U/G Oath - A metagame deck

[Zherbus]

Looking over the threads of environments like Gencon, where Keeper has been hated out, I looked at all the decks that had done well. Here we have the following: Gro, R/G hate, Sligh, BBS, and Mono-black.

Looking among other reports, posts, and deck critiques where people have made decks that have done well against keeper, there is another set of decks that hasn't been represented at Gencon: the infamous decks of the artifact invasion. Here we have the following: Stacker2, TnT, BlackMask, and other various tubbies incarnations.

What do all these Keeper hate decks have in common?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Creatures.

When I had originally looked over the Gencon reports I had originally thought that my build of Nether Void would have been perfect for the metagame. Keg away weenies, bombard control with disruption, use duress to cherry pick Gro's hand and follow it with a hymn, and survive much of the non basic hate going around. Sounds simple enough, right?

Well looking further into it, the influx of fast artifact creature decks in type 1 has also been a wrecking force. While I still have played Keeper and Void to an overall winning record both online and in real life, I still felt the need for a deck that ultimately attempts to leave the 'paper-rock-scissors' mold that people are posing for Type 1.

I tried, kept coming up with Keeper with some minor tweaks. Overall I couldn't quite do it, but here's the closest thing to the desired effect.

//NAME: Sapphire Oath 2002 Revision 3.
// Green
       4 Oath of Druids
       2 Gaea's Blessing
       2 Sylvan Library
       1 Spike Weaver
       1 Spike Feeder
       1 Holistic Wisdom
       1 Regrowth
// Blue
       4 Force of Will
       4 Mana Drain
       1 Time Walk
       2 Mana Leak
       2 Misdirection
       4 Impulse
       1 Cunning Wish
       1 Fact or Fiction
       1 Morphling
       1 Ancestral Recall
       1 Merchant Scroll
// Artifact
       1 Black Lotus
       1 Mox Sapphire
       1 Mox Jet
       1 Mox Pearl
       1 Mox Ruby
       1 Mox Emerald
       1 Sol Ring
       1 Powder Keg
// Land
       4 Tropical Island
       3 Yavimaya Coast
       1 Undiscovered Paradise
       8 Island
       1 Wasteland
       1 Strip Mine
SB:  1 Woodripper
SB:  2 Emerald Charm
SB:  1 Morphling
SB:  3 Ophidian
SB:  1 Capsize
SB:  1 Spike Feeder
SB:  1 Teferi's Response
SB:  1 Misdirection
SB:  1 Stroke of Genius
SB:  3 Back to Basics

Yep, a heavily tuned and powered, good ol' U/G Oath. Oath, commonly known as the door to the poor and downtrodden. The engine feeds ghetto keeper and those "I can't quite grasp how to play Keeper well enough, so I just rely on the Oath engine to carry me away to great heights" players. However, I think that throwing away the ideals of those previously mentioned will work nicely when applied to this "new" deck.

Look at the list of decks dependant on creatures to function.

Control:
BBS - Most builds are running Ophidian to draw cards.
Enchantress - Enchantress's provide a good portion of this decks card drawing.

Aggro:
Gro, Stacker2, TnT, Mask, Suicide, Sligh, and Zoo depend on creatures to win.

Combo:
By Virtue of having the largest concentration of counterspells, second only to BBS, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

What this deck doesn't like:
Keeper, Ose, and Parfait.

Against Keeper and OSE, you have the ability to turn into a limping BBS deck after sideboarding, but before hand you have to work around the fact your Oaths are basically useless.

Against Parfait, you have no real way to hose them. You can try and play around them, but never expect this matchup to be easy.

As suicide black is a metagame deck in itself, meaning it doesn't like aggro environments. Oath is equally so, and is not the best choice for a control environment. While it will certainly hold its own, there are certainly better options, especially if you have the power to play this deck.

First, the deck needs to have the full power set to work. My reasoning is this:

Impulse, Sylvan, and Oath are all too slow without moxen. Yes, you need impulse! The original build of this ran Brainstorm in its slot and I found that it didn't dig enough. It doesn't get to what you need and doesn't truly get rid of what you don't need. Also, drawing the creatures in this deck is far from abysmal. With the moxen and 9 (plus lotus) sources of green, everything is castable.

