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Author Topic: MonoU Trix Mini-Primer  (Read 6852 times)
MolotDET
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« on: September 27, 2002, 06:35:54 pm »

MonoU Trix Mini Primer: by MolotDET

     Let me start by telling you why I got into playing monoU trix.  My meta-game boasts a lot of Sligh, Keeper, U/r Phiddian and Combo, as well as a smattering of just about every other archetype, plus some random rogue decks.  I am a Keeper player by nature.  And so, have been having problems dealing with all the hate that has been deservedly coming my way.  Also the meta-game has been seeing a lot of combo lately.  And so, sideboards have been changed to reflect that.  As most cards that are brought in to hate combo are just as good at hating Keeper, I found myself in a dilemma.  How do you win in a field where you have been hated out?  I know some of the Keeper players at Gencon were asking themselves the same question this summer.  The answer is not that Keeper is dead, but that it needs to evolve.  So as I am evolving my Keeper, I want a new deck to play.  

     By nature, I always have a few decks that I am toying with, using new cards and mechanics and such.  Since almost a year ago I have been toying with bringing the 1.5 monoU Trix deck into type 1.  The choice to play mono blue rather than the more established four or five color variants was made because those multi color Trix decks give up control of the game for a third or fourth turn kill with one counter backup.  While this would be good verses a field of aggro, it would not be optimal against combo, Keeper, monoB, artifact decks and monoU.

     The main problem with the 1.5 deck is that it was not fast enough to become a force in T1.  Adding a set of moxen and a lotus was of course the first step.  Now the deck accelerates but getting the combo pieces faster is necessary.  Enter some more restricted goodness in the form of card drawers.  Getting Illusions out and keeping it there to combo needed to be worked out, so more counterspells are added.  Board control of a sort has to be maintained to even be able to think about winning.  So powder kegs and Capsize are maintained from the 1.5 deck.  Sapphire charms are removed now that they are no longer needed to produce acceleration.  

     This leaves me with a 75+ card deck.  That is not exactly streamlined enough to be any type of a force in T1.  After months of kicking this thing around I think I finally hit it in just about the right spot.

                              DETrix
Combo
 3 Illusions of Grandeur
 3 Donate
Draw/Search
 2 Intuition
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Timewalk
 2 Deep Analysis
 1 Timetwister
 1 Cunning Wish
 1 Mystical Tutor
 2 Merchant Scroll
 4 Accumulated Knowledge
 1 Gush
Utility
 2 Powder Keg
Counters
 2 Mana Leak
 4 Force of Will
 4 Mana Drain
 2 Misdirection
Mana
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Black Lotus
 5 solo moxen
 1 Library of Alexandria
 1 Tolarian Academy
 1 Stripmine
14 Island

  SB:
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Cursed Totem
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Back to Basics
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Divert
1 Psionic Blast
1 Capsize

   The best thing about this deck is that it has maindeck tech against just about every archetype.  Also, while it strives to combo, it does not forget about the game that is being played in the here and now.  Being more of a combo control deck, DETrix cannot out race other combos, but it can keep them from going off first with its superior number of counterspells.


The Cards:
     The strength of monoU is counter ability and card drawing.  Most Blue decks will accomplish this using Ophidians to draw lots of extra cards and running an overwhelming number of counters in the deck.  Had I ran Phids in this deck I would be playing Forbiddian and not Trix so I opted for different cards.
    
     Intuition/Accumulated Knowledge:  I went with this over Impulse because I wanted to have the cards in hand rather than on the bottom of my library and because I could get the missing combo piece in hand at instant speed, rather than whatever the four cards of my topdeck offered.  AK is also tech against mono Black which is one of your bad match-ups.  So, I figured that strengthening the maindeck, to give a viable game one win, was best.

