Article: The New MaskNaught

[Smmenen]

I hope you guys like this.  I've tested it alot, so I know its very deadly.  



Link

Third article from the top.

Steve\n\n

[Akuma (gio)]

Nice article. The deck you posted is almost identical to a casual Masknought deck I like to play (Casual = 4 Demonic Consultation).

I'm still getting used to the Spoils. They are amazing in the deck, especially in a high power meta.\n\n

[jntemp777]

Interesting article.
I was actually just testing Spoiled Mask this weekend in Los Angeles.

Spoils really allows the deck to evolve closer to a pure combo deck.  Blue Negator and Tracerbullet suggested that I remove Pernicious Deed from the deck.  I've cut down, but I still stubbornly stick with 2xmaindeck.  Knowing that there are 2 in the deck makes me feel more comfortable playing it.  
 
this is the decklist that I'm running.  


4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Phyrexian Negator

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

2 Pernicious Deed
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Dark Ritual
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou


some of my odd card choices

1.  Pernicious Deed.
Originally, I was running the deck with 2x maindeck Seals and Scrublands.  Then I saw that, an early creature or other permanent could just end my entire game right there like a Goblin Tinkerer, Scepter w/nasty imprint, or Chalice at set at 1cc or 2cc.  I wanted a maindeck solution to these.    

One more point about Deeds, whereas a late game topdeck of Dark Ritual was often a dead card, Deeds made them very useful again.
 
2.  No basic lands:  
Wastelands really hurt, but I didn't give up blue because I often was able to win even with just 1 land on the table.

  
Match-ups I've tested against:

1.  Sligh:
I noticed that in your article, you didn't talk about Sligh.  Many players consider Sligh post Mirrodin to be completely dead, but I was testing against an artifact hate Sligh(4x shaman, 4x Goblin Tinkerer, 2x Viashino Herectic).  
Sometimes a dreadnaught hit early and it was quick and painful.  At other times I attempted to desperately Spoil into the combo and in the process took my life total to less than 10, and got gunned down by burn.  My problem with post-Mirrodin Sligh was that they often pack much more artifact hate maindeck because of Chalice fear.  Goblin Tinkerer has been one of those creatures that I would have ignored before, but these tend to throughly rape my dreadnaughts.   Another problem with sligh is that post sideboard, their deck gets filled with some awful artifact hate.

2.  Chalice o' wMUD
Perhaps Mask just hates me, but I still found the more consistent broken hand came from the Chalice o'MUD player.  Very often Duress and Hymns became dead draws once they dumped their entire hand onto the table and/or Skullcap.

3.  Keeper
Against Keepers with Scepters the disruption was so heavy that Scepters became difficult to play in time to make them useful.  Mox Monkey also ruined my day enough times for me to go with green as my tertiary color for the Deeds.

Still no games vs Dragon or Long.  

I never even thought about going monoblack, but seeing how well it worked out for you, I'm going to have to try it out.\n\n

[Magimaster]

Spoils is strong. This is just the first wave. As people experiment more, it will just get more broken and broken, stronger as time goes on. Then it will get axed.




Other than that, it was an awesome article.

EDIT:\n\n

[westredale]

that md is basically mine (credit is always nice). the only card that I didn't run was Unmask in favor of shades. Christiaan (Zhalfirin) added Unmasks to my version which gave you the current version of the deck.

Max Joseph
Team Bitter.team\n\n

[MoreFling]

nice read Smmenen.

It's funny how you calculate spoils. We tested it, and the first few times, spoils continiously killed the deck heh - Gotta love those masks sticking together! ;p

I'm sure the statistics are all correct, but I just wanted to mention it. It was probably caused though by Kaervek's Demonic Consultation-Curse, he was sitting next to us

[rozetta]

This deck is scary.

[Thug]

Quote Spoils-Mask
Created by Team Meandeck and the MeanAgons

Road To Victory:
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Phyrexian Negator

Roadmap To Victory:
4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Necropotence

Ways to Deal With Speed Bumps:
4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Accelerators:
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus

Sightseeing:
15 Swamps

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Metagame Slots

Seriously, what did change compared with pre-mirrodin Tainted Mask, the Pacts got replaced with Spoils.

