Cheap Aggro that Wins - Stompy

[LoA]

I'm considering playing 4 Land Grants and 4 of the fetchlands actually.  The thinner this deck can get, the more gas it will draw.  Plus, since it's immune to Wasteland, the downside of playing the fetchlands really doesn't come into play.  I am tweaking my sideboard at the moment (Mtenda Lions looks decent), but cards I won't pull include 4 Null Rod.  Powder Keg can wreck this deck.  The old (generic) version was:

4x Null Rod
4x Rushwood Legate
4x Hidden Gibbons
3x Tanquil Domain

One thing I constantly faced was a ton of dead cards vs. Sligh and only 4 good cards in the SB to deal with it.  Mtenda Lion might go in just to give me more options in that match.  Clearly, Naturalize comes in for Tranquil Domain.  So, as of now, it's:

4x Null Rod
4x Mtenda Lion
4x Hidden Gibbons
3x Naturalize

This makes me weaker vs. Mono-U and Keeper, but I always felt that siding out your pump in lieu of cards like Rushwood Legate was iffy.  The reason you beat this decks is sheer speed, not disruption (like Suicide).  Some decks--Kaplan Sligh comes to mind--can get away with playing very differently in games 2 and 3 vs. Keeper/Mono-U simply because of the way the deck is put together and the options in the sideboard.

Unless you're seeing a ton of blue, I would pick Mtenda over Ridgeback.  Toughness is almost a non-issue for Stompy decks, and both cards have equal power.  If you do see a lot of blue, you should be playing Rushwoods anyway.

[The Dude]

Dude here

i am gonna start using the new fetchlands as soon as i find a couple floating around that search for green (as either g/r or g/w will work). i can see only a small disadvantage though, which is the anti-synergy with bountey.

maybe i'll end up goign redman's style and add bolts and apes, but only time will tell.

anyways. i can't see how anyone would NOT run dogs and ogres! if you give them to your opponent, your probably gonna loose anyways, and further more don't play dogs. if your going to cycle them, then you have lost or been mana flooded (which means YOU LOOSE anyways). ogres are strictly superior.

and in the board depending on your metagame, the new green disenchant blows supremely! in an enchantment based meta you should be playing scerene heart. in a meta where you need enchantment spot removal, you should be playing charm.

in the end stompy didn't get to much except an uncounterable land grant which is probably nothing to scoff at, but why can't we get a new critter or sumthin?

OH! and make sure to show you your protest to the war in iraq.:unclesam: is evil

later...


dude

[j_orlove]

Quote  in an enchantment based meta you should be playing scerene heart.

     

Serene Heart:

Destroy all local enchantments.


I think you meant:

Tranquil Domain:

Destory all global enchantments.


Naturalize is good because it destroys artifacts too, and not just enchantments. Remember 11 other slots in the SB > 7 other slots in the SB. And more space in the SB is good.

[LoA]

Very seldom do I find myself wishing for a way of getting rid of more than 1 enchantment, be it Moat, The Abyss, Worship, etc.  Naturalize does this just as well as Tranquil Domain and is much better vs. TnT and various mono-colored deck that will be packing 4 Kegs vs. you in games 2 and 3.

[FBI]

Fetchlands and Ghazban...

[The Dude]

dude here

wow. looked right on past the ogre/fetch prob. as well as the fact that i run 8 "free" cards, so the loss of green cards in the deck is a bad thing.

grants are looking a little more sexy, and yes i did mean Tranquil Domain (dumb mistake). and for the SB we already have null rod and hidden ancients to combat artifacts.and 11>7? of course but the 4 slots depend on metagame. if i were expecting enchantress, parfait, or sweet potato pie i would run tranquil domain. for things like oath i would be packing 4 emerald charm. it's a metagame choice. 8 enchantment killers is overkill.

LoA: obviously you haven't tested the parfait matchup yet.

for kicks:

4 elephant
4 boa
4 ogre
4 elite
4 lyrist
4 queer
4 dryad/gibbons
4 spirit guide

4 rancor
4 growth
4 bounty
4 grant

10 forest

looking for the best ogre replacement, deciding between dryad/gibbons, and testing the fetches VS grant and trying to find 2 more cards for the deck.

dude

[verlorene]

Quote (TheMadScotsman @ Oct. 02 2002,18:18)I play something like this:
4x Rogue Elephant
3x Wild Dogs
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x River Boa
2x Vineyard
4x Druid Lyrist (Maybe 7 of ten guysin my environment play mono-black.)
2x Blastoderm (again, my metagame- probably not yours.)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Hidden Gibbons
4x Rancor
4x Briar Shield
4x Giant Growth
3x Bounty of the Hunt
4x Land Grant
10x Forest

If so many people are playing MonoBlack here is a suggestion:
-4 Briar shield
-2 Blastoderm
-2 Vineyard (do you use this because of Blastoderm??)
-? Skyshroud Elite (with so many basic lands I dont see how these are useful)