Next, the last time this deck was truly successful, was with 4 Fact or Fictions. I believe the Cunning Wish and 2nd Sylvan aid in patching up that hole. The wish allows you to fetch a Response against a wasteland, Misdirection for an Ancestral Recall (or Hymn), a Stroke of Genius when mana flooded, as well as utility in Emerald Charm and Capsize. The second Sylvan is constantly giving you a look at 3 Extra cards versus aggro once you've got Oath in play, it gives you 4 extra cards against control right away, and combined with Spike Feeder recursion, gives you many more extra's.

The counterspells are fairly standard to start. Mana Drains, Force of Wills, Mana Leaks and Misdirection's. The Mana Drains fuel Spike tricks, Morphling, Cunning Wish, Holistic Wisdom, FoF, and numerous sideboard options. The Misdirection's attempt to also make up for lost card drawing in Ancestral, but also serve many other purposes. The funny looking pair of Mana Leaks are there for this decks lack of flexibility. Keeper can let more happen in the early turns, only to deal with it later. Blue/Green Oath cannot.

Lastly, the manabase is very Back to Basics friendly. An option I wanted to fit into the sideboard against some of this decks tougher opposition. I am, however, considering cutting another Yavimaya Coast for a forest to work a little better under B2B. The deck as is fairly resilient to non-basic hate. Once I have a green source, I generally Impulse/Sylvan the rest away.

Considerations:
Triskelion - Quite good. If I ever seem to have a problem with Goblin Welder, I might consider this.
2nd Merchant Scroll - If Ancestral is getting reshuffled into the deck, this might be decent in finding it again.
Timetwister - More of a sb card.

Sideboarding

Keeper:
-4 Oath
-1 Feeder
-1 Weaver
-1 Powder Keg
+3 Back to Basics
+3 Ophidian
+1 Morphling

You largely depend on getting an Ophidian and/or a Back to Basics in play.

Sligh:
-1 Sylvan Library
+1 Spike Feeder

The maindeck should already work well for you, while the sb offers little. Sylvan is almost dead against burn, so side it out for another feeder.

Suicide:
-1 Powder Keg
-1 Cunning Wish
+1 Teferi's Response
+1 Misdirection

Cunning Wish is no good once you've brought most everything that's good against suicide black
maindeck. Though, siding in the emerald charms is also a thought if Dystopia will make an appearance.

BlackMask:
-1 Morphling
-1 Holistic Wisdom
+1 Woodripper
+1 Misdirection

Wisdom is a late game card and will be too slow to use, and downright horrid to draw early. Morphling, as great as she is, will only be scoffed at when Oath'd up to face a 12/12. Weaver will be able to fog it, and feeder can stunt some of the damage.

Stacker2:
-1 Spike Weaver
+1 Woodripper

I am almost tempted to bring in the second weaver here, but right now I am uncertain.

TnT:
-1 Morphling
-1 Holistic Wisdom
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Impulse
+3 Back to Basics
+1 Woodripper

With its fragile mana base and reliance on artifacts, I believe this is a good matchup pre- and post-sideboard.

Gro:
-1 Spike Feeder
+1 Morphling

It's not aggressive enough to warrant the feeders, so we make Oath more aggressive and bring in Morphling. I considered taking the Cunning wish out, but I think its better suited to stay in the maindeck.

[CrazyCarl]

This looks to have a good shot vs all those anti-Keeper decks out there, and would probably have a good chance at dominating such a field.  

However, in such fields, Keeper is still there(Otherwise, why hate it?), and even with the transformational sideboard, the matchup against a good control deck like OSE or Keeper will be REALLY tough.  Their brokeness combined with Red Blasts will probably be able to win out through the counters and B2B.

I still think Keeper is viable and can do well even in a hate filled room.  Though this does seem like a nice alternative to play when you feel like spanking around aggro

[Often Lost]

Well, Saphire Oath has been dead for some time now. And while the meta-game was heavily aggro and could handle controle, I just dont think Saphire Oath could take it.

Zoo has becoming back in force, and with a crapload of artifact syle decks, T1 is quickly becoming an aggro dominate format. Why do Zoo, TnT, and to a lesser extent Sligh have an edge:
Answers
Disruption
Threats

When I say T1 is becoming an aggro format, I dont mean there are alot of good aggro decks. Im just saying that there are a few, great aggro decks. As of right now, TnT and Zoo (mostly r/g/u abd r/g) are the aggro decks to beat (Sui, Stacker and others could also be considered). The reason is that they have few weaknesses.
Zoo has:
Blurred Mongoose
Gorila Shamen
Burn
Zoo doesnt have the answers TnT has, but it is very hard to hose. B2B, Abyss, and others cant *just win* aginst Zoo.

