U/r Blood Moon Control

[PucktheCat]

When I saw the new B/R list I immediatly thought of Blood Moon.  The next morning reading the boards I noticed several others had thought the same thing.  The deck that makes the best use of Blood Moon is U/r control in the tradition of Urphidian.  I know this is getting played and tested, I have tested it myself, but I haven't seen any discussion of optimizing it for the new world of T1.  Hopefully this thread will move us towards a clearer understanding of how the archetype should be built.

The way I see it the core of a U/r Bloodmoon deck looks something like this:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2-3 Blood Moon
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
2-3 Fire/Ice

7 SoLoMoxen
15 U-producing lands
2-3 Strips

That's only 35-36 cards assigned for certain in this archetype.  In the remaining 25 or so cards this deck needs to find a draw engine, a win condition and some supplemental control measures to back up the counterspells.  The choices for these are suprisingly open considering this deck only runs two colors:

Draw/Search:
Accumulated Knowledge with or without Intuition (this keeps wanting to work its way back to the top of T1)
Ophidian (too slow?)
Isochron Scepter (this seems a natural for a deck that relys on Fire/Ice for removal)
Keeper-style one-ofs (does this deck want Library? FoF?)
Brainstorm/Impulse (one of these seems a natural fit)

Win Condition:
Morphling (the old standby, probably the fastest choice available)
Isochron Scepter w/ Fire
Ophidian/Gorilla Shaman BEATDOWN (maybe not . . .)

Utility/Supplemental Control:
Cunning Wish (good with Scepter if included)
Chalice of the Void (seems natural to include in a two color control deck with few 1cc spells . . .)
Stifle (stops Fetchlands . . .)
Second tier counterspells (probably not . . .)
Gorilla Shaman (with Chalice?)

I am sure there are possibilities I am missing, but you get the idea.  There are a lot of possible combinations and a surprising number get past a cursory examination.  I have been testing a Scepter/AK/Chalice/Wish version that I am enjoying.  What have YOU been testing?  How has it performed?

Leo\n\n

[Dr. Sylvan]

I would consider the following additions:

   2 Gorilla Shaman - In case an opponent decides to take advantage of the clustering at cmc 2.
   4 Ophidian - A perfectly fine draw engine vs. control and always a big back end against hordes of two-power creatures.
   Impulse/Brainstorm - I'll put myself in the Impulse camp, since you won't be running many shuffle effects and want to dig as deeply as possible for the next needed card.
   3 Isochron Scepter - Such a house with this many instants flying around. This would also remove the need for some alternative maindeck aggro solution like Powder Keg. If Scepters are employed, Cunning Wish would be worth it.
   Counterspell? - This deck acts like it wants to say no rather than deal with a permanent. It's either this or Mana Leak.
   2-4 Chalice (sideboard) - I think these would get in the way in the maindeck, and would especially be annoying in the Dragon matchup when you would rather draw something else.

As for LoA, I think it will be tough to maintain a 7-card hand. Fact or Fiction isn't as good hear with just the one copy, since Impulse digs almost the same amount for half the mana, and gets you the most important card anyway. I don't think this deck really would take advantage of the Intuition/AK engine, so Impulse and Scepter is my pick there.

Stifle is a card that I'm unsure of. To start with I would try two in the maindeck as mana denial / Dragon hate.

-Phil

[BreathWeapon]

I don't think there is anyone that isn't scrambling to optimize U/r Scepter.dec

Here is my personal can of whoop ass,

"Phid is Dead.dec"

Control (8)
4xForce of Will
4xManadrain

Draw/Search (6)
3xCunning Wish
4xBrainstorm
1xTimewalk
1xAncestral Recall

Engine (4)
4xIsochron Scepter

Utility (9)
4xFire/Ice
3xStifle
2xGorilla Shaman

Bombs (2)
2xBloodmoon

Kill (2)
2xMorphling

Mana (26)
7xSoLoMoxen
1xStrip Mine
4xWasteland
5xFetch Lands
4xVolcanic Islands
5xIsland

Sideboard
2xBloodmoon
2xTormod's Crypt
1xFact or Fiction
1xMisdirection
1xRack and Ruin
4xRed Elemental Blast
2xHurkyl's Recall
1xBoomerang
1xStifle

Edit: Stifle is AWESOME. I cut AK for 3 and a Scroll.