+4 Whirling Dervish (protection form black and it grows)
+3 Winter Orb (black really needs its mana, fuck em hard)
+? Spectral Bears (no drawbacks)

[verlorene]

Quote (The Dude @ Oct. 03 2002,23:44)4 elephant
4 boa
4 ogre
4 elite
4 lyrist
4 queer
4 dryad/gibbons
4 spirit guide

4 rancor
4 growth
4 bounty
4 grant

10 forest

looking for the best ogre replacement, deciding between dryad/gibbons, and testing the fetches VS grant and trying to find 2 more cards for the deck.

dude

I first made Stompy last November, my version was pretty similar to the extended decks except that I ran 4 Hidded Gibbons maindeck and took out the standard 3 Vine Dryad since they sucked so bad. They are so good against cheap decks, if you drop one early look what it delays/prevents:

any MonoB - Dark Ritual, Consult, possibly Edict
MonoU - Counters, Impulse
Grow - Counters, Sleight of Hand, Opt, Brainstorm, Gush, Tithe, Swords
Stompy - instant pump*
R/G - instant direct damage and possibly pump
Sligh - all instant direct damage
WW: Swords and Disenchant (if you run Winter Orb)

*If you have a mirror match and use Vine Dryad over Hidden Gibbons you will be at a big disadvantage. Just think, they use instant pump and you get a 4/4. If you run Dryad it will probably get killed and you will have wasted a card to get it into play.

As for your 2 open slots, I would try to fit in 3 Winter Orbs and at least another Forest for 2 River Boa's (you don't want to have too many 2 cc cards).


Note: You said you have a scrubby metagame, I gave examples accordingly.

[dandan]

Stompy threads are easy, just answer the following:

Fetchlands:   Yes not sure how many (Ogres issue)
In place of:   Forests
Land Grant:   Yes
Ogres/Dogs:  Ogres (because of 1/1 creatures and Fire)
River Boa:     Probably yes based on metagame
Herd/Gibbons/Ridgeback/Other: Ridgebacks are guaranteed beats. Many metagames may demand Gibbons and some Herds
Vine Dryad:   Big NO
Briar Shield:   Maybe - fights with BotH number 4
Land:            9 + LG + ESG + Mox + Lotus
Lyrist/Naturalize/Other: Druid Lyrist main Naturalize SB
Stripmine:      No room
Loose/Lose:   Lose
Currently testing: that freaky 5/5 in the River Boa slot, so far either terrible or great which suggests a no-no. A lot of fun to try though  

[TheMadScotsman]

I don't like the fetchlands personaly, but that's prob'ly just me.  I run lyrists maindeck for moat/abyss, and will run naturalize SB.  I'll try whirling dervish SB for mono black if i can find room for it with crumble, charms, and legates.






Don't make the gnomes angry...

[The Dude]

dude here

Stompage
4x Rogue Elephant
4x Ghazban Ogre
4x River Boa
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Elvish Lyrist
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

4x Hidden Gibbons
4x Rancor
4x Giant Growth
4x Bounty of the Hunt
4x Land Grant

12x Forst

SB: 4x Hidden Guerillas
SB: 4x Null Rod
SB: 3x Emerald Charm
SB: 4x Rushwood Legate

that's the best possible i can see. i won't run fetches because the anti-synergy with ogre.

if TNT is played heavily swap gibbons for guarillas. or if all you dsee is mono blue same thing with legate.

i won't run naturalize SB, beacuase depending on the metagame charm or tranquile domain is better

dude

[LoA]

I guess it depends on what sort of black decks you see, but with a lot of Suicide decks siding 15 cards vs. Stompy and with 8 of those being Kegs and Masticores, I wonder if there are better options (like Naturalize...also pegs Dystopia) than Whirling Dervish.  I'm switching between Mtenda Lions and Rushwood Legates right now for the final 4 slots in the sideboard (x4 Null Rod, x3 Naturalize, x4 Hidden Gibbons are the other cards).  Skyshroud Elite, Gazban Ogre, and Hidden Herd are just so terrible vs. Sligh, I am thinking of Lions over Legates simply because I have fewer totally dead cards vs. Keeper and MonoU maindeck.

[verlorene]

Quote (LoA @ Oct. 07 2002,22:03)I guess it depends on what sort of black decks you see, but with a lot of Suicide decks siding 15 cards vs. Stompy and with 8 of those being Kegs and Masticores, I wonder if there are better options (like Naturalize...also pegs Dystopia) than Whirling Dervish.  

4 Null Rods should take care of Powder Keg and Masticore provided it is not hit by discard.

I was suggesting Whirling Dervish because TheMadScotsman said "Maybe 7 of ten guysin my environment play mono-black." and I thought he already had 4 Null Rods like most other people.  In a more varied environment they have no place in the sideboard, there is just not any room.