So the deck get's slightly more consistent (once in a while a pact tended to fizzzle)

The deck got slightly worse again aggro, but that's should be a good matchup with 12/12 tramplers.

And the deck got a little speed boost, a great thing.

------------

I think the list is far from optimal, I rather try to incorperate both spoils and pacts, and at least run wastelands or factories. Also splashing red for Blood Moon seems to make the deck a lot better.

With the current version Dragon seems like a very bad matchups, after sideboarding they get Chalice to neuter your tormod's crypts and at the same time remove a huge part of your acceleration, or at 1 to stop the cards you already mentioned in the article. And don't forgot the artifact hate that's always present

Koen\n\n

[MethodXL]

Great article as usual Smmenen

I can testify to how good this deck is because Westredale has wrecked my face so many times with it on MWS weeks ago.\n\n

[Smmenen]

Quote (Thug @ Nov. 11 2003,04:33)I think the list is far from optimal, I rather try to incorperate both spoils and pacts, and at least run wastelands or factories. Also splashing red for Blood Moon seems to make the deck a lot better.

With the current version Dragon seems like a very bad matchups, after sideboarding they get Chalice to neuter your tormod's crypts and at the same time remove a huge part of your acceleration, or at 1 to stop the cards you already mentioned in the article. And don't forgot the artifact hate that's always present

Koen

Well you weren't involved in the testing and quite a few people were.  In the first place, I was involved in the original mask naught testing - as the article discusses.  In the second place, the deck is entirely different from the tainted mask deck.    

Tainted Pact distorts maindeck construction in a way that spiols does in the other direction - they are not synergistic cards. Most of the artifact hate is answered by 12 discard spells.  The remainder can be stopped by Lightning Greaves and simply beating Down with Negator.  To imply that I "simply changed one card to another" disgusts be not only because it is obviously untrue, but becuase i was intimately involved in the tainted mask.  

I played against Richard in KC with this deck and went 5-4-1 and my testing has something in the range of like 60-40 over a huge span of games.  I suggest you read the article in its entirely, otherwise you would have read that.  The changes to the deck over its development including are included.  

There were basically three versions of this deck - the first was Chrome Mask, then Westredales which cut the Chrome Mox for Swamps and Unmask for Shade, and then Zhalfrin's which cut the Shades for Unmask, and voila. So westredale is wrong, the maindeck was basically mine - the only change is - 4 chrome mask + 4 swamp.  

Steve\n\n

[MolotDET]

Steve, I am getting tired of saying this but, yet again... Great Article.

I have been working on a version of this deck myself and though my maindeck dosen't exactly match the Meandeck version, I can attest to how brutally fast it works.  Though as it has been pointed out, Chalice is not a good thing to see on the other side of the table.  I think this deck would be really close to being one of the best, if most of the teir one decks weren't playing Chalice.

By the way I was calling it "Vault-Nought."


Molot\n\n

[Smmenen]

Quote (MoreFling @ Nov. 11 2003,03:00)nice read Smmenen.

It's funny how you calculate spoils. We tested it, and the first few times, spoils continiously killed the deck heh - Gotta love those masks sticking together! ;p

I'm sure the statistics are all correct, but I just wanted to mention it. It was probably caused though by Kaervek's Demonic Consultation-Curse, he was sitting next to us

Heh.  Yeah - it's like I said in the article - you really gotta make sure the deck is shuffled very well.  After each game I'd check to see if the Masks are clumped together.  

Steve

[mrieff]

When you add to that the random spoils factor, the deck doesnt look so attractive to me. Outright game losses of 15.5% is alot.

The deck is not superior enough to compensate for those random losses against other tier 1 decks. Assuming Mask is a competitive tier 1 deck, it should post a win ratio in the line of 40-60% against other tier 1 decks.

I'd much rather play a competitive tier 1 deck, without the extra random loss factor.