Edit: I cut LoA and Academy for Islands, they weren't very good at all in this deck. This deck depletes its hand too fast for LoA to be good early, and even when I got a first turn LoA drop I would have rather of had U for a Stifle. Tolarian Academy was so so, it was a late game card that had poor synergy with Bloodmoon ... so it got the axe.

Edit: Cut a Hurkyl for a Stroke. I needed to find my win condtion faster to finish off my opponent, timed match play is the SUCK.

Edit: Cut Merchant Scroll and Mystical Tutor for 2xFuture Sight. Merchant Scroll and Mystical are just too slow to find answers, and Future Sight wins games. If people are debating whether or not Mystical has a place in Keeper, with even less viable targets in U/r I think it should be cut. It doesn't have quality targets to search for. No DoJ, no Yawg Win, no Mind Twist, no Balance and no STP ... so what is it really doing?

Edit: With 2xFuture Sight, Stroke in the SB wasn't necessary. After finding 2xHurkyl's sufficient vs Prison, I added a 4th REB in its place.

Edit: Alright, after playing numerous match ups vs the Neo-Budget decks, I have been forced to make numerous changes in order to weather the hate. 2xMorphling is a necessity. I need to find my Win Condition faster than other Scepter based decks. I want to be able to comfortably pitch my win condition to FoW, because U/r Scepter is more reliant on FoW than its contemporaries. 4th Fire/Ice is in for multiple reasons. I needed it vs Goblins badly. An unchecked Lackey or Goblin Vandal would MAUL me a little too often for my tastes. While Stifle is the SHIT vs Siege-Gang, I just needed more umph. Thankfuly, a friend of mine reminded me of Boomerang, which has been an awesome Wish target. I can't tell you how much this card ownz. It opens a new dimension to your LD threats, it deals with FAT creatures like Tubbies and 12/12s, and it even picks up random enchantments. Now, one thing this deck really lacks in comparison to other Scepter decks are universal BOMBS; Balance, Yawg Win, M.Twist and Future Sights. You also have no tutoring, Demonic and Mystical. Your really going to have to bank on your Stifles and Bloodmoons to make up for these losses. U/r Scepter isn't as BROKEN as its cousins, but it is a very precise killing machine that will shine in the right hands. It follows a very exacting mentality, decrease your winning percentage vs Mask to gain an edge vs the Chronic, Dragon and Workshop. I am completely happy with my SB, and have one last thing I want to try with the MD. I want to be absolutely sure that 2xFuture Sight can't be used in the place of the Morphlings as Kill Conditions. Its a REALLY scary proposition to rely on a Scepter with Fire/Ice as the decks primary Win Condition, but i'm not sure its out of the question yet. Future Sight is one broke card, and it has the ability to set up ridiculous board position. Raise the Alarm can be put in the SB at the cost of a REB or Hurkyl's to make this an ever stronger possibility.

This deck will be MAD GOOD come Jan 1st yo \n\n

[wuaffiliate]

ive been messing with Ur scepter for abit and came up with this:

4x scepter
3x bloodmoon
3x cwish

4x fire/ice
4x brainstorm

1x ancestral
1x walk
1x mystical

4x manadrain
4x counterspell
4x fow

5x strips
5x fetch
4x v island
4x island
1x loa
7x solomo

SB something like this:
purge
swords
vamp
beb
reb
shattering pulse
boomerang
stifle(s)
RnRs

ive had no time to test lately, so this is purely pen and notepad work. i believe the deck need alot of counters to be viable, its a slow but very reliable kill with the wishboard. i like AKs, but with storm and f/i i think the deck should draw enough, and more reliably, f/i has flexibility AK doesnt, in being a threat and a draw engine.

just some ideas.