     Timetwister:  with no graveyard recursion available, outside of artifacts, like Feldon’s Cane, or Recall.  I needed a way to get Combo pieces back.  I believe it to be better than these because it will fill your hand as well.  I do not often like filling my opponents hand, but since most aggro are not really a problem anyway, this should be worth its downside.

     Mystical Tutor:  The topdeck tutor.  Aside from grabbing Ancestral or one of the big AKs, Mystical acts, sort of, like a fourth Donate.  Since it can fetch nearly every spell in the deck, I felt it was a must have.

     Merchant Scroll:  Originally I ran the deck with just one Scroll.  The second’s spot was taken up by the Stroke.  I found the Stroke to be too mana intensive and either: sat in hand waiting to be cast and ended up being pitched, or was cast for a maximum of 2 or 3 cards.  The second Merchant scroll can get Ancestral faster and/or the big AK.  

     Cunning Wish:  After much deliberation, and a little help from Cividel, I decided to use wish tech in my side board.  Because cards like: Fact or Fiction and Stroke of Genius were not good in the main deck, didn’t mean they were bad cards.  After moving a few cards in from the side I was left with a 5 card hole in it.  Knowing what I needed was going to be all instants, the wish made sense.

     Powder Keg:  I was going for a slower game and knew I was playing more of a control deck.  With blues inability to do anything to permanents other than return them to hand, I knew I was going to have to use a lot of the same cards as other monoU decks.  Keg is one of the best cards out there, as far as dealing with many of the things that cause problems for Trix.

     Deep Analysis:  I know I’m going to take heat for this one but, these were in the sideboard, as tech against mono black.  I was going to fill these two spots with Wastelands but since my worst matches are among mono colored decks and that was what I was trying to strengthen against, there was no need for them.  So, as I was making my sideboard more wish friendly I took these two out.  When I made it back to the maindeck and found the two empty spots and puzzled over what to put in, I found them sitting there.  What it needed against monoU was more reliable card drawing and more counters in hand.  Though game one was not an auto-loss against blue it was vs. black.  The two DAs are great against black since you cast them from the grave more often anyway.  They also had the funny ability, combined with the wish and the second Merchant Scroll, of giving me counters in had more often.  Thus this strengthened my Trix against both decks. While I could have put other spells in their spot, nothing would have done the job of strengthening and drawing cards, as well(meaning in addition to and as good as).  The fact that they are cheeply cast from the grave at 1U and 3 life is a red herring against Blue because you can get them to fight a counterwar over it and then cast the combo unimpeaded, whether I get the cards or not.

     Gush:  In many cases D.E.Trix runs through its card drawing fairly quickly, leaving you with 20 or so cards in the deck.  On occasion, It also experiences bad mana flooding and many times, after Timetwister, it ends up being down a few drawing spells (namely the Deep Anals).  To try to remedy this, I have removed 1 Island for a Gush and another for a Sol ring.  Thus far in testing this has worked out, but it remains to be seen how well.

     Mana Leak/Force of Will/Mana Drain/Misdirection:  The obligatory counterspells.  Of course Force and Drain were must haves and if you are going to run more counters than that, MisD is always quick to follow.  I wanted more than just that though.  I found Mana Leak fits this deck well.  I usually don’t like it but with the addition of the moxen, I found myself with one U and one off color mana on a lot of first turns.  The vanilla Counterspells that I was using at the time were most infuriating, because with only one blue mana they were more often pitched to something else than cast.  Trying every other counter that made sense first was a daunting task.  Leak is a great early game spell and is a slap in the face, when it is the second or third counter you cast in a war.

     Moxen/Lotus/Sol Ring:  Without needing to be said these are the best mana accelerators in the game.  The early or late game explosiveness is absolutely a must in this deck.  Without heavy dependence on colored mana, monoU Trix can use a full set of Moxen rather than just the on color sapphire.  Sol Ring is another story.  It was hard to take out after I added it.  Most control based decks run Sol and this deck loves the boost it provides.  