TnT has many aswers and many threats. And while TnT doesnt have the evasion Zoo has, and is more open to hoseing. It has aswers along with the threats.
TnT has:
Goblin Welder
Mishras Workshop
Survival
Elvish Lyrest
Sex Monkeys
While you would think TnT is easy because all you need to worry about is Welder and Survival, the truth is it isnt. 5/3, 4/4, and more. And once one of these slip by your counter wall, your fucked.

Now, how would Saphire Oath do aginst these 2 deck (Im also excluding Sligh and Suicide from these examples)
Zoo would be a tough fight. You would have to get an early oath in order to win. The MVP in this match is Weaver. You could essentialy counter their burn. It would still be a tough match.

Now aginst TnT. TnT will almost always start out explosivly. And Saphire Oath just dont have enough counters to stop it all. And with so few answers g/u oath has, you gonna be fucked. Weaver could save some time, but they will just about Trisk it or you away. You would lose this match.

And that was just aginst those 2 decks. Sui and Sligh would probably tear you a new one too.

But what does these deck lose to?
(Off the top of my wierd head)
Moat
Pyroclasm
Powder Keg
Goblin Welder (?)

The reason these decks arnt easily beat isnt just the fact they are almost Un-hosable, its just they are so damn explosive and theres not much you could do about it.

While Keeper decks are not easily beat by them, they are beat because they arnt based by there meta-game, but by the ever weakining NG meta. But it would still take some major adjustment.

[Zherbus]

Quote (CrazyCarl @ Aug. 27 2002,14:57)This looks to have a good shot vs all those anti-Keeper decks out there, and would probably have a good chance at dominating such a field.  

However, in such fields, Keeper is still there(Otherwise, why hate it?), and even with the transformational sideboard, the matchup against a good control deck like OSE or Keeper will be REALLY tough.  Their brokeness combined with Red Blasts will probably be able to win out through the counters and B2B.

I still think Keeper is viable and can do well even in a hate filled room.  Though this does seem like a nice alternative to play when you feel like spanking around aggro

Well yeah! I am by no means saying keeper is dead. Its still absolutely king. However, If Im going to a high 'profile' tournament like Gencon, why not meta to beat the metagamed decks?

Zoo, is mainly attacking Keeper mana-bases and dodging abyss at the moment. I Hardly think the Oath matchup will be a hard one.

As far as TnT goes, I am proposing that a combination of Oath, Woodripper, and B2B would be able to take care of it.

[Matt The Great]

Crater Hellion would seem to be wearing the pants in any aggro matchup, far more than Triskelion. Is uncastability (outside of Lotus) really such a problem?

Hellion, if used, would replace Weaver, I think.\n\n

[BigChuck]

I'm personally a big oath fan, and the deck looks pretty solid to me. One thing I think this deck could use would be keg #2. With one, it's going to be hard to find when you really need it. If you have a second one, you have a much better chance of drawing/impulsing into it. Also:

Quote Sligh:
-1 Sylvan Library
+1 Spike Feeder

The maindeck should already work well for you, while the sb offers little. Sylvan is almost dead
against burn, so side it out for another weaver.

What do you mean here? You say your adding in a feeder, but then you say side in a weaver...

The only other thing I could see was adding in a forest. If you side in the B2B, then your only multiple use green mana is the UP. You mentioned this, and I think your asking for trouble by not playing at least 1.

[Zherbus]

Well yeah that was a typo. The feeder comes in.

As for the forest and the keg:

The forest Ive been thinking about for a while, and in testing is very suited to take over a Yavimaya Coast slot.

As for the second Keg, I'd love to do it. I have a few ideas where to sqeeze it, but...I dont know.

My listing so far is
//NAME: Sapphire Oath 2002 Revision 3.
// Green
       4 Oath of Druids
       2 Gaea's Blessing
       2 Sylvan Library
       1 Spike Weaver
       1 Spike Feeder
       1 Holistic Wisdom
       1 Regrowth
// Blue
       4 Force of Will
       4 Mana Drain
       1 Time Walk
       2 Mana Leak
       2 Misdirection
       4 Impulse
       1 Cunning Wish
       1 Fact or Fiction
       1 Morphling
       1 Ancestral Recall
       1 Merchant Scroll
// Artifact
       1 Black Lotus
       1 Mox Sapphire
       1 Mox Jet
       1 Mox Pearl
       1 Mox Ruby
       1 Mox Emerald
       1 Sol Ring
       1 Powder Keg
// Land
       4 Tropical Island
       2 Yavimaya Coast
       1 Forest
       1 Undiscovered Paradise
       8 Island
       1 Wasteland
       1 Strip Mine
SB:  1 Woodripper
SB:  2 Emerald Charm
SB:  1 Morphling
SB:  3 Ophidian
SB:  1 Capsize
SB:  1 Spike Feeder
SB:  1 Teferi's Response
SB:  1 Misdirection
SB:  1 Stroke of Genius
SB:  3 Back to Basics

