Pillar Sligh

[waSP]

My Chrome Mox sligh got killed with the January restrictions, so  I need a new red deck to toy with.

Because I hate 'Tog so much I decided to see if I could come up with a semi mono-red build that punishes the deck without giving up too much against its other matchups.

My experience has shown that Pyrostatic Pillar can be dead for the Tog player, if dropped early.  Why not double the fun and play 8 of them!?

Here's my current list, for pillar abuse.

// Mana
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        4 Mountain
       4 Wasteland
        1 Volcanic Island
       1 Strip Mine
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Ruby
// Creatures
        4 Slith Firewalker
        4 Mishra's Factory
        3 Grim Lavamancer
        3 Gorilla Shaman
// Don't Play Spells!
        4 Pyrostatic Pillar
        4 Spellshock
// SRB
        4 Lightning Bolt
        4 Isochron Scepter
        3 Shrapnel Blast
        3 Incinerate
        3 Fire/Ice

Fire/Ice is broken!  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Slith Firewalker is instantly the best creature mono-red can have.  I'm too red light to play balls.  The mox monkeys and Grim Lavamancers are questionable, but they might be good enough at clearing the way for Slith's that I'll keep them (removal absorbers).

I'd like to get the initial thoughts of the members of the community interested in Sligh as I begin rigorous testing.  With Storm-based combo hate main, the sideboard also gets a little room.

I kind of want to add Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister back in, but I'm not sure how good they are right now.\n\n

[Tristal]

Any reason not to play one Chrome Mox?

Since you are playing Shrapnel Blast, would switching Mires for Great Furnaces be of any help?

Consider maindeck Blood Moon.  Kind of wrecks your Mishras, but "2R - Win the game" can be pretty good.

[BreathWeapon]

I tried the 8 Pillar idea in Stacker to combat Long and it worked alright. With the rise of Dragon tho', Ankh seems more prudent and its only 2 cc.

I'm glad somebody else agrees that Fire/Ice > Incinerate. I thought I was the alone in the world

Any thoughts on Ghitu Encampment? Man Land Beats 4Life \n\n

[bebe]

Does Standstill have a p;lace in this deck? Not sure what i would take out for them but they make sense.

[Browser]

Considering the direction the metagame should go post-Jan 1,  I would think fitting in Bloodmoons would be a priority.  Anyway, nice to see you're still innovating, Steve.

[dandan]

Just some thoughts from the testing I've done.

1. Mox Monkeys are still strong as they serve several purposes.
2. Strips are still very strong. All 5 of them.
3. Glad to see someone else using Mishra's Factories. Even with 5 strips which means occasional colour screw (not often but it happens) they are strong versus control and aggro (what aggro?) and no worse than anything else vs. combo.
4. Ankhs are still very good. (Dragon is strong, multicolout control is strong)
5. Chrome Mox is better than off colour Moxen. (see note below)
6. Lotus Petal is better than off colour Moxen. I think if I had 4 strips less like you then perhaps a Mox would be better but 4 Factories and 5 strips means you need to maximise your remaining Red producers.
7. Pups and Cadets are still your clock. I will test the Firewalkers but it doesn't pay to have too much at 2cc (or more). The 1/1s don't beat down nearly fast enough.
8. Blood Moon is strong but it costs 3 mana which brings back memories of Ball Lightning. So far I can only fit them in the SB.
Vandals are good if you see prison. They also help maximise your chances of getting out a turn 1 answer to Chalice.
9. The Scepter is better than Cursed Scrolls, but the Scrolls were too slow and the Scepter is only just a little faster.
10. Black Vise makes Ankhs, Pillars, strips, Mox Monkeys etc much more painful. Turn 1 Vise still wins a lot of games vs. control.

[waSP]

Maindeck Blood Moon is a nice consideration, but in doing that, I'd have to cut the Mishra's.  I don't see a suitable replacement anywhere, so I'm not sure I can.  Lotus Petal is most certainly not better than an off color, especially with the only RR necessary being the Firewalker.  Chrome Mox is nice, but I'd have to add more draw to make it work.

Slith Firewalker made Jackal Pup and Goblin Cadets obsolete.  I am in no way joking, exaggerating, nothing.  Slith Firewalker actually scares your opponent.  IF they don't deal with him quick, he WILL end the game.  Jackal Pup and Goblin Cadets are still weak in the environment, especially as Misdirection returns.

Isochron Scepter is amazing, don't tell me anything different.  First turn Scepter imprinting Fire/Ice or Shrapnel Blast will end the game very quickly.  As the metagame is turning towards control again, card advantage is good.

Bebe - An unreggie PM'd me a list for a Standstill version of this deck.  I will do a little testing with it this weekend and figure out if its better than my version.  It'd take more manlands for Standstill to work, decreasing the speed of the moxen.  We'll see.

