TheManaDrain.com
March 31, 2020, 04:42:34 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: The Current Status of Deck Parfait  (Read 4844 times)
LimDul945
Guest
« on: November 15, 2003, 05:15:01 pm »

As of late, I have seen a decent amount of intrest reborn in Deck Parfait from individuals in the online community.  Last time I checked on TMD we had decided that there was too little dispruption for it to be a successful control deck, but with the release of Mirrodin, Parfait recieved some cool new toys to play with.  The most recent list I have seriously seen for Parfait was K-Run's list mentioned by Oscar Tan on starcitygames.com, but that looked like it was only a rough list.  Since the deck now seems like its infinitely faster with the addition of charbelcher, I was wondering if anyone wanted to reinvestigate the best budget deck in T1.  To get things started, here is my VERY rough list I have started testing around with.

//NAME: Parfait
        4 Orim's Chant
        1 Mana Vault
        2 Mountain
        11 Plains
        3 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Balance
        3 Goblin Charbelcher
        4 Argivian Find
        1 Tormod's Crypt
        1 Blood Moon
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Sol Ring
        2 Aura of Silence
        1 Zuran Orb
        1 Chalice of the Void
        3 Humility
        3 Isochron Scepter
        3 Land Tax
        3 Tithe
        3 Scroll Rack

SB:  3 Replenish
SB:  2 Sacred Ground
SB:  2 Chalice of the Void
SB:  2 Disenchant
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  4 Abeyance

Please, if this deck is alive at all, start looking into new ways to evolve the deck and stay alive.  

--Peace
Logged
jpmeyer
fancy having a go at it?
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 2390


badplayermeyer
View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2003, 07:12:36 pm »

I tossed together a 9-land Parfait just for fun and because the land count is so low that it can often raw dog Belcher kills.
Logged

Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2003, 03:57:23 am »

I might as well post my current build. It's seriously the best I can come up with.

4 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Plains
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

4 Eternal Dragon
2 Mox Monkey

2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Moat
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Tithe
4 Orim's Chant
3 Argivian Find
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mind Twist
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Yawgmoth's Will

I can't remember it card for card. I think I cut black in the end, but I really can't remember.

In general, it doesn't work anymore, and scepter + chant is really the best you can hope for.
Logged
Ferrismonk
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2003, 04:06:26 am »

Since chant is great with scepter, don't you think that abeyance is worth a slot too?
Logged
MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2003, 03:52:02 pm »

Quote from: Ferrismonk+Nov. 16 2003,10:06
Quote (Ferrismonk @ Nov. 16 2003,10:06)Since chant is great with scepter, don't you think that abeyance is worth a slot too?
That's just overkill. There are other great imprints, namely Tithe btw.
Logged
Queequeg
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2003, 04:46:05 pm »

It is intreasting how these parfait builds (espically yours MoreFling) have moved so far away from a build that had remained the same for so long, its questionable if these decks could even be regarded as Parfait at all. Enchantress more closely resemables traditional parfait, with charbelcher the deck moves away from the defensive play forced by running mesa as a kill to a more aggressive deck.
Logged
MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2003, 07:36:46 am »

Thus, we can easily conclude the old strategy is not even close to being competative. I'm not sure mine is, since Chant is too important. The reason abeyance doesn't work in it, is on the one hand the mana cast, and you don't want to be stuck with TOO many of those cards. They don't work in every matchup.
Logged
specialk
Guest
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2003, 11:52:01 am »

I like the way MoreFling's Parfait is moving but since there is more artifact hate in the enviroment and you are running more artifacts People will have more ways to crile your effourts of control with say Rack and Ruin at the appropriate time.  And most control decks running 2 mox monkeys doesn't help you maintain your mana base.  and you have black but no duresses to help combat control.  I would suggest a deck that runs basics and land tax to find them so that you can use blood moons and duress if you want to combat control
Logged
Razor
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2003, 10:32:21 am »

FYI, I posted my last Charbelcher-Parfait draft here on Oct.18:
http://www.themanadrain.com/cgi-bin....y143977

I don't think Replenish and Scepter belong in the same version of Parfait.  They focus on breaking different TYPES of cards and simply dilute the impact of each other.