Quote (LoA @ Oct. 07 2002,22:03)I'm switching between Mtenda Lions and Rushwood Legates right now for the final 4 slots in the sideboard (x4 Null Rod, x3 Naturalize, x4 Hidden Gibbons are the other cards).  Skyshroud Elite, Gazban Ogre, and Hidden Herd are just so terrible vs. Sligh, I am thinking of Lions over Legates simply because I have fewer totally dead cards vs. Keeper and MonoU maindeck.

I would go with the Lions since they are actually castable when not facing Keeper and MonoU. By the way, I really like your sideboard. I'm stealing it

[nicken]

Sure the fetchlands don't jive with the ogres but how often do you get a hand containing a fetchland and no other creatures but but Jazzman?

IMO, fetchlands are worth it.

Often, the stompy players have more life than the other guy by the end of turn 2's attack phase.

[LoA]

In my testing with the new fetchlands, Stompy very rarely finds itself in a donate your Ogre or mulligan situation (assuming you don't run Wild Dogs).  Hell, even a turn 1 Lyrist can beat for 1 and then make things safe for the Ogre to come out.  So my (test deck, so it's very typical) Stompy looks like:

4x Gazban Ogre
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Hidden Herd
2x Druid Lyrist
2x Elven Lyrist
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Rogue Elephant
4x River Boa

4x Rancor
4x Giant Growth
4x Bounty of the Hunt

4x Land Grant
4x Wooded Foothills
8x Forest

--sideboard--
4x Null Rod
4x Mtenda Lion
4x Hidden Gibbons
3x Naturalize

The sideboard can be debated depending on local metagame, but I'm fairly confident with the maindeck--keeping in mind this is a test deck (although I tore my fully-powered Keeper apart with it today.  2 Hidden Herd on turn one before Keeper drops a land is some good.)

[The Dude]

dude here

@LoA- I've heard gibbons is also good first turn against keeper. it's got about as many isnants as it has lands, if not more, and are just as essential to keepers game play. as a bonus it also gets +1/+1.

dude

[LoA]

@The Dude: True enough, Gibbons might even be better vs. MonoU than vs. Keeper.  The problem isn't that they're not good cards for the matchup, but rather what I would take out to fit them in.  Vs. Keeper, I generally side out 4 BotH and put in 4 Null Rod (assuming I expect Kegs).  If it's an "old school" Keeper (that is, one that runs maindeck Moat and an extra in the sideboard), I might throw in some Naturalize as well.  I really don't want to side out all my pump since I think that weakens this deck's best attribute in the Keeper match: speed.  

Gibbons vs. Keeper is tough for them, no doubt, but the number of non-blue cards makes it possible for them to play around the threat of a 4/4.  This is the same reasoning I would use to justify siding out the Herd before Elite when I'm playing mono-colored decks running 5 Strips.  I can't force them to activate my Herd, but at the very least the Elite is a threat (albeit a small one).

[TheMadScotsman]

Gibbons are in kind of a three-way tie with boas and elephants for my favorite card in the deck.  I like playing them maindeck, but apparently I do alot of things that most don't.
Naturalize RULES!






Don't anger the gnome...

[bebe]

Just for the record here is a deck that placed third at a large tournament in Europe. This is heavily metagamed against control. In fact its a bit sick in some ways

Lars Scharnagl
"Typ I (was sonst)"
3. Platz Classic

22. 4. 2001 in Dülmen
 
    Main Deck
3  Brown Ouphe
2  Crumble
2  Elvish Lyrist
4  Elvish Spirit Guide
4  Fyndhorn Elves
4  Hidden Gibbons
3  Kavu Chameleon
4  Llanowar Elves
4  Rancor
4  River Boa
3  Scragnoth
2  Uktabi Orangutan
3  Cursed Scroll
1  Mox Emerald
4  Mishra's Factory
1  Strip Mine
2  Wasteland
10   Forest
  
Sideboard
3  Choke
2  Elvish Lyrist
3  Hidden Guerrillas
4  Spike Feeder
3  Defense Grid

[The Dude]

dude here

i'm a big fan of the german metagame, but as much as i hate to say it...that deck looks horrid. the "optimal" current build for stompy is much better at beating control than, IMHO, that could ever be.

and i just might also be falling in love with naturalize. it's pimp-a-licios

later...


dude

[TheMadScotsman]

I can't wait for naturalize to be legal...  
In the meantime i'm stuck with crumbles and tranquil domain.
Ever crumbled three Masticores in one game? Damn its fun!

Just for the record, my sideboard has evolved to:
3 crumble
4 emerald charm
3 compost
2 whirling dervish
3 null rod

As always, i kinda wave my own flag, mostly this wrecks against mono black, mono blue, and powder keg.  i like it, but i eagerly await the rotation in November.  Naturalize!!

 

[Zherbus]

This thread has been talked to death. It has no EVF value to it anymore so I'm closing it.