With the mana base set at 25 sources I was running Sol as the 61st card.  The inconsistency of 61 cards drove me crazy until I dropped an off color Mox for it.  Eventually I realized that a 0cc that produces 1 mana is better than a 1cc that produces 2, the Mox had better synergy with Mana Leak and I could not replace Island #16 with the Sol.  So, Sol Ring was not included, but has since replaced an Island, to cut down on late game land draws.

     Library of Alexandria:  LoA was a hard choice.  As one of three non-basic lands in the deck, LoA is going to be wasted with regularity.  The card boost it can give is well worth it, even if it is only one or two.  With all the drawing this deck does, LoA is in complement to it.  After much testing I found that it was still great, though it did seem to give the deck a weakness.  In some instances you would rather have drawn an Island, but this is only when the game is so far gone that only the perfect topdeck would help you win.

     Tolarian Academy:  Again the weakness of giving targets to wastelands is balanced by the mana boost that this land provides.  Dropped at the right time, Academy provides you with enough mana to combo and hard cast a counter.  Also it is tech against combo decks that rely upon the Academy.

     Stripmine:  I ran this deck with no mana disruption before and got eaten alive by decks using LoA, Bazaar, Port, Dust Bowl, Wastes/Strip, and Academy.  Perhaps this is not enough disruption but I can’t seem to find anything to cut for wastes.

     Fact or Fiction/Stroke of Genius:  They got moved to the side because I found I was unable to cast them early in the game and by the time I reached the mid-game they were, most of the time, no longer useful.  Still I wanted to have them available, because other than the CCs being nice to dump drain mana into, they are damn good spells.  So, when the side board slots opened up and I was adding wish tech, they were the first spells I though of.

     Cursed Totem:  I have always told people, “if you have room in your sideboard, Totem works really well at shutting down Morphlings and Phids.”  Well when testing this deck I found that monoU was among my worst match-ups.  Since I didn’t have the availability to the colors that have cards to deal with these creatures, I thought I would take a little of my own advice.  Totem also helps against a wide range of creatures like: Mox monkey, welder, dwarven miner, feeder, and almost the whole horde of Artifact creatures.  I think Totem has not caught on widely because it takes a lot of room in the side.  Of course in a deck where your options are limited and your bad match-ups are also limited, you have to make the room.

     Ensnaring Bridge:  The deck and side were set, than I ran into my first monoB deck, since the revision.  I somehow won game one, and sat there for a few moments and realized that nothing in the side was of real help in this match.  Knowing that Negators would be coming in to replace the shades, Totems were worthless.  The advent of Divert and Vision Charm helped a little, but these were not optimal against Black.  Needless to say games 2 and 3 were losses.  I looked back at my Keeper and found the bridge in the side.  So this replaces one of the Totems.  While with only one in the deck and no way to search for it, Bridge was not a powerhouse.  After adding the second to the sideboard it afforded a little extra sanity.  At least I know, black wont be countering it.  

     Back to Basics:  I actually take flack for not running these main.  The problems are: that there is really no room for BtB main and they are dead vs. most decks.  I hate having wasted cards in the main-deck and since they were not good against any of the problem matches, they were bound for the sideboard.  Note that if I were going to NGNY to play I would most assuredly have these main.  The other thing is that multicolored decks are less problematic match-ups, so having that much maindeck hate against them is overkill.  These are better to lock up game two and/or three.

Blue Elemental Blast:  Since Red Elemental Blast is in the sideboard or every deck that can support them and most Sligh run 8 in their side, it became necessary to be able to counteract that.  What started as 6 BEB became 4, because I found that the counter base I had was already almost adequate.  This number dropped to 3 when I found that Divert acted almost like a BEB against Sligh and was better to have in the side against U/r Phiddian and Forbiddian. So the number ended up droping to 2.

     Divert:  This card cost me a few games against a Phid deck that was running them.  I figured whatever works for them can work for Trix as well.  Divert became an awesome side-board card to have with the wish tech, and against Sligh as well.  Eventually the second one replaced the fourth BEB.