I think Extraplanar Lens will accelerate the kills with versions which use Decree of Justice or traditional Sacred Mesa.

I suspect that 4 Chrome Moxen will prove invaluable.

So many good decks to test and so little time...
Logged
pernicious dude
Guest
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2003, 12:43:39 pm »

Extraplanar Lens is pretty sweet with Land Tax.
I like that a lot.
Logged
Razor
Guest
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2003, 06:08:36 pm »

Well, last night Special_K and I finally made time to test a fully-powered Charbelcher Parfait with 4 Chrome Moxen and 10 land.  I concluded within an hour that I have utterly ruined the deck's previously ironclad manabase with Chrome Moxen.  Sometimes they bust out a turn 1 Land Tax that doesn't actually get Force of Willed and everything comes together.  But more often than not they allow opponents to disrupt my manabase completely via Mox Monkey, Keg, Disk, etc.  In short, Chrome Moxen are not looking overly good in Parfait contrary to my expectations.
Logged
Blackest Lotus
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2003, 11:55:06 pm »

I agree Razor, to some extent at least. Four Chrome Mox are far too many, however I have had little trouble with two maindeck. I think that seems to be the right number. The deck has worked great for me. The only things I might change are the -1 Humility, and -1 Story Circle, and nix the Ivory Mask completely. Soldevi Digger hasn't been bad, nor good to me, I will leave it in for the time being. Oh, and the lack of Wastelands is because I like to have all my lands be Taxable, so I can just activate Charbelcher once and know it will kill them. Here is what I run currently.

Parfait - 60

Tax/Rack - 9
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb

Enchantments - 6
2 Humility
2 Story Circle
1 Ivory Mask
1 Bloodmoon

Scepter Fun - 19
3 Isochron Scepter
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Disencant
2 Tithe
3 Argivian Find
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Orim's Chant

Kill - 4
3 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Soldevi Digger

Broken - 1
Balance

Mana sources - 21
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Diamond
2 Chrome Mox
2 Mountains
14 Plains

Sideboard - 15
3 Rule Of Law
3 Gilded Light
1 Replenish
1 Karmic Justice
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Bloodmoon\n\n

Logged
jshields
Guest
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2003, 11:46:43 am »

maybe its just my terrible luck  , but I have had lots of difficulty using the isochron scepter in the deck.  i have tried the blasted stick (no pun intended) in 3 tournaments, but its not been working too well    .  also, does anyone still think it would be good to go with 2 mesa, 1 charbelcher, 1 digger as the win?  I can not get the belcher to go off either  


edit ~~~ I have a foil chrome mox.  does havign only played since 2001 and having the minor bling bling still count towards coolness\n\n

Logged
MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2003, 03:40:31 pm »

jshields: try my version. It's sick with Belcher. It's probably the best possible control-combo deck without blue.

Ok, that also means its still not very good, but it has some merit.
Logged
Thug
Guest
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2003, 04:59:07 pm »

Quote
Quote 4 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Plains
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

4 Eternal Dragon
2 Mox Monkey

2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Moat
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Tithe
4 Orim's Chant
3 Argivian Find
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mind Twist
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Eeehm, you call it the best non-blue control deck???
I looks likes keeper without blue, and I don't have to explain what that does to the quality of the deck.

Seriously, black for just four cards is ridicilous if it means that it leaves you almost unable to run Blood Moon, the card that makes parfait playable in the current format.