[BigChuck]

What were you thinking about taking out for the keg? My thoughts are maybe a misdirection. You would still have 11  counters left, and multiple misdirections can clog ones hand against some decks. In most matches were the misdirection is useful, the keg is usually just as, if not more useful. Think about it:
Sligh:
Misdirection is pretty useful, but keg kills every single one of there permanents.
Suicide/Void:
Misdirection might be slightly better then keg. Mis-D can just stop there momentum flat, but a keg at 2 can kill any of there creatures before they get to attack.
Keeper:
Useful mostly in counter wars, except for maybe 2-3 cards. Keg can really screw with there mana base, while also stopping other useful cards as well.

Those are probably some of the tougher matchups, and the other ones shouldn't make that much of a difference. I think its more of a matter of your metagame, but what are your thoughts?

[Smmenen]

First, I like your deck.  I have maintained for some time that Oath was good and viable -- becuase I know, as a ophidian blue player, how dangerous it can be for me.  It was the motivating reason, in my mind, to play Capsize maindeck.  That way, if an Oath *does* hit, I can simply use B2B and sit on that for a while until I get my Capsize.  In fact, at all the tournaments where I know Oath will be played I stick an Extract in my SB.  I have found in many, many games against Oath that, by a certain mid-point in the game, they will either have one Blessing in hand or in the grave, and one left in the library.  Thus I extract the remaining Blessing to stop the recursion and allow my Morphlings to run hog-wild.  

At the PTQ that was just held in Columbus, we held a T1 side event as we always do.  Kevin Kron (Cha1n5) played Oath.  He hadn't really tweaked in since very early in the year and we reviewed the deck after the side event.  

The first thing we decided was to take red out.  Since red was the last major change to the deck for Red Elemental Blasts, Obliterate, and Meltdown, those would all need to be removed.  In my mind one of motivating reasons that red could be cut was because, when you look at Green, it has enough anti-control stuff.  Besides the obvious cards, I think Multani's Presence should be used against in the SB.  

As for Cunning Wish - my preliminary theory on it is that it needs to be very useful against Aggro and Control.  In keeper you Wish for STP or Misdireciton against Aggro and REB or Misdirection against control.  That makes sense.  But I'm not convinced that it is strong enough in a mono blue deck.  I will admit that Wishing for Teferi's Response can be very nifty, but it is conditional.  And wishing for Capsize is VERY mana intensive.  My instinct is to move the capsize maindeck and get rid of the Cunning Wish technology.  But I could be wrong.

It's obvious that you have indeed tested and tuned that deck.  One of the things that isn't so obvious with Oath, but only becomes apparant after some testing is that it's mana issues are not easily solved.  It has dual goals that it is trying to fulfill which are working agianst each other: it wants a first turn Oath so it needs a mox and a land.  But it also wants UU ASAP as well and in Kevin's version with four counterspell and four mana drains, it would like UUUU ASAP.  Kevin's answer to this problem, was in my view, the suboptimal solution of beginning to pare away some of the moxen.  I think I like your answer better: Add Impulse and Use two Leaks instead of counterspells.  

Your Mana looks really good.  However, one suggestion that I think would be helpful is to add one or two Treetop Villages.  Yes, they are vulnerable to Back to Basics, but they are a source of green mana, they are good against aggro AND ophidians.  Also, there are situations where you won't get an immediate Oath, and possibly not an impulse to get an oath.  But, again, I could be wrong.  At the very least, it can't hurt to try one Treetop.  
EDIT: It just occured to me that your B2B sb strategy might make this idea worthless.

I also think Stroke of Genuis should somehow fit maindeck -- especially if you decide to remove the Cunning Wish.  Stroke is really important in this deck and is actually a CRITICAL card in the mono blue matchup -- this occurs becuase both players sit for a very long while.  