Sidenote: The fact that spoils is such an all-or-nothing card might increase the chanche of restriction. Not for power issues, as the random suicides keep it in check. But because the DCI doens't like matches to become even more luck dependent.

[Smmenen]

Do you cast Spoils every game?  And if you do cast Spoils, sometimes it may be for a swamp - and sometimes it may be after you have cast consult.  That sort of thing dramaticaly changes the raw numbers.  

Up to you....you gotta have balls to play this format .

Steve

[Smmenen]

I recieved an email that should be of interest to you all:

Hello Stephen,
 
It's me, the guy who claimed, not so long ago, on the Starcity forums that consistent mana acceleration and cheap tutoring has to be restricted. I'm also still waiting for your many arguments against it , as I still firmly believe in it. Anyway, that's not what I wanted to talk about.
 
In your recent Masknought article (where budget players still aren't too happy, since Illusionary Mask isn't exactly budget material , you've posted following comment from Elric about Spoils of the vault:
I can answer the question of how often you will kill yourself with a single Spoils. If you go first, and play land, Spoils for a card that you have four of left in your deck (out of fifty-three cards), then there is an 15.873% chance that the Spoils simply kills you. If you go second and Spoil for a card that you have four of with fifty-two cards left in your deck, then there is only a 15.115% chance that spoils kills you. There is a 74.792% chance that you lose fifteen or less life from the Spoils and there is a 49.118% chance that you lose eight life or less from the spoils.

Well, I think Elric made a little mistake. Don't worry, his calculations were okay, but he misinterpreted the card itself. Sparing you a little time, I'll reiterate the spoiler text for Spoils here:
 
Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal the named card, then put that card into your hand. Remove all other cards revealed this way from the game, and you lose 1 life for each of the removed cards.
 
It's clear (or so I think) that the card you eventually put in your hand doesn't cost you life - only the cards removed from game munch on your life total. Elric didn't incorporate this in his calculations; he assumed that the card you get costs 1 life too. This small error has a notable effect on the probabilities that come out (although only by a few percent), so I thought I'd share this with you.
 
I've included a Microsoft Excel file with all the infos you need about the probabilities to lose exactly X life, or to lose X life or less, starting from a 53 card library (ie. while going first). For details about the maths behind it, contact me or Elric . It's rather simple stuff, so I won't bore you with it. Anyway, if you look at the table, you'll see I get the same results as Elric, except that X is one less. For example, the chance of 49.118% appears at X = 7 life here instead of 8, etc. Note that the chance to die is 13.974%, which makes Spoils even better than thought before .
 
However, the notion of 8 life loss on average is off the mark. Using the standard formula to calculate the average life loss, I get nearly 9 life (it's also shown in the Excel file). Note that if Elric's right and you do lose a life for the card you put in your hand, this average would be even larger than 9 life. Still, that's more than satisfactory for a (cool) deck such as Masknought.
 
Anyways, keep writing those great articles (push Tan to the max as well for me  and if you're okay with it and have the time, I'd like to Apprentice you somewhere in the (probably far) future with my lame t1 decks after Chalice and Spoils are restricted (even if they aren't .
 
Cheers,
 
Vincent.
 
PS: I've added the variance as well - it's pretty large, as expected (about 6,71). If my assumption about Spoils was correct, then I can say the following thing about it (In Elric's case, this would be worse):
 
"A Spoils of the Vault, on average, results in a life loss of 9 life. In most cases however, any amount between 2 and 16 life can be lost."

[bebe]

I'm in total agreementwith steve on this. Spoils makes a number of combo decks a lot faster. Your only consideration is to make sure the deck is redundant enough that Spoils hits the mark. It is a very good fit in Mask. The risk is far outweighed by the benefits.
I do have to say that I'm somewhat surprised with your results over Dragon though. Post sideboard I would think that Dragon has a definate advantage over Mask and decent chance pre-sideboard. At least that has been my testing results. You also need to deal with Null Rods and Chalices which a number of decks are packing.
That said it looks like a very good deck.