[PucktheCat]

Good responses so far!

Does anyone think that running both Isochron Scepter and Accumulated Knowledge trades too much tempo in the early game?  In particular two early games scare me right off the bat, Spoils Mask and Dragon.

This deck has a great long game against Dragon due to Blood Moon, but is it too midgame loaded to deal with the first turn Duress, second turn Bazaar-Animate-GG?

The game against Mask seems pretty hopeless.  Blood Moon is dead and the only removal that is relevant is Cunning Wish or Scepter with Ice.  That’s pretty thin.  What do people think about these two matchups?

Leo

[Kerzkid11]

I still don't like cunning wish in UR decks, it doesnt seem like it has enough viable targets.

Here is my list, because everyone else is posting theirs.

Kerz UR Control

//Land/Mana Sources
8 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

//Draw
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge

//Counter
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Drain

//Win
2 Morphling

//Utility/Other
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Blood Moon
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Time Walk

//Removal
3 Fire/Ice

//Sideboard
4 Rack and Ruin
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Flametongue Kavu

Fling =  

Is there any better kill condition? Fire/Ice + Scepter is too slow, as is Monkey beats.

[Matt The Great]

If I were going to make a U/r control deck, I'd want at least two Shamans. Probably three.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Quote (Kerzkid11 @ Dec. 03 2003,14:13)I still don't like cunning wish in UR decks, it doesnt seem like it has enough viable targets.

The point is that with Scepter, you ignore color requirements. As long as you don't go overboard and pack your board entirely with instants that have no relation to your actual colors, this plan is fine.

Quote Is there any better kill condition? Fire/Ice + Scepter is too slow, as is Monkey beats.

Charbelcher perhaps? Morphling feels wrong nowadays.

[PucktheCat]

Here is a janky, janky kill mechanism I have been toying around with for fun.  I don't advise trying it at home unless you are willing to be laughed at.  You can sideboard a Raise the Alarm to imprint on Scepter.  That is super stupid, I know, but it raises an interesting point.  I have considered adding a single Underground Sea or Tundra to the deck and adding Wish/Imprint bait that I could cast in these off colors.  This would be the ultimate sideboard decadence if you did do it, because you would simply be accepting that you might not be able to cast these cards in some circumstances, but considering it is the decks only chance to get Graveyard hate or a way to kill an Arrogant Wurm first game I think it is not ENTIRELY without merit.

Leo

Edit:  Yes, I know KerzKid doesn't run Cunning Wish, but the post is making a more general point.

Edit: @wuaffliate:  Isn't Ebony Charm strictly superior to Coffin Purge in a deck that can't flash it back?\n\n

[BreathWeapon]

@AK, I'm still deliberating on AK in the deck. It has been outrageous card advantage with Scepter ... but it definately feels like its a win more set up. I refuse to use Mana Leak, in its place, for several reasosns. First, if I pull Land + Mox I'd rather drop a Scepter first turn and play aggressivley game 1. It gives me board advantage and protects my hand from Unmask/Hymn/Duress. Second, game 2 REB is infinately better than Mana Leak vs most decks and it is often the first card I cut for SB Hate. 3rd, Mana Leak on a Scepter is pretty pathetic. 4th, Stifle has proven itself as a total HOUSE vs almost every deck in the format. So, if I were to drop AK, which is probably the correct decision ... I would run 3 Stifle and 1 Merchant Scroll in their place.

@ Cunning Wish, if you don't use this card in a Scepter deck your insane. Not only does it have enough good targets to grab, my SB will PWN Jan 1st Meta, but it also has fantastic synergy with Scepter.

@ 4 Fire/Ice MD. I know Fire/Ice is the BOMB with Scepter, but I like having 1 in the SB to Cunning Wish for. Its saved my life more than once from the SB, as it is your Wishable kill condition/draw engine con Scepter. I think the 3/1 split is right.