I think this is much closer to optimal:

8 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
(1 Mana Crypt)

4 Tithe
4 Land Tax
4 Scroll Rack
3 Zuran Orb

4 Swords
4 Orim's Chant
4 Argivian Find
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Isochron Scepter

2 Humility
1 Moat
2 Blood Moon
2 Aura of Silence
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Balance

3 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Goblin Trenches

Sideboard:

More Seal of Cleansing / Abolish
Aura Fracture
Tormod's Crypt
More Blood Moon
Red Elemental Blast
Orim's Prayer (I you really hate Keeper  )

The lack of wastelands hurts, but turns the deck into a very fast killing machine. This deck can beat ever deck, but it's very dependend on it's draws and this also turns every match into one you can lose.

Koen\n\n

Logged
leakycow
Guest
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2003, 06:39:57 pm »

I remember hearing initially that people were running all basics to speed up the charbelcher kill when mirrodin was new.  Most of the lists I see in this thread run several strips, maybe a LoA, and even duals.

Those of you playing with a handful of non-basic lands...how is the charbelcher kill working?  Slow, but still better than mesa?
Logged
MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2003, 02:06:50 am »

I run 4 Dragon and 4 Tithe. It's really easy to have a deck with next to no land in it when you Belch.

@Thug: I said combo-control, not pure control deck.
Logged
Maxx Matt
Guest
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2003, 08:00:57 am »

@why not configuring the deck as K-Run suggested in the Rakso's Article?
Even if it seems not so stremlined, with all that redundancy I think that it is geared to face the metagame we are involved to...

Maybe he could lose to a first or second turn kill of a fast combo deck... but he can pratically side in all the side for the second & the third game... combo hate as gilded light, crypts, abolish ( not sure if needed... ) and the full set of abeyance and orim chant will be swapped with the useless creature removal and the impact of this huge number of cards in the matchup is really good as expected and the redndancy could easily overcome te Duress or FoW backup.

That configuration is perfect to face aggro deck and every creature with some Stupid/Broken/Frightening Abilities is blocked by the wall of StP, Humility and Balance.

It is so well balanced among Istant to imprint for the possible Scepter and Enchantment to recurr via A.FInd that I was astonished how well perform during man matchup.

The acceleration and the number of permenent that that deck could put in play in his first or second turn is high ad could easily compete with a strong first turn of a Workshop.Dec.

The engine is so focused on catching your lands from the pile that on an average 3 turn you don't have nothing else to fetch and could kill every opponent with a single shot of the charbleecher.

I'm not sold only on ht enumber of Zuran Orb of the deck. Every time I see one of them in my first turn hand I was the happiest among th Parfait plyers, but everytime I draw it after having fetched all my land I wished It would be another card. Maybe I can switch 1 Humilty and 1 Zuran orb with 2 Disenchant to have a better mtchup against stax

If the field that you face is really full of Control and Aggro control Decks I think that the swap of some less useful cards for 3 duress and a MInd Twist is necessary not to scoop to a huge opponent MindTwist and to let you resolve some key spells.\n\n

Logged
glenchuy
Guest
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2003, 07:16:24 pm »

i've tested the new parfait k-run is using and so far so good.

i missed the some old toys but the redundancy is good.
Quote
Quote The engine is so focused on catching your lands from the pile that on an average 3 turn you don't have nothing else to fetch and could kill every opponent with a single shot of the charbleecher.

yeah.  same results
Logged
Razor
Guest
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2003, 09:03:47 pm »

Please post a link to K-Run's latest version Parfait 'Belcher.
Logged
K-Run
Guest
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2003, 10:56:17 pm »

I guess it's time for me to chime in and make a few remarks about Deck Parfait.

The decklist posted in Rakso's article was a very undertested deck. When I first heard about Mirrodin, I thought it might be time to completely rebuild the Parfait archetype, even if I was having success with Evil Parfait. I wanted to make the most of Charbelcher and decided to build a budget version that would work without power.

The results were kind of deceiving. I had trouble killing subpar decks and the Scepter didn't impress me at all.

So I decided to go back to Evil Parfait, but with Charbelcher as the kill. I really like MoreFling's build; mine is similar to him.

Last week I finally decided to give a try to a variant I saw on the web. I played 3 Burning Wishes and it proved to be quite good, even with the deck being untuned.