Normally, I would suggest that Sol Ring is not good enough - even though it accelerates you to Fact or Fiction and Stroke, etc.  But, in your deck, you seem like you might be slightly more reliant on hard casting some of the FOW and MIS-D goodness AND your SB of Ophidians (which *are* as excellent against Keeper as you say they are)  is further evidence of its value in this particular case.  

Stephen Menendian

[Rogue]

It seems to me that you want oath against all of the mindless hating aggro decks. You also want to be able to handle the control decks post board. I will now shamelessly promote my own deck, and say that Emerald Alice could probably do, or come close too accomplishing, what it is that you set out to do. Now, if you want the Oath maindeck, an Interesting(allthough WARNING: Untested)idea would be to side in dryads and another morphling. It is a myth that you need to build a deck around dryad to abuse it. After a couple of turns it will easily be a 4/4, and that's a nice clock. I also believe that Oath is very underplayed, though it does have the disadvantage of being slow in real life(at least in my experiences). It is nice to see innovation(even if it is on an old idea), and further results would be good to hear.

[BigChuck]

Zherb, how is the hollistic wisdom working for you? I mean, in your testing, have you found it gamebreaking, or just mediocre? Personally, I've never really liked it, as every time I've tried it, it just doesn't seem to be all that gamebreaking. I mean, it will be marginally useful here and there, but I haven't had it win me the game, as usually, by the time I start using it, things are at least somewhat under control. It's probably up to your personal preference here, but unless you've found it more worth it then I,  I'm not sure if you really want it there.

Also, have you tried counterspell at all over mana leak? You run 16 sources of blue mana, so getting two shouldn't be all that much of a problem. Mana leaks don't tend to be all that useful lategame, and with two, you probably aren't consistantly drawing them early game, so maybe  you should give it a try if you haven't.

Finally, this is somewhat important to the question above also, what are are your thoughts on running more wastelands. I know you want your mana base to be B2B friendly, but how useful has only one wasteland been? If you ran more, then running the mana leaks over counterspells would be clear, but with only 2 colorless lands, then maybe the counterspells are worth it.

[Zherbus]

Thanks all, for the well thought out replies. I will answer them in order, and with as much consideration as youve all provided.

Quote As for Cunning Wish - my preliminary theory on it is that it needs to be very useful against Aggro and Control.  In keeper you Wish for STP or Misdireciton against Aggro and REB or Misdirection against control.  That makes sense.  But I'm not convinced that it is strong enough in a mono blue deck.  I will admit that Wishing for Teferi's Response can be very nifty, but it is conditional.  And wishing for Capsize is VERY mana intensive.  My instinct is to move the capsize maindeck and get rid of the Cunning Wish technology.  But I could be wrong.

I am on the fence with this. So far, however, I am loving the wish. Emerald Charms have been useful, Capsize has saved me, response has been great, and an emergency MisD has been used a few times.

Quote It's obvious that you have indeed tested and tuned that deck.  One of the things that isn't so obvious with Oath, but only becomes apparant after some testing is that it's mana issues are not easily solved.  It has dual goals that it is trying to fulfill which are working agianst each other: it wants a first turn Oath so it needs a mox and a land.  But it also wants UU ASAP as well and in Kevin's version with four counterspell and four mana drains, it would like UUUU ASAP.  Kevin's answer to this problem, was in my view, the suboptimal solution of beginning to pare away some of the moxen.  I think I like your answer better: Add Impulse and Use two Leaks instead of counterspells.  

Yes, the manabase has been absolutely solid. I originally ran brainstorms and have found them unable to dig far to find an Oath when needed. One must remember that with 4cOath you are less redundant, and include more flexible cards. With this streamlined version, you sacrifice flexibility and need to find answers fast. Against a good aggro deck, its similiar to going off like combo.

Quote Your Mana looks really good.  However, one suggestion that I think would be helpful is to add one or two Treetop Villages.  Yes, they are vulnerable to Back to Basics, but they are a source of green mana, they are good against aggro AND ophidians.  Also, there are situations where you won't get an immediate Oath, and possibly not an impulse to get an oath.  But, again, I could be wrong.  At the very least, it can't hurt to try one Treetop.  
EDIT: It just occured to me that your B2B sb strategy might make this idea worthless.

If anything, I would use mishras. Either way, I do run 4 Oaths (over the traditional 3), 2 Sylvans, normal card drawing, and 4 Impulse to be able to find Oath. So far, so good.  