@ Spoils Mask, its not as hopeless as you might think. If you go first, Land + Mox = Scepter/Ice and you should be good to go. After the SB 3 Hurkyl's and the 4th Fire/Ice will add to the ruckus. Its not your favorite match up, but i'd say its within the 40/60 range. Maybe even better with Spoils sneaking an extra game win for you here and there.

@ Kill condition. With Scepter/Fire and 2 Gorilla Shaman a single Morphling is more than enough to bring the game home. 2 is redudant, as I have won entire games by only using the Scepter/Fire or Gorilla beats. Charbelcher seems wrong, why would you include a kill condition that is open to Artifact Hate?
I actually want to use the 1 Morphling I own for once \n\n

[suicide_slushy]

Here is the list Ii've been testing

//NAME: Scepter.Dec
SB:  4 Blood Moon
SB:  4 Shattering Pulse
SB:  3 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  4 Red Elemental Blast
        1 Gorilla Shaman
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        4 Impulse
        4 Fire / Ice
        4 Accumulated Knowledge
        1 Merchant Scroll
        4 Isochron Scepter
        4 Mana Leak
        4 Counterspell
        4 Force of Will
        2 Morphling
        1 Flooded Strand
        6 Island
        1 Strip Mine
        3 Wasteland
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Volcanic Island
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Black Lotus

I'm not using drains because there aren't a whole lot of sinks.
Leaks are great as with them and FoW you have a good chance of having a playable counter for your opponent turn 2, even when going second.  

Cunning wish---> scepter---> activation is too slow for my taste so they have been left out.  

There is so much stuff I'd like to add, but not alot I'd like to cut...\n\n

[Ultima]

Mana Leak and a full set of moxen should definitely be included because of its 1st turn ability to go online.

Just as it was already said, there seems to be too much mid-game answers but no early game making mana leak a must.

my .02

[ump]

I had a post-GenCon UrPhid that I abandoned when Keeper got better that was pretty good over here.  Fix the win condition and replace Ophidian with Scepters and here's what you have.

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Volcanic Island
2 Shivan Reef
7 Island
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Stifle
4 Mana Leak
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Fork
4 Fire/Ice
2 Blood Moon
1 Boomerang
4 Isochron Scepter

[BreathWeapon]

Given the current metagame Ultima, do you really think Mana Leak can justify itself over Stifle? Stifle is an isntant Sinkhole for U vs Fetch Lands and protects your manabase vs Strip Mine at the least. On top of that, it is a late game BOMB vs Dragon MD. I think those are pretty important aspects come Jan 1st, where LD is going to be insanely good and Dragon will be THE combo deck.

Mana Leak vs Stifle, FIGHT!

[PucktheCat]

Has anyone tried Chalice in the maindeck?  My thinking is that it is almost certainly stronger in this deck than in Keeper.  Look at the facts:

1.  This deck has less answers available than Keeper.  That makes universal answers more important here than in Keeper.

2.  This deck is almost without a 1cc slot compared to Keeper.  There are very few decks for which this true in T1.  That makes Chalice for 1 a huge play against almost everything.

3.  This deck runs Blood Moon.  That makes the ability of Chalice to hose Moxen/Lotus particularly relevant.

On the other hand this might not be the metagame for Chalice.  Dragon isn't fazed by it enough for my tastes (although even Duress and Swarm are enough to make me consider it).

What do people think?

Leo

Edit: On the issue of Mana Leak I think I should point out that BM + Mana Leak is not a combo.  Back to Basics + Mana Leak; combo.  Blood Moon + Mana Leak; not.\n\n

[David Hernandez]

Puck:
Zherbus suggested Raise the Alarm on Scepter in the Meddling Scepter thread:

http://www.themanadrain.com/cgi-bin....t=12070

I've tested it and find that it's great if you run 2 in the SB, and wish for it.  Otherwise you run the risk of having it in your hand when you really need some other form of utility.

--dave.

[BreathWeapon]

Raise the Alarm on a Scepter is a fine idea, its actually my kill condition in Parfait.