[Smmenen]

Yes.  Post Sideboard is a different story.  I didn't do as much testing against Dragon post SB, mostly because its a totally different matchup and becuase there is so much variability.

Steve

[rozetta]

I just had a stupid thought - Grim Reminder for the mirror - makes those spoils just that much more dangerous

Well, I said it was stupid...

[Hyperion]

The article was thorough and explained a lot of the finer points about playing Mask against the other top tier decks. However, I had a couple of other related questions.

1) Your article did not discuss strategies versus aggressive decks because of the perception that they were favorable matchups ("I'm only going to take an in depth look at the most difficult matchups. Most decks cannot handle the power of MaskNought, and many sideboard decisions will be obvious"). Do you suggest siding out Spoils of the Vault against aggro, and if so, in favor of what? I presume that Chalice would come in against the likes of Sligh. Against the likes of Suicide, Stacker, Madness, etc...would you bring in Lightning Greaves, with the assumption that aggro decks will side in some form of removal? I realize that the answer to this question depends in part on what the "metagame slot" consists of, but considering that most potential Mask players WOULD run into a plethora of aggressive decks in real-life tournaments, I think any insight on these matchups would be welcome.

2) Given an appropriate metagame, would you consider maindecking Lightning Greaves? This is actually one of the cards I like most about the Mask build presented in your article, and after reading it I got the impression that it comes in against just about every non-combo deck in the format. Between Greaves and Chalice post-SB I like the fact that this build is able to protect not only Dreadnought, but Negator quite well from spot removal. Is Lightning Greaves primarily intended to be a catch-all solution to removal post-SB, or to catch the opponent by surprise and render their targeted removal useless? If it's the latter, it makes more sense to me to keep it in the sideboard, but if it's the former, I think a strong argument could be made for maindecking it in a combo-light metagame, perhaps in place of some of the discard (since I can't think of what else would be cut)? Since even if the untargetability doesn't come into play before sideboarding, shortening the kill by a first turn would be a tremendous upside as well, and Keeper would have access to removal Game 1 anyway.

[Saucemaster]

Quote that md is basically mine (credit is always nice). the only card that I didn't run was Unmask in favor of shades. Christiaan (Zhalfirin) added Unmasks to my version which gave you the current version of the deck.

Okay, so here's how I remember the whole thing going (O NOS!! MEENDEK SEKRITS REVELED!!!11):

Steve posts a list involving Chrome Mox + Spoils + 4 Unmask.  Zhalfirin and I do some testing with it and both of us decide that Chrome Mox is pretty much just shit in the deck--the deck has enough acceleration without it, it never once made a difference in any game, and was usually dead in hand.  I report this on IRC, where Westredale then promptly throws together a list without Chrome Mox, and with 4 Shades and 4 Hymns, and no Unmasks.

Again, Zhalfirin and I test it and we love the deck.  Zhalfirin remarks that, from the other side of the table, he's much more afraid of Unmask than I he is of Hymn, if we have to choose between the two.  I concurs--and Zhalfirin has always run 4 Unmask in Mask anyway.  We make the change, leaving the Shades in, assuming that 12 discard spells will be overkill.  The deck proceeds to kick major ass.  Steve later changes the Shades into Hymns.  It's still a possibility, for those actually reading this, that Shades could go in the deck in place of the Hymns in the right metagame (maybe one rife with Prison decks and aggro).

So basically, crediting the deck to the team as a whole (as Steve did) seems like the right way to go.  Westy did make some very heavy contributions to the decklist and, as always, rocks.

Anyway.

So the other thing to mention is that while the decklist is certainly just a starting place and I expect the deck to evolve, I'm personally (and much of the rest of Meandeck concurs at this point) loathe to splash a color simply because it will make the Keeper and Prison matchups significantly worse.  A well-timed Wasteland--especially if you're stuck under a Wire, for example--can be crippling DESPITE the deck relying on so little mana.  Your margin of victory is often about one turn wide with this deck against many of the best decks in the format, and Wasteland can frequently give them that turn.  It may be that the deck gets hated (because it's always possible to hate it) and that it will be forced to splash colors to deal.  We'll have to see how the metagame adapts to it.  But until you're FORCED to, I would suggest holding off on a splash.  At the very least, test it as a mono-B deck for a while and compare your results.  There will be games that you lose because you didn't have access to (card X that you would have had if you'd splashed), but our numbers show that currently, those are made up for by the number of games you win through invulnerability to Wasteland and sheer consistency.