     Psionic Blast:  Blast was considered but it almost never won games.  Against decks that can gain life, 4 damage is nearly never enough and multiple blasts are not even an option.  But, against decks that pay life for things like drawing cards and such, Psiblast becomes a potent weapon.  Eventually I ended dropping the third BEB for this.

     Capsize:  The instant speed kill it provides is absolutely necessary against some decks.  Also there are some problem permanents that sometimes just need to go.  Originally I considered Capsize cost prohibitive.  It was removed from the main deck and ended up being removed from the side before I worked in the wish.  Hoodwink took it’s place in the side at this point.  Wink was only good as an instant kill, it didn’t give the flexibility to rid me of every problem that arose.  Though I still hate the cc Capz is needed, and I found that by the time I can wish for it, I can cast it with buyback.

Cut Cards:
     So as I said above I had something like a 75 card deck and it had to be cut down.  Most of the choices were easy to make.  While some cards seemed like they belonged, until they no longer fit the mold.
 
     Hoodwink:  I needed a replacement for Capsize.  The instant speed kill it provided was absolutely necessary against some decks.  Also there are some problem permanents that sometimes just need to go.  Capsize was cost prohibitive.  Hoodwink worked just as well to that end. So it got the Capz place.  At least that is what I thought.  The problem became that I did need the ability to return creatures as well.  I forgot about Grow.  While I did do a lot of testing against grow, that took place during the beginning of the testing.  Since then I found that I really didn’t need a bounce spell, but felt I should have one in case some of those trouble enchantments got out, but I forgot about the need to bounce Dryads when they got too big.

    Frantic Search/Time Spiral/Windfall:  These draw7’s and Frantic were among the first cards to go.  While they allow for stunning come form behinds and can fill your hand quite nicely, the chance element is not something a combo/control deck likes.  Timetwister is considered a necessary evil, because of it’s low cc and recursion ability.  None of these cards made that cut.

     Recall:  This card enjoyed its place in the fifteenth sideboard slot until it was removed when the wish tech was moved in.  Perhaps this was a mistake, but that has not been exhibited thus far.

     Brainstorm/Impulse: These cards were removed for the more powerful restricted drawing spells, and because I was more pleased by the Intuition/AK engine.  When I was moving FoF and Stroke to the side I toyed with bringing them back, but as I ended up with only three spots I figured that Impulse would not make me stronger against my problem match-ups and I hate Brainstorm.

     Sapphire Medallions:  These were removed for the new matrix of moxen.  They never made it back into the deck (even though they were suggested by quite a few people).  Personally I think they are too slow for a serious T1 deck.

     Brain Geyser:  Though this is awesome card drawing, it couldn’t find a home here.  It was maindeck originally, but was removed in favor of another Mana Leak and I have never regretted its parting.

     Teferi’s Response:  I had one copy in the deck.  After removing Geyser I really didn’t want to remove another potential drawing spell.  After keeping some notes of how often Response was useful, I realized that the logistics of having it, and a land to protect with it, were not very good at all.  It almost made the wish tech sideboard, but lost that place to Divert.

     Mana Crypt/Mana Vault/Grim Monolith (Power Artifact):  As far as Vault and Crypt go, I felt that the loss of life, while easily affordable, was not a good idea.  I toyed with the idea of the Monolith/Power combo for a while, but found that the deck had no room for it.

     Washout:  I toyed with this in the side for a while.  They are quite good for mass removal against aggro, but they were not as good against monoU as Totem, nor as good as Bridge against black.

     Disk:  Disks are nice.  A strong case for them can be made when speaking of Artifact decks, Void (or any monoB), Aggro, or even monoU.  They lend enchantment removal, which monoU Trix is sorely lacking, but at the cost of speed.  I believe their cc and the turn wait make them prohibitive but they may be worth the shot.