@ CotV, whether or not control decks want to include Chalice MD or SB will greatly depend on post Jan 1 combo. If Spoils-Dragon is indeed the #1 Combo deck, and Spoils-Mask gains ground then it is an easy sideboard option. I really think that Stifle and Gorilla Shaman are too pivotal right now to crowd them out with Chalice = 1. As far hosing Moxen, its a symmetrical effect and thats why you have Mox Monkey at 2x.

[Tindemans]

My list was in the top 8 of Eindhoven last sunday, I finished 4th; I was quite satisfied, since I only lost a match to r/g beats which is simply did not expect.

Bloody Scepter:

4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
3 volcanic Island
6 Island
1 Plains
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Blood Moon
4 Isochron Scepter
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Cunning Wish
2 Fire/Ice
1 Balance
1 Decree of Justice
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
SB:
1 Fire/Ice
1 Raise the Alarm
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Disenchant
1 Abeyance
1 Stifle
1 Hydroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroblast


Arthur.

[Ultima]

@BreathWeapon

Actually, in point to fact I never said that mana leak should be run over stifle.  I simply stated that mana leak is a must in this deck because of its ability to go online first turn.

As you can see, both counters can be implemented such as in Tindermans list.

[BreathWeapon]

I must be missing something, I don't see either Mana Leak or Stifle MD in Tindemans list.

Has anybody else tried using Tolarian Academy? I've been pretty happy with it.

[PucktheCat]

On Raise the Alarm:  I think it is a great call in decks that can actually cast it (Meddling Scepter, Parfait).  I think it is pretty sketchy in a deck that runs no way to cast it other than a Pearl.  That being said, splashing white is an option that seems more and more compelling now that we have Tindemans' list for it in addition to my bit of testing.

@Tindemans:  I like that list a lot.  A whole lot.  It is everything my list was working towards becoming (I cut Chalice last night in testing).  The only thing I would miss with your list is a second Monkey.  Any thoughts on that?  I find the Monkey to be Blood Moon's best friend.

On Cunning Wish:  This is slow sometimes, I agree, but how does this deck deal with permanents otherwise?  Tindemans' list even splashed White just for more removal because without it stupid things like Stormbind or whatever are just game against you.  Any thoughts on this?

On our game vs. Spoils Mask:  The whole idea that Scepter/Ice is any kind of a strategy against Mask is pretty unsound.  Look at the facts.  First of all both decks are trying to resolve a 2cc artifact with another card that combos with it.  In a race like that one the deck most focused on its goal will win.  Any doubt whether Mask or U/r is more focused on accelerating, tutoring for, and forcing through a two card combo?  Second, even IF the decks both resolve their artifacts (in other words against the odds U/r gets Scepter around the same turn Mask gets the Dreadnought) it is debatable whether the game is in the U/r decks favor.  U/r has one creature taken care of and a draw engine, but Mask has a Mask and 7 threat cards that can't be countered.  Finally, the advantage swing if U/r resolves a Scepter/Ice before Mask gets its combo pales in comparison to what happens in the reverse situation, when Mask resolves it first.  I the former situation U/r gains a bit of card advantage gradually while in the later it is put on a 2 turn clock.

Some of you may be saying that I am assuming that the Mask doesn't get countered.  I don't think that assumption is needed, however.  Mask's disruption (4 Duress, 4 Unmask, 4 Hymn) is just better for getting a single card through a counterwall and breaking up two card combos like Scepter/Ice than 4 Force, 4 Drain is at stopping such a combo and protecting its hand.  And of course 4 Spoils is better tutoring than U/r can bring to the table.

The only thing that brings the slightest bit of light to this situation is Cunning Wish because it can actually remove a Mask and Dreadnought so that you can use your counterspells again and your Ice can serve as a powerful backup plan.  Even so I think anyone who sees much Spoils Mask should either seriously invest in about 15 Maze of Ith (or at least several Rack and Ruin) for the SB or play a different deck.

Leo

Edit:  Tindemans, I just noticed your deck is 61 cards and has no Mox Jet.  Were these intentional?  Also, you run no strips which seems a bit risky to me even in a deck with 3x Blood Moon.  Have you found that to be a problem?\n\n

[BreathWeapon]

Doesn't Stifle prevent the Naught from turning face up after it attacks?