Quote I also think Stroke of Genuis should somehow fit maindeck -- especially if you decide to remove the Cunning Wish.  Stroke is really important in this deck and is actually a CRITICAL card in the mono blue matchup -- this occurs becuase both players sit for a very long while.  

If I ever find the wish slot to be horrible, the Stroke WILL be taking its place. I havent had a card drawing problem yet though. Ancestral and FoF get recurred enough that a slower stroke of genius is rarely as useful as the flexible Cunning Wish.

Yes, Sol Ring is good in here. Especially for the mana intensive Wish and every sideboard option. I am often shifting spike tokens around and colorless certainly helps there.

Quote It seems to me that you want oath against all of the mindless hating aggro decks. You also want to be able to handle the control decks post board. I will now shamelessly promote my own deck, and say that Emerald Alice could probably do, or come close too accomplishing, what it is that you set out to do. Now, if you want the Oath maindeck, an Interesting(allthough WARNING: Untested)idea would be to side in dryads and another morphling. It is a myth that you need to build a deck around dryad to abuse it. After a couple of turns it will easily be a 4/4, and that's a nice clock. I also believe that Oath is very underplayed, though it does have the disadvantage of being slow in real life(at least in my experiences). It is nice to see innovation(even if it is on an old idea), and further results would be good to hear.

First, I found Emerald alice not to function as well in real life as on apprentice. The semi-transformational sideboard was indeed inspired after a weekend of playtesting. I wouldnt mind giving Dryads a whirl in Ophidians spot, but I feel there isnt enough 'cantrips' in the deck to make them as threatening as Ophidian. The idea intrigues me, and I will indeed give them a run.

As far as it being slow in real life; It can be. I usually have decent luck on playing rapidly enough to get done fairly quickly, however.

Quote Zherb, how is the hollistic wisdom working for you? I mean, in your testing, have you found it gamebreaking, or just mediocre? Personally, I've never really liked it, as every time I've tried it, it just doesn't seem to be all that gamebreaking. I mean, it will be marginally useful here and there, but I haven't had it win me the game, as usually, by the time I start using it, things are at least somewhat under control. It's probably up to your personal preference here, but unless you've found it more worth it then I,  I'm not sure if you really want it there.

Actually, I cut it for keg #2. Holistic Wisdom sucked. JP made much better usage of it in the super flexable keeper thing he made, while I hated it. It was ass in the beginning turns, and it was too slow and clunky mid game. Late game it was alright...but just that.

Quote Also, have you tried counterspell at all over mana leak? You run 16 sources of blue mana, so getting two shouldn't be all that much of a problem. Mana leaks don't tend to be all that useful lategame, and with two, you probably aren't consistantly drawing them early game, so maybe  you should give it a try if you haven't.

The leaks have been great. With all the moxen I run, they are gold in the early game and always good in a counter war. Against low mana aggro, 3 mana is quite the task.

Quote Finally, this is somewhat important to the question above also, what are are your thoughts on running more wastelands. I know you want your mana base to be B2B friendly, but how useful has only one wasteland been? If you ran more, then running the mana leaks over counterspells would be clear, but with only 2 colorless lands, then maybe the counterspells are worth it.

Well actually its 2 Wastelands (1 Strip Mine). With all the recursion I have, they come back often enough. Really adding a third might be acceptable if I was having problems with manlands or LoA, so far this hasnt been the case. On another note, Kegs waiting at Zero hold off factories all day long

Finally the current decklist:
//NAME: Sapphire Oath 2002 Revision 3.
// Green
      4 Oath of Druids
      2 Gaea's Blessing
      2 Sylvan Library
      1 Spike Weaver
      1 Spike Feeder
      1 Regrowth
// Blue
      4 Force of Will
      4 Mana Drain
      1 Time Walk
      2 Mana Leak
      2 Misdirection
      4 Impulse
      1 Cunning Wish
      1 Fact or Fiction
      1 Morphling
      1 Ancestral Recall
      1 Merchant Scroll
// Artifact
      1 Black Lotus
      1 Mox Sapphire
      1 Mox Jet
      1 Mox Pearl
      1 Mox Ruby
      1 Mox Emerald
      1 Sol Ring
      2 Powder Keg
// Land
      4 Tropical Island
      2 Yavimaya Coast
      1 Forest
      1 Undiscovered Paradise
      8 Island
      1 Wasteland
      1 Strip Mine
SB:  1 Woodripper
SB:  2 Emerald Charm
SB:  1 Morphling
SB:  3 Ophidian
SB:  1 Capsize
SB:  1 Spike Feeder
SB:  1 Teferi's Response
SB:  1 Misdirection
SB:  1 Stroke of Genius
SB:  3 Back to Basics

[FeverDog]

I know you dont like posts that dont say much Steve, but this is gonna be one of them  

I think the deck is extremely solid. With all the Tubbies decks popping up these days this is a excellent metagame deck. Juggys and SuChis may ignore Abyss, but nothing gets around Oath.