     Mirari/Tinker:  This combo had it’s merits when I play tested it.  I came up with some interesting combinations and it did make the deck stronger to a certain extent.  Problem was that it made the deck weaker against the decks it was having problems with.

     Necropotance/Yawgamoth’s Bargain/Yawgamoth’s Will/Duress/Demonic Tutor/Enlightened Tutor/REB/Abeyance:  This covers the gamut of multicolored Trix decks and those with transformational sideboards.  IMO going mono-colored shores up many of the weaknesses of these other decks.  Screwing you mana base for a possible turn or two, faster kill is not even an option.  The problem with 4 or 5 color Trix in T1 is that it is too easily disrupted, and with nearly every archetype running some kind of disruption and the mono-colored decks running lots of it, multi-color versions are going to be taking extra hits.  While I won't scream B2B as a good reason to stay mono-colored, might I shout: Blood Moon, Wasteland, Dwarven Miner, Mox monkey, Null Rod or Powder Keg.  All common cards, all can fuck the multi-colored mana Base.  Any decks that pack Keeper hate maindeck and/or sideboard will have plenty of things to make you scream "B2B!"  Also on this note I get to run B2B, so those things that fold to nonbasic hate, do just that.  Multi-color Trix decks usually run something like 28 mana producers, so you are drawing more (as in quantity) useful cards in the mono version.
     Multi-variants own most aggro but any version of Trix will do very well against aggro.  Trix's problems crop up while playing against: Keeper, any mono black, mono blue, Artifacts, and other combo decks.  So what you are trying to do with monoU, is shore up are the control and monoB matches, to which the multi-colored versions will bow.  Also when pitted against another combo deck, with multi-color it is basically "whoever goes off first."  By going MonoU and being a more combo/control deck, you eliminate their ability to "go off" before you let them.
     With multi-colored Trix, you end up running 2 or 3 extra colors to support a very few cards of any of those colors.  While Necro and Bargain have great drawing power, they are mana intensive, which means you should run Dark Rituals to support them.  MonoU stabilizes you against your problem match ups, and your deck is filled with useful cards, rather than an enormous combo engine.
    The worst part about multi colored Trix is that basically, you are running an Academy Decklist with a different kill condition.  While you are changing your kill, you are not strengthing the deck against the problem match-ups.  Also all the draw7 effects leave too much to chance.  Filling your opponents hand is not good unless it is absolutely neccesary.  While Memory Jar is a great card, it comes with a hefty price tag and you run Tinker to back it up.
       The best things about using black in the deck are Duress, Yawgwill and YawgBargain.  MisDs and Mana Drains work just as well as Duress and in most cases have the side effects of speeding up your mana and, god willing, your drawing.
     Yawg Bargain is a great card, and in this deck could be concidered an autowin, if you can get it into play.  As I said the problem is, that it forces you to run Dark rituals and all those excess Tutors and Mana producers to insure that you can cast it, let alone force it into play and protect it.  And it makes the Mana Leaks in my deck look even better.
     Yawgwill is another great card, and if you can cast it you should be able to win.  But, if you could cast yawgwill you could have just as easily cast any other spell.  With monoU Trix the cards are in your hand and not in your graveyard, where Toramonds crypt is the game.  Also splashing Black just for this card is covered under, "why you don't screw your mana base."
     RedEblasts main is just so bad, because they are useless against anything but Blue.  Now while that is a bad match-up, it makes it worse when you play black.  While REB is good against BtB, it is not against Blood Moon, and staying mono-colored makes these points moot.  Also since D.E.Trix has a bigger counterbase that multi-colored decks it doesn't need to run semi-usefull cards.
       Abeyance is the one card I wish I could still run.  But in looking at that, if you could cast this you could win already and since I have removed the randomness of the draw7s, I no longer need it.  Also, splashing a fourth color for another tutor, Abeyance and whatever you can put in you sideboard seems ludicrous.  Of course the best point is that, If I wanted to have these problems I would be playing Keeper and would be better prepared for them, at that.
     I toyed with a transformational sideboard, but being monoU the best deck to transform into was Forbiddian.  But I found that the decks that this would work well against were the decks I should beat anyway.  Though this would make it stronger after SB against monoU in particular it made it weaker against monoB, which is the worse of the two match-ups.
     Basically, Consistancy makes the mono version better.