Nevertheless, I agree that counting on Scepter/Ice/Stifle is not a game plan vs Mask. However, you still have Cunning Wish in 3x as you mentioned. I don't think the matchup is favorable, but I do think its playable. 40/60 their favor probably. I'm really counting on Spoils lowering their win percentage vs us, you can't forget that Mask has to face its auto loss percentage from a tutor gone bad.

This is one match up where the Chronic is greatly favored over U/r Scepter on account of STP MD. I may cut a Hurkyl's for Rack&Ruin to help deal with this dilemna.

On Raise the Alarm, if its not apart of your decks main strategy, like Isochron Parfat with 4xRaise the Alarm, its not worth playing. Why would you ever wish for Raise the Alarm over Abeyance?

[Milton]

OK, I have followed this discussion for the past few days and I feel I need to chime in on a couple issues.  When deciding if U/R phid is good we need to look at a few factors.  It seems that many people are just building decks around a couple of cards and that they are ignoring the metagame and the synergy of their decks.

1) How good is Bloodmoon right now?  I think the consensus is that Bloodmoon is phenomonal in the current meta, yet I find myself questioning why that is.  Bloodmoon won't help against really, really fast combo decks like Dragon or multi-colored Mask unless you can play a Bloodmoon really early (like turn 2).  By turn 7 or 8 you are already in control and don't have to worry about playing a Bloodmoon.  So, the focus of Phid agaisnt Dragon or Mask should be simply surviving into the mid game past the first few turns.  Yes, Bloodmoon can be a Dragon killer but it is not a good card for the early game.  

     Bloodmoon is good at disrupting Keeper, but Keeper isn't really a weakness for Phid.  Bloodmoon disrupts Hulk, but Hulk has fetchlands and will splash an Island or two in some cases.  If Hulk is prepared for Wastelands then they will turn their first Fetchland into an Island to stabalize.  Hulk can run off one Island (Brainstorm, AK, DA, Cunning Wish for Blue Blast).  Since Wastelands are everywhere right now I fully expect my opponent to be packing some basic lands.

     So, what else is Bloodmoon good against?  After testing with Bloodmoon I found it to be a poor card choice for the current meta.  Wastelands and Strips can give Phid the early game stall against Dragon.  Maindeck Stifle is also great if Dragon is a concern.

2) How good is Gorilla Shaman right now?  This card is phenomonal.  It is an all purpose card that is great against Stax, Welder MUD, Keeper, Hulk.  It is good agasint Goblins (a first turn blocker to their first turn Lackey).  It applies pressure, kills Challices for 1 and generally does a nice job against just about everything.  So, Shaman is a must.  Now, how many?  2 or 3?  Probabally not 4.

3) The Cunning Wish question.  I have also found that Cunning Wish is a nice option for dealing with problems.  In fact, I have never once lost to Mask because I can Cunning Wish for Dominate, Rack and Ruin or even Hurkyls Recall.  Some prefer to play Control Magic or Powder Keg maindeck.  I prefer Cunning Wish.  

4) Number of draw spells?  I like 9, not counting the 4 Ophidians.  That's a total of 13.  4 Phids, 4 Brainstorm, 1 Ancestral and 4 Other (I like AK, but I'm currently using Standstill).  It is a mistake to think that you can outdraw a good opponent with only 4 Phids, 4 Brainstorms and 1 Ancestral.  You really need an additional 4 card drawing spells.

5) Number of counters?  Conventional wisdom puts this number between 12 and 16.  Is Stifle a counter?  I don't know.  For the purposes of this argument we will call it a counter.  Traditionally we use 4 Drain, 4 Force and 4 other (usually a combination of Misdirections and Counterspells, possibly Mana Leak, sometimes some really bizzare counters).