[BigChuck]

Quote nothing gets around Oath.

Well, my manlands would give you a beating.

But really, Zherbus, I would suggest adding a second forest. You have no tutor to go get it, and you don't really want to not have a consistant G source under B2B. I don't want to take out too many blue sources, But i think with 2 forests, it would allow you to function better under the B2B. It would also allow you to be able to play weavers/feeders and not having to worry about not having one of those G sources stay tapped forever.

[Zherbus]

Yes, Feverdog

BigChuck - Actually through testing, my mana base is TIGHT. It works SOOO smoothly, as a matter of fact because of the emerald, I am constantly seeing 2 green by turn 4. I dont have much tutoring, but I have an amazing search engine. Impulse dig far, and multiple sylvans ensure that each time I Oath, I consistantly impulse for 3.

Also, in the Keeper matchup, the green element all but disappears. Spikes leave, Oath leaves, blue things like b2b, phids, and another morphling join the fray. Green is hardly a worry at that point.

[Smmenen]

In my big post I suggested in the third paragraph that Multani's Presence should be used in the SB.  Now I emphasize this point with play experience to back it up.  
This is why Multani's Presence is good and I'll explain the way to get around it.  

You play key spell with Presence in play, say  Oath.  They counter, you counter, they counter, you counter, they counter.  Then you say, ok your counter resolves: draw.  then you let the other resolve and draw. Then you use one of your new counters to counter and your Oath resolves.

The way around it is if you go: Oath, and your opponent goes: Counter, Counter, Counter, Counter.  But that would be an immense waste unless your opponent knew: a) you were desprate to get that Oath in play which is conditioned on the fact that b) your opponent knows you have alot of counters.

Stephen Menendian

[BigChuck]

I've never seen the card before. It's actually not that bad. I'm going to try and fit 1-2 in my board, which, BTW, is completely different then Zherbus'. I have my top secret anti-enchantress tech there

[j_orlove]

Quote Actually through testing, my mana base is TIGHT. It works SOOO smoothly

This deck is going to love the new fetchlands. How tight can it get?  

The problem with presence is that keeper only has 8-10 counters. Sure, drawing 1-3 cards is nice, but it won't help you too much against the other 22-24 cards in the keeper deck.

[BigChuck]

That's why you play presence in the board. You side it in against BBS, and it gives you a much, much easier time if it resolves. If all of their counters read that you draw a card, then it makes them significantly worse.
Also, when he said his mana base was tight, he meant awesome.

[Zherbus]

Multani's Presence is real nice, but as you've all mention, is not needed against Keeper. If I were to expect BBS, I would trade an emerald charm for it.

How would this deck like the new fetch lands? It doesnt have allied colors. Also, the mana is working nicely for me now.

Against Keeper, so far my results have been as expected. I generally lose game 1 and move on to win a good share of sb'd games. So, as Ive though all along, its obviously not a NG metagame deck. Thats not the point of it anyways, its the point of bringing this to a large scale tournament, like Origins or Gencon, and facing BBS, R/g Zoo-things, Sligh, Workshop decks, Mask decks, Gro, etc.

Bigchuck, why would I be afraid of enchantress? It might get Choke or City of Solitude out on me? I might remind you that to get its relied on draw engine, it has to play 0/1 creatures. Admittedly I havent played an Enchantress deck with Oath, but I am certain CooberP would indulge me. I dont really see much of a point seeing how Enchantress and Oath gun after different decks/metagames.

[BigChuck]

Well, I think it would be a tough matchup. Think about  it. Enchantress lets you oath, but if you let it resolve, the enchantress player will draw a good amount of cards. It's not a spectacular trade, but if the mesa resolves, then its going to be almost impossible for you to beat them. I'm not going to say what is in my board, but it definitely solves this problem.

[j_orlove]

Quote Also, when he said his mana base was tight, he meant awesome.

I know. that's why I used the "broken" smiley.
Perhaps I should have said:

Your mana base is tight!    