I don't have that much time to play these days, but I encourage you all to try the Wishes. With enough playtest, this could become a nice deck.

Burnin' Parfait
(untuned version played on Nov 26th 2003)

        6 Plains
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Scrabbling Claws
        2 Zuran Orb
        3 Tithe
        3 Land Tax
        3 Argivian Find
        3 Duress
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Scroll Rack
        3 Burning Wish
        2 Aura of Silence
        2 Humility
        2 Goblin Charbelcher
        2 Eternal Dragon
        1 Vindicate
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Ivory Mask
        2 Plateau
        4 Scrubland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Wasteland
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Mountain
        1 Swamp
SB:  3 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Haunting Echoes
SB:  1 Ruination
SB:  1 Dust to Dust
SB:  1 Balance
SB:  3 Abolish
SB:  2 Pariah

I'm writing this without checking my actual deck but you get the idea.
Logged
glenchuy
Guest
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2003, 01:29:55 am »

err... is mask really that useful? i've cut it a long time ago, since i have problems bringing it out. it's also a dead card unless i bring it out on turn 1 or 2-
Logged
jpmeyer
fancy having a go at it?
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 2390


badplayermeyer
View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2003, 01:41:49 am »

Does this still count as Parfait?

        7 Plains
        1 Tolarian Academy

        4 Scroll Rack
        4 Chrome Mox
        4 Isochron Scepter
        4 Zuran Orb
        4 Goblin Charbelcher
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Mox Pearl

        4 Land Tax
        4 Orim's Chant
        4 Argivian Find
        4 Abeyance
        4 Disenchant
        3 Tithe
        1 Aura of Silence
        1 Balance
        1 Enlightened Tutor

It could use a ton of tuning as well as some StPs, but this is faster than Parfait has ever been.
Logged

Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
K-Run
Guest
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2003, 02:43:06 pm »

Bah... apparently they realized Burning Parfait would be too good  

I'm going back to Evil Parfait then...
Logged
Blackest Lotus
Guest
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2003, 12:45:11 am »

I have been wondering how well other people have been doing with Parfait, and could it actually become viable again with the format slowing down some?

Sidenote, how good of a sideboard card is Rule of Law now that Long (although not all Storm based combo) has been neutered? Would Tormod`s Crypt perhaps be a better decision now that Dragon seems to be getting the most attention as of late.\n\n

Logged
pernicious dude
Guest
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2003, 09:48:09 am »

JP -
In as much as Parfait is a Tax/Rack enchantment/artifact control deck,
I'd say sure, that's Parfait.

What to do for the other three Chrome Mox?
Off color moxen?
Logged
jshields
Guest
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2003, 07:00:02 pm »

what does parfait do in a heavy hulk smash, madness, and dragon environment?  I tried the goblin charbelchers, but they sucked royally, making me really want to return to the mesas badly
Logged
BreathWeapon
Guest
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2003, 07:50:52 pm »

Has anybody tried using 4 Raise the Alarm MD? Its a combo/kill with Scepter and a decent card in its own right vs Aggro. It could supplement a Belcher or Decree kill.

I also think MD Disenchants are a wise idea.
Logged
David Hernandez
Guest
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2003, 12:41:55 pm »

@BreathWeapon:  
Adding Disenchants might give you too many 2cc spells (beware CotV)...maybe Dismantling Blow is better, especially with the draw ability.  The only real problems with it is that it's slower and can't be imprinted on Scepter...

dave.\n\n

Logged
BreathWeapon
Guest
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2003, 12:53:19 pm »

Well, Chalice Keeper is dead and I wouldn't seriously consider this deck in an evironment sporting Workshops ... cuz it will die pretty hard. Maybe the Red Splash for Bloodmoons and R&R in the SB is the right way to go in a Workshop environment ... but it would still be slow as hell without Moxen and non-basics begging for Wasteland. No, Parfait definately doesn't belong in an environment with Workshops. Its still a budget deck at heart, so you really can't complain.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.06 seconds with 20 queries.