 -Stifle gives us a very nice option, but I am still a little hessitant with Stifle.  You hate to be holding just two Stifles in your hand as your opponent, with no cards in hand, top-decks his Yag Will or a Tog or a whatever.  But it is good for the early game.  
-Can we go below 12 counters?  With Cunning Wish, maybe we can.  
-How good is Misdirection in the current meta?  My testing shows that Misdirection is very, very under-rated right now.  If you haven't tested with Misdirection in a while, try it again.  

6) How good is Challice of the Void in Phid?  I found it to be very, very poor, even as a sideboard card.  

7) How good is Scepter in Phid?  Once again, I found it to be very, very poor.  If you can cast a Scepter with a Fire/Ice you can do some neat things, but just casting the Fire/Ice in the first place will usually accomplish the same short-term goal.  Scepter is often dead, whereas AK, Brainstorm or another draw card is almost always useable.  

8) How much space should be given to control cards?  This is clearly metagame dependant.

So, my Phid deck right now looks like this:

Mana: 26
4 Fetchlands
2 Islands
4 Volcanic Islands
4 Wastelands
1 Stripmine
1 Library of Alexanderia
5 Moxes
1 Lotus
4 Mishar's Factories

Card Drawing: 13
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Ophidian

Board Control: 6
3 Gorilla Shaman
3 Fire/Ice

Permission: 11
4 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection

Other: 4
1 Time Walk
3 Cunning Wish

Board:
1 Dominate
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Psionic Blast
2 Red Blasts
1 Blue Blast
1 Misdirection
1 Gush
1 Stifle
1 Fire/Ice
4 Null Rod

This deck doesn't run Mana Drain, instead favoring the ability to cast an early Mana Leak off a Land/Mox drop.  Also, this deck runs Factories and Standstill, which many people just don't like.  I, however, have found that a first turn Mox, Land, Standstill is a phenomonally good play against MUD, Mask, Long... anything really.  Lastly, this deck has the ability to play a turn 1 Null Rod, creating a more favorable match-up against Long (which is dead in a month).

It took Jamino and I, along with Ruboina, a while to come up with this deck but it is very good.\n\n

[PucktheCat]

Thanks for the reply, Milton.

I agree with most of the points you make, but I do have some I disagree with.

Blood Moon:  Obviously this card is one that you have to decide on before you play this deck.  I can't think of any reason to play this deck over a 3-4 color control build other than Blood Moon.  Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will and Decree of Justice alone are enough to make me want my other colors back.  If your metagame is resistant to Blood Moon don't play this.

That being said, I think you underestimate this card.  Against Dragon it completely shuts down their long-game strategy.  Against control Dragon likes do get Squee/Bazaar going and try to win without having all its permanents removed from the game.  This stops that.  It also substantially weakens most of the Gay/r builds out there and even hurts the mono-U versions because it stops manlands.  Against Keeper and Hulk (and GAT) it is not game over, but it is a strong card, certainly worth playing in some metagames.  Finally, Blood Moon is better than you would expect against Workshop decks.  Gorilla Shaman + Blood Moon makes all of wMUD’s mana denial effects non-symmetrical in your favor.

Scepter:  What you say about Scepter vs. AK or other draw spells is certainly true.  However Scepter isn’t really competing with these cards for slots.  The slots it is fighting for are those of mid-game steady card advantage engine cards.  In your build, that would be Ophidian.  I see your points though, Scepter feels to me like a combo card in this deck.  When you draw right with it you win really convincingly.  When you draw wrong it loses you the game.

Gorilla Shaman:  I agree 100% about Gorilla Shaman.  It also works very well with Blood Moon  .

Misdirection over Mana Drain:  This makes NO sense to me.  This metagame is NOT full of targeted spells as far as I can see.  This deck clearly likes colorless acceleration, otherwise you wouldn’t be playing the full set of jewelry.\n\n

[Grand Inquisitor]

@Milton, I think the deck looks sound, but this takes URphid in a completely different direction.

Traditionally, Urphid has been a bloodmoon deck.  It thrives in metagames where non-basic lands and control decks are plentiful.  By not using bloodmoon, you're really talking about a different strategy.  Yours seems a lot more like landstill, except that many of your card choices make you vulnerable.  