Match-ups:
      Against Sligh:  The Trix combo itself is tech against sligh.  While sligh is striving to deal out the twentieth point of damage by turn 4 or 5, you just stay alive until you can drop Illusions and gain 20 life.  Your mana base is fairly safe in this match-up only LoA and the Academy are truly susceptible to disruption.  Countering Mox monkeys becomes a little annoying but that is the price you have to pay.  In any event, game one should be yours.
     Funny thing is that Sligh sides out burn spells to bring in all those blasts.  So, that slows it's kill down and gives me more time to work..  Side-boarding against Sligh is just a matter of bringing in your BEBs/Diverts and being a little more careful what you waste your counters on.

     Against Artifact Aggro (Stacker, Tools and Tubbies, Funker and Mask):  I haven’t tested much against any of these decks.  I would take what is set up in the “Breaking Down the Artifact Invasion” thread, and count this as monoU.  On the other hand I give Trix a slightly better match-up against these decks because it can gain lots of life.  The only one of these decks I have tested against, more than a few games, is Stacker and I have done fairly well against it.  In theory I think the worst mach-ups among these would be Tubbies.  Though with the limited amount of testing I did against it has not pointed to the fact that it could be considered a bad match-up.

     Against Random Aggro (Stompy, WW):  Out racing these desks is a little easier than Sligh, since they do not attack on two fronts (i.e. with creatures and direct damage).  Since Stompy, in particular, puts out fatties, it tends to make you careful about how you spend your counters.  Also WW tends to run quite a few disenchant effects, so once again you have to be careful with reguards to what spells you counter.  These decks have little more to offer after side-board except that WW may be packing more disenchant effects.  The only things I have brought in from the side against these decks are the Cursed Totems and these are only situational, as they might not be more useful than Kegs, depending on the creatures being played.

     Against Keeper:  Established dogma is that, if you can out counter Keeper, out draw Keeper, make some of its cards worthless, and screw it’s mana base, than you have already won.  While I do not agree with this totally, it does seem to make a certain amount of sense.  By making 3 of its cards worthless (The Abyss, Chainers Edict, StP) and another 2 of only limited use (Fire/Ice, Balance) you gain a foot up, because not only are these cards no good against you but 4 of them are not pitchible.  Also more than two wastelands are not useful against you.  So add to that list 2 or 3 more useless cards.  Zorb makes this a little tricky for you, but I noted the ability to combo more than once in a game usually wins out against Keeper.  As with Sligh, counter the Mox monkey in the early game.
     After side-board Keeper is going to be packing quite a few redEblasts at no cost to it, because it just removed all those useless cards I mentioned before.  But, you are going to be packing the 3 Back to Basics and blueEblasts from yours.  Early BtB is pretty much the win, but I you fail to combo with in a few turns of it, don’t be surprised if you lose.  Once Keeper gets out from under the BtB it will be packing all the cards it needs to win in only a few turns.

     Against Combo: Trix is possibly the slowest combo deck you will ever play.  The difference between trix and other combos is that you have absolutely no shot at going off turn 1, even turn 2 would be a stretch (though possible with the right cards), and seven mana, three specific cards in hand and another blue card in hand, by turn three is a logistical nightmare.  When you are playing monoU trix you are giving up the raw speed of combo to gain board control, and I'm not talking about just the first two turns.  DETrix allows board control throughout the match.
     So, when you are pitted against another combo deck you must proceed with caution.  Know exactly what to counter and the game is in hand.  