But seriously, wouldn't one or two fetchlands be good? they combo with sylvan, and can get either trop/island or trop/forest.

I think the ability to have 2 "basic" forests in your deck, or one more "basic" island, that can also be a dual, is worth 1 life.
I mean, most games getting the dual will be nice, but with B2B, fetching your own basics is strong. And, of course, oath/blessing can get your fetchland back vs void, if they drop a creature. And if not, you can probably handle a deck who's only offensive threats are 0-4 factories  

[BigChuck]

As Zherbus already said, there is no U/G fetchland; It's only allied colors. I don't think it's worth it to only able to get an island, or only able to get a forest.

[cooberp]

First of all, Enchantress can draw tons of cards off Sylvan/PoK recursion.  Second, be careful about dropping Oath against an Enchantress player.  I've had a lot of fun just loading up my hand with Duresses and must counters until an Oath player drops Morphling, Oath for an Enchantress dumping 20 cards in the graveyard, and forcing through a Replenish.  Yum.

[Freddie]

Dpes anyone have some suggestions on how Naturalize and the new fetches would sdjust this decklist?

/NAME: Sapphire Oath 2002 Revision 4?
 // Green: (10)
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Sylvan Library
1 Naturalize
1 Regrowth
1 Spike Feeder

// Blue: (20)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
4 Impulse
1 Time Walk
1 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Morphling
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor

// Artifact: (3)
1 Triskellion / Crater Hellion ?
2 Powder Keg

// Land 27
4 Tropical Island
2 Yavimaya Coast
7 Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Dustbowl
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
2 Treetop Village/ Mishra's Factory?

//Sideboard: (15)
2 Naturalize
2 Tranquil Domain (Enchantress and Parfait)
1 Teferi's Response
3 Misdirection
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Spike Feeder
2 Phyrexian Furnace
3 Compost

I am taking a stab here. My metagame is filled with aggro, with a heavy compliment of it being black.

A few of the top decks regularly in the finals are enchantress, and W/G Dragon.

i like oath allot and did pretty well with it in te type 1.5 tourneament a few weeks ago, and would like to look at it as a viable type 1 deck, utilizing the new fetchlands, and naturalize.

Let me know what you think.

-Freddie

[Zherbus]

Here is my new listing for 'Sapphire Oath 2002'

Counters (12)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
Engine (6)
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
Creatures (3)
1 Spike Weaver
1 Spike Feeder
1 Morphling
Search/Draw (10)
4 Impulse
2 Sylvan Library
1 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
Utility (4)
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
2 Powder Keg
Mana (25)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
4 Tropical Island
3 Wooded Foothill
1 Forest
8 Island
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
SB: 1 Woodripper
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 1 Morphling
SB: 3 Ophidian
SB: 1 Capsize
SB: 1 Spike Feeder
SB: 1 Teferi's Response
SB: 1 Misdirection
SB: 1 Stroke of Genius
SB: 3 Back to Basics

I've cut one off colored moxen for a much needed second Wasteland. Also, I noticed you went down to 1 Sylvan. With only 1 FoF, you really need a second.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Quote A few of the top decks regularly in the finals are enchantress, and W/G Dragon.

I'm interested, what is W/G Dragon? Dragon, for me, would be WorldgorgerCombo, but how could that be W/G?

On that Fetchland debate: With only 1 or 2 Fetchlands could either get a basic Island/Forest (depends on the Fetchland) or a Tropical, giving you a low-pain 2 color land. I think that might be viable, especially when going to 2 Sylvans.
/edit: I see Zherbus already added them, oh well.

[Os-Vegeta]

Quote SB: 1 Woodripper
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 1 Morphling
SB: 3 Ophidian
SB: 1 Capsize
SB: 1 Spike Feeder
SB: 1 Teferi's Response
SB: 1 Misdirection
SB: 1 Stroke of Genius
SB: 3 Back to Basics

Zherbus: How well does boarding in an extra Spike Feeder do against Sligh post-board?  I would think that a 3rd keg would work better post-board, but I could be wrong.  Have you tried out a third keg post-board instead of a third feeder?

[mezzir]

lol....w/g isn't white/green
its world/gorger
i prefer just dragon or gorger for shorthand

[kirdape3]

Having played against CHAIN5 a bunch of times during GP: Cleveland, I'm wondering how you deal with fast aggro that presents enchantment hate.  I was going somewhere close to even against a similar list with my R/G/w Gun with 4 Wax/Wane maindeck, and Oath should be a practical auto-loss for me.