Quote Bloodmoon is good at disrupting Keeper, but Keeper isn't really a weakness for Phid

Keeper isn't a weakness because of bloodmoon.  As has been said before, Urphid needs bloodmoon, because otherwise its less powerful than Keeper, Hulk, GAT, etc.  The absence of powerful broken cards is what requires that Urphid play mana-denial and try to out-counter everything.

If an opponent manages to get a creature down with toughness 2 or greater, then you have 12 dead cards: 4x standstill, 4x mishra's factory, 4x ophidian.

Quote Board Control: 6
3 Gorilla Shaman
3 Fire/Ice

Goblin Lackey is about the only thing I'd consider the Shaman board control against.  He's mana-denial.  He won't take you from a losing position and allow you to cast standstill.

The fire/ice are good, but its really the wishes that are going to bail you out when something slips through the counterwall.

Quote Permission: 11
4 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection

This is pretty solid, and the other maindeck choices certainly negate the need for mana drain's acceleration.  However, this is still a deck that wants to play in the mid-late game.  Once they develop a mana base that makes four (4) hard counters, which is much too little for a deck that needs the board clear.

Quote Stifle gives us a very nice option, but I am still a little hessitant with Stifle.  You hate to be holding just two Stifles in your hand as your opponent, with no cards in hand, top-decks his Yag Will or a Tog or a whatever.  But it is good for the early game.  
-Can we go below 12 counters?  With Cunning Wish, maybe we can.  
-How good is Misdirection in the current meta?  My testing shows that Misdirection is very, very under-rated right now.  If you haven't tested with Misdirection in a while, try it again

I completely agree with you about misdirection, its great in any environment where you plan to see lots of control decks.  Stifle, however, has been really good, in spite of my pessimism.  It stops everything dragon, can be land destruction, and can even be a 'counterspell' when someone tries to fetch in response to your spell.  It also protects your lands (factories) when you're short on them.

Obviously you and others have tested this quite a bit, however, its a completely different philosophy than Urphid with bloodmoons (where scepter IS a good card).

This seems overly tweaked to beat prison, fast combo, and maybe straight control.  It looks really weak against anything aggro (some of us still worry about round 1) and more aggro/combo control decks.\n\n

[Dante]

Quote (BreathWeapon @ Dec. 04 2003,12:29)Doesn't Stifle prevent the Naught from turning face up after it attacks?

Not sure if that's an activated ability, but even if it was, they can just do it again.  E.G. the mask player attacks and before damage on stack, when he has priority, flips the nought.  Even if you could stifle that, once he gets priority again, the mask player will just flip it again.

[BreathWeapon]

Eh, i'll have to run it to the rules mill, tho' I think your right. What happens if you Stifle the Mask activation? They just have to pay another 1cc to drop the Dread?

[Akuma (gio)]

I think Stifle is a not a good option against Mask. Turning the Dreadnought over does not require you to use the stack or make any sort of payment. So if you Stifle the "flip" (that is, if you can even attempt to), the Mask player can just do it over and over again.

You can Stifle the put's into play ability of the Mask, the Mask player just has to pay the cost again. This can be relevant if the Mask player does not have enough mana to pay for the activation again.

[PucktheCat]

Quote (BreathWeapon @ Dec. 04 2003,14:53)Eh, i'll have to run it to the rules mill, tho' I think your right. What happens if you Stifle the Mask activation? They just have to pay another 1cc to drop the Dread?

That is correct.  The only thing that is lost when you counter an activated ability are the costs.  The only cost to put the 'nought in play is one colorless mana.

Dante is right about Stifling the flip, too.  There are two possible cases:  1. flipping a creature isn't an activated ability.  In this case Stifle can't even target it.  2.  flipping a creature is an activated ability with no cost.  In this case they can simply use it as many times as they need to to get the 12/12 into play.

Leo

[pernicious dude]

The controller may turn it face up any time that player has priority. This action does not go on the stack. [CompRules 2001/07/23 - 504.3]