     Against MonoU:  The only worse match-up you have is against monoB.  MonoUs strengths against you are that it draws as many cards and it out counters you.  Kegs are not a good defense against MonoUs creatures, especially once they are already out.  I am speaking specifically about Forbiddian, U/r Phiddian for some reason is not as problematic nor are bad monoU builds.  The good news is that Forbiddian is often running 3 wasted BtB in it’s maindeck, while your kegs are only situation ally wasted.  Playing against monoU takes the most concentration out of all your match-ups.  Knowing what and when to counter is learned only after much testing.  The Cursed Totems are in the side for this match-up, and actually make it easier to deal with after sideboard.

     Against mono Black (Suicide, Nether Void, and Pox):  These are some of your worst match-ups.  While AK/Intuition is tech against discard, it doesn’t lend enough to the mix.  The maindeck needed more strength against monoB.  While I had Deep Analysis in the side, and was building the wish-tech sideboard, I moved them to the maindeck and have never regretted it.  So out of these three, Void, is actually the worst as it deprives you of cards and mana, and then makes you pay more per spell.  Countering anything that produces 3 mana on first turn is tech against any monoB deck, unless you have nothing in hand to protect.  Out racing any of these decks, as with any control or combo strategy is usually just the luck of the draw.
     Post side-board, you can expect the Negators and probably null rods, if they weren’t in the main, while you are bringing in the 2 Ensnaring Bridge, 2 Divert and the Psionic Blast.  This is still a top deck war, and whoever’s is better will win but you are stronger against monoB than any other monoU deck.
     Against Grow:- As ironic as this may sound, since Grow was built to beat Trix in 1.x, Gro is not a match-up that you should fear in the least.  Game 1 should be a victory for you because kegs in the mani deck are a pretty good defense against Grow, and because you Wish for your sideboard Capsize.  Chapin Grow is the hardest match-up of all the vairents, because it keeps trying to be Grow rather than transforming into something else.  
     Capsize comes into the maindeck, games 2 and 3 vs Gro.  Truth to tell, in all the matches I have tested against different Gro vairents (30 or so matches), I lost very few.
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MolotDET
Guest
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2002, 05:19:29 pm »

I was hoping to get some people to discuss this but out of 139 people that have looked at it no one has replied.

     There were threads about monoU trix before.  Yetr no one seems to want to reply to this, not even to tell me I am full of shit.

boy... I feel like a ...  
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riffraffxl
Guest
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2002, 05:53:55 pm »

We're all just busy reading it Smile

I'll try and comment on it if I can contribute anything useful when I'm done, but I've only played against Trix once, in an extended sanctioned event.

I played gro, and in both games got out a 2nd turn Winter Orb and won, so my insights are limited.
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GreatAngle21
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2002, 06:28:27 pm »

Why not just play BBS?

Sry to say such a thing in a primier.

But pretty much your deck is BBS with a different kill condition.

And Illusions suck when the sb hate of REB or Pyroblast is combined.  Since you have a high chance of losing 40 life because of your kill condition.
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Abra_Volta
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2002, 09:35:09 pm »

I think the main reason no one replied is because I don't think that many actually play T1 Illusions-Donate and so they don't want to look like idiots.

As for me, I know nothing about the deck, never even seen it played actually.

I might have to build me one, hehe.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2002, 04:50:11 am »

Quote from: GreatAngle21+Oct. 02 2002,19:28
Quote (GreatAngle21 @ Oct. 02 2002,19:28)Why not just play BBS?

Sry to say such a thing in a primier.

But pretty much your deck is BBS with a different kill condition.

And Illusions suck when the sb hate of REB or Pyroblast is combined.  Since you have a high chance of losing 40 life because of your kill condition.
Because BBS isnt as good against aggro as combo.
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bebe
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2002, 09:31:20 am »

Why mono-U in type 1? The deck seems to better played as a multi-color (and don't scream B2B). This is probably not an optimum deck list but it does have some staying power and options that the mono-u version lacks. Especially some black cards that are pretty much auto-win. It also opens the sideboard up for better options... Maybe the advantages and disadvantages of adding colors could be expalined?