[dandan]

I see no reason why Factories can't be in a Blood Moon version. They still function admirably as non-basic Mountains under a Blood Moon. It's not like you'd be running PoP and Blood Moon maindeck.

I tried to point out why I use Lotus Petal (which I hate BTW) and you may not need to. Frankly it has little to do with RR and everything to do with 1R. 9 colourless lands means that everything else must produce Red.

I need to test the Firewalker although I have my doubts. I could see it replacing the Cadets or Pups (depending on the metagame) but replacing both seems to be very optimistic. I stand by what I said a very long time ago, a metagame that is unfriendly to Cadets and Pups is not good for Sligh. It is clearly a solid candidate to consider for Sligh though. As I said, I need to test it.

I like the Scepter, I love it with Fire/Ice. However Sligh isn't about card advantage but tempo advantage (both starting fast and disrupting the opponent to stop them doing anything significant). I agree it is better than Cursed Scroll but I would love to know how Shrapnel Blast on a Scepter is card advantage. Frankly Scepter is a middle to late game card and Sligh doesn't win that many of those games. It is a strong card but far more in control decks and controllish aggro rather than aggro (control) decks IMHO.

I don't understand your point about Chrome Mox. It is in the deck to deploy disruption and punishers before control can get up a counter wall or prison can get a lock. You lose battles over card advantage except where you win before an opponent can use their cards. Again, remember I use less Red producing land than you so I really need that Red mana.

[waSP]

Scepter on Fire/Ice is extremely good tempo, giving you a Time Walk against control.  Tapping down one of their lands while you develop your mana base and draw cards is good tempo.  You aren't using it to control the game (unless stopping a dreadnought), but rather are controlling the pace of the game.

Scepter on Shrapnel Blast (with all my moxen) is card advantage because your opponent will not have the chance to cast the cards in their hand because their life total will be 0.  You know what I mean, try not to nitpick.

When is the late game?  Turn 5?  Sligh can easily win those by wearing down its opponents counter wall.  The problem is that Sligh will run out of resources before it can finish off its opponent.  The old goal of Sligh was to abuse its resources before its opponent could properly use theirs.  With the speeding up of the format, that is no longer a viable option.

[Maxx Matt]

@wasp. You have only 2 blu mana to allow you a lon term "Icying Plan" with Scepter and Fire/Ice. Does it work for you? with so much Strips effects all around I think that 2 fetchable Volcanic will let you not relying only on Firing things.

Which are the Sideboard Choices?
I think you'll plan to use Rack & Ruin and Detonate against Stax and Mask  and Blasts or Scalds against Blue Based Decks.

Another point: How do you Deal with a Sphere of Law? Seems that a resolved one would be game without so much exceptions...

[Dante]

Quote (Maxx Matt @ Dec. 06 2003,03:13)@wasp. You have only 2 blu mana to allow you a lon term "Icying Plan" with Scepter and Fire/Ice. Does it work for you? with so much Strips effects all around I think that 2 fetchable Volcanic will let you not relying only on Firing things.

Another point: How do you Deal with a Sphere of Law? Seems that a resolved one would be game without so much exceptions...

If you get Fire/Ice on the Scepter, you don't need blue mana, you can Fire or Ice for 2.

uumm....yah.... Sphere of Law.....  I'm pretty sure he's not worried about Sphere of Law (ok, maybe some people, but not wasp).

Bill

[dandan]

Sorry for the nitpick. I know exactly what you meant, but I am sure quite a few people here didn't.

I think the main difference between our decks is that you are geared up to abuse scepter whilst I ignore it. This is a big step from old Sligh of 2002, where Cursed Scroll was one of the key cards. I think the main difference is that back then you often squeeze out a early Scroll and use it later, whereas you want to use a Scepter as soon as you cast it. The presence of Cunning Wish is a problem as I doubt that you will be lucky enough to get a Scepter out and use it for long (indeed you are fairly likely to lose 2 artifacts).
Please do not misunderstand me, Scepter is a great card, I have tried it in Sligh and it is often amazing, just not often enough IMHO. The problem I have with Sligh at present is making sure I have enough early game damage that the mid-game is in my favour because of the continual threat of  an all-out damage assault to the dome.
Your Sligh has a far more potent arsenal than mine but is much slower (look at the average CCs) meaning that an early StP can cut off that crucial early damage. Whilst Sligh can and does win mid-game battles, it usually only does so because the opponent is severely limited in options (i.e. cannot tap out) because of the threat of multiple burn spells. You can't cast that many 2cc burn spells so both the early damage and the cards in hand threat are lesser in order to give the staying power that your version undoubtedly has.
Interestlingly enough, your version strongly reminds me of a version of Ur that I tried out a while back (dismantled because of Long) and the Ru options that a few people are suggesting may be the way to go for you.