in this article as being a little 3 year old trying to change the rules of his favorite game so that he can't lose. just because a card is good and used in a non blue based control strategy, doesn't mean it should be restricted. You have little basis for any of the restrictions you call for.

Can I get a hallelujah brotha!

I don't think there is much wrong with the format post-mirrodin.  Long will still be able to pull out turn 2 wins, but could also almost auto-lose turn 1 to a chalice: its all about the guts and the luck of the match.

Way back when there were 4 decks that i would see: Keeper, Mono Blue, Zoo, and Sligh

Today there are tons and tons. Prison, Combo, Control, Aggro, and combinations of all of the above.  The metagame is so diverse I can go to a tournament and not see the same deck twice, and possibly not even the same strategy twice.

I love this metagame.  If you want a slow game and only slow game, go play extended, T2, or even limited.  If you want the possibility of turn 2 kills, or the possibility of going to turn 40 against something play T1.

[Hanzalot]

Rakso: No doubt you have written some great articles in the past and thank you for that, but this one was just plain awful.

Not because of the fact that I don't agree with you at all, but because you fail to come up with one single substantial argument in the entire article. For what seems to be very subjective reasons you promote a list of bizarre restrictions designed to kill the most exciting metagame in years, based on very vague points about boring decks, the possibility of turn 2 kills and statements like "bazaar and mask are just too broken".

Simply not good enough. Especially considering that you have a certain influence on many players, I would have expected you to be more objective in your reasoning.

[Jaapmans]

What I realy mis in the list of cards that were put up for the poll, are the cards that abuse undercosted spells: the storm spells. They are causing a convergence and narrowing of the environment at this moment.

Why were those cards left out?

Jaap

[SliverKing]

... Because restricting the storm spells(other than desire which was a draw engine) would be like restricting Keeper's Morphling;  They only NEED one to win, so why bother?  The problem is the tutor effects (burning wish) and the fast mana (LED, Ritual) that let them get and play so many spells so quickly.