The other note I have is on the Dragon matchup: I expected this deck to lose to Dragon, too.  But I tested it quite a bit, and reported my surprised finding that, whether it was myself or Zhalfirin playing the deck, Mask was taking more than 50% of the games (this is all pre-SB, mind you).  Steve reported that he'd had the same experience.  Basically, we've tested the matchup alot and we'll stand by what Steve wrote--in game one, Mask has an edge on Dragon.  As Bebe correctly noted, post-SB is a different story.  I would still give the edge to Mask overall--though not by a huge margin--but I can see myself being convinced otherwise if others test the matchup extensively and find different.  It all hinges on the two decks' SB strategies.\n\n

[bebe]

Also bear in mind that I play a b/g version of Dragon that is quite different from dicemanx and shockwave's. The green splash is for Xantid Swarms (side) and Pernicious Deeds - not good for Mask. I also side four Chalices. Main deck i have three Verdant Force - quite useful if you hymn.
It is really interesting to hear about the evolution of the deck. If I understand correctly there are two different versions playing Spoils. I like the Shades, especially against Dragon which often is very happy to be hymned, so I hope Steve's version is played.  
 

[PhOeNiX]

Quote (MoreFling @ Nov. 11 2003,03:00)nice read Smmenen.

It's funny how you calculate spoils. We tested it, and the first few times, spoils continiously killed the deck heh - Gotta love those masks sticking together! ;p

I'm sure the statistics are all correct, but I just wanted to mention it. It was probably caused though by Kaervek's Demonic Consultation-Curse, he was sitting next to us

Hahaha, Rudy! That's the reason I usually don't bring myself to play these decks. I have the worst luck when it comes down to Demonic Consultation and it should be even worse for Spoils of the Vault. Like, who gets 3 Sinkholes in the first six cards removed by Consult?!  

Also, great article!

[Thug]

Quote Tainted Pact distorts maindeck construction in a way that spiols does in the other direction - they are not synergistic cards. Most of the artifact hate is answered by 12 discard spells.  The remainder can be stopped by Lightning Greaves and simply beating Down with Negator.  To imply that I "simply changed one card to another" disgusts be not only because it is obviously untrue, but becuase i was intimately involved in the tainted mask.

Ok I must admit, that comment was made too quick and has little reasoning behind it, but this was because I was quite disappointed, the title "new Masknaught" promises a lot more than what we actually got.

I now took a better look at it, and (because I couldn't believe some of the statements) did some quick test runs against Dragon.

First Off, that list is totally based around Spoils, and I really get the feeling that too much is sacrificed too make Spoils a good card in the deck. The deck is full of 4-of's and lacks broken cards other colours could add. Not to mention the use of 15 basic swamps.

I expected a more innovating build because after the spoils was released, and the pre-mirrodin metagame became more clear I also tested mask, but I came up with an other list. I was basicly building the deck with the goal to beat Keeper and Dragon. So I ended up with a version with Wastelands, Chains and Blood Moons, but even with that deck tuned to beat Keeper and Dragon I had a hard beating them.

So when I saw this version and the claims against Keeper and Dragon I just couldn't believe them, and tested it.

And testing showed me that this deck does not take 50% pre-sb against dragon at all, it's actually far lower, at a point at which you should call Dragon a bad matchup.

But I guess I better shut up, cause there no reason to get in a fight and there's no use for me to convince people of facts, when people can just test this deck and draw their own conclusions.

Btw, it's another great article, I just can't settle with the given decklist

Koen\n\n

[Matt The Great]

Is this the article that promised "a brand new deck"? If so, I'm disappointed; I was expecting something totally out of left field.

[Saucemaster]

Quote And testing showed me that this deck does not take 50% pre-sb against dragon at all, it's actually far lower, at a point at which you should call Dragon a bad matchup.

How much testing have you done with it so far, Koen?  I'm honestly just surprised--we've done alot of testing of this matchup pre-board, and the results are as stated.  It's not inconceivable that others will get different results, and I'd like to hear them.  Most games that Mask won came down to Dragon getting its animation spells and Intuitions Duressed/Unmasked, and stuck unable to find another before the 2-turn clock ran out.  That or Dragon dropped before it had enough mana to cast a reanimation spell--the turn's worth of mana that Dragon had to invest in dropping Bazaar ultimately killed it.  Again, this just happened a little more frequently than it DIDN'T happen.  As this would indicate, that means that playing is (of course) fairly big in the matchup--but Mask's disruption allowed it to break serve a few times, enough to give it a little edge.

Again, it's not as if Mask was completely destroying Dragon.  Look at Steve's numbers--60/40 preboard at best, and he mentioned going 5/4/1 in IRL testing against Richard.  It's close, but unless more testing reverses our initial testing--which a number of team members performed independently--I, at least, will stick by what Steve has written.\n\n

[Smmenen]

Quote One of the more difficult decisions is what to do if you have both Demonic Consultation and Spoils of the Vault in hand. I think the jury is still out on this question, but the preliminary answer is that you Consult first. The reason is that your Spoils becomes less dangerous when your deck is thinner, and Consult is less dangerous when your deck is thicker. Further investigation will probably confirm this assessment.

Any thoughts on this?

Steve

[Matt The Great]

Thinking back to my last bout of testing (where mana denial was Mask's only chance against Keeper), what do you think about replacng the Hymns with Strip Mine/Wastelands? Hymn hasn't impressed me in a long time.

[Smmenen]

I read that and remembered thinking that I felt completely different - but that hopefully this build would answer some of that.

I think in general people are a little suprised about no tainted pact - but I think its something they just need to get used to.  Someone in the unreggie forum said they felt like there needed to be more tutors, but there are already 6!  I have played this deck alot (as the matchup analysis reveals, I hope) and I think the results people get with this deck will hopefully speak for themselves.  As for Hymn specifically, I know Saucemaster was a little unimpressed.  Cabal Therapy is not a bad card to splice in that slot as I made clear in the article.  Wasteland I think is just untenable though.  This deck is built to be super fast and not really have a late game.  So Wasteland basically becomes a spell - a free spell that costs you a land drop.  As such, it's not bad - but you probably will be doing it after your combo - when you'd rather do it before your combo.  

Try this out a bit and tell me if you still feel the same way.

As for splashing - I thought I wrote this into the article, but apparently people didn't read it closely enough - given that Wasteland is in alot of the best decks right now, there was a huge benefit of going to mono color.  

Steve

[Matt The Great]

It's just that Mask would throw a battery of discard at Keeper (I was with Keeper) and take a Force or something, and then I'd Brainstorm into a Wish into an StP or some similar plan. Discard never really stopped my ability to find an answer, while cutting me from red or white would have (and occasionally did).

But I will try yours out.\n\n

[slycaptainfox]

Quote (Smmenen @ Nov. 11 2003,19:05)

Quote One of the more difficult decisions is what to do if you have both Demonic Consultation and Spoils of the Vault in hand. I think the jury is still out on this question, but the preliminary answer is that you Consult first. The reason is that your Spoils becomes less dangerous when your deck is thinner, and Consult is less dangerous when your deck is thicker. Further investigation will probably confirm this assessment.

Any thoughts on this?

Steve

Of course you would consult first, almost ensuring the card gets to your hand and you know whats left in your deck and how many so you can spoils.

If you spoils first, you have a much greater risk of dying and removing cards that might need to be consulted for (which is different from the aforementioned because 6 cards is a lot riskier when you have 40 cards than when you have 50)

Great article Steve.