Otherwise the primer looks good.


1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Ancestral Recall
3 Brainstorm
2 Donate
4 Force of Will
3 Illusions of Grandeur
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall

1 Crop Rotation

1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Abeyance
1 Balance

Lands/mana:
1 Badlands
3 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Underground Sea
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Dark Ritual
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leviat
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2002, 09:44:22 am »

I'm curious as to how you think your match up would be against Grow?

 

Your deck looks a little different from when I played against it a few weeks back.
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MolotDET
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2002, 07:13:51 pm »

@Zherbus - thanks for answering the obvious question, you saved me a step.

@bebe - the reasons for staying monoU are rolled up in the cut cards section and are littered throughout the primer.  The biggest thing is that you don't get screwed in your mana base.  In the deck you listed there are some 28 mana producers, so you are drawing more (as in quantity) useful cards in the mono version.  As for B2B, while I won't scream it, might I shout: Blood Moon, Wasteland, Dwarven Miner, Mox monkey, Null Rod or Powder Keg.  All common cards, all can fuck the multi-colored mana Base.  Any decks that pack Keeper hate maindeck and/or sideboard will have plenty of things to make you scream "B2B!"  Also on this note I get to run B2B, so those things that fold to nonbasic hate, do just that.
      MonoU Trix keeps it's casting costs lower.  So it worries less about things like Mana Drain and doesn't have so many of it's slots taken up by the enormous combo engine.  Nor, does it demand the afor-mentioned 28 to 30 mana producers that the multi-colored version needs to sport.  So the deck is filled with useful cards, and because it runs a higher counterbase it isn't forced to run a REB, DRits, Crop Rotation or Tinker.
     The worst part about multi colored Trix is that basically, you are running an Academy Decklist with a different kill condition.  While you are changing your kill, you are not strengthing the deck against the problem match-ups.  Also all the draw7 effects leave too much to chance.  Filling your opponents hand is not good unless it is absolutely neccesary.  While Memory Jar is a great card, it comes with a hefty price tag and you run Tinker to back it up.
     Any version of Trix will do very well against aggro, what you are trying to shore up are the control and monoB matches, to which the multi colored versions will bow.  Also when pitted against another combo deck, with multi color it is basically "whoever goes off first."  By going MonoU and being a more combo/control deck, you eliminate their ability to "go off" before you let them.
     This is not to say that the multi colored versions do not have access to some realy nice cards.:
 Yawg Bargain is a great card, and in this deck could be concidered an autowin, if you can get it into play.  Problem is that it forces you to run Dark rituals and all those excess Tutors and Mana producers to insure that you can cast it, let alone force it into play and protect it.  And it makes the Mana Leaks in my deck look even better.
  Yawgwill is another great card, and if you can cast it you should be able to win.  But, if you could cast yawgwill you could have just as easily cast any other spell.  With monoU Trix the cards are in your hand and not in your graveyard, where Toramonds crypt is the game.
  Abeyance is the one card I wish I could still run.  But in looking at that, if you could cast this you could win already and since I have removed the randomness of the draw7s, I no longer need it.

     Basically, Consistancy makes the mono version better.

@leviat - actually Gro is not a match-up that I fear in the least.  As shown in game one of our match it should pretty much own it.  And had you gotten anything out that game I might have known you were playing Gro and not sided out cards I needed agianst it.  As for game three, with two first turn Dryads it is clear that I didn't have a very good hand at the time.

     The only changes in the posted deck and the one you played against are:

1 MD Island becomes Gush.
1 SB Hoodwink becomes Capsize.

Capsize comes into the maindeck, games 2 and 3 vs Gro.  I had done my testing against Gro very early and had forgotten this by the time I was ready to play the deck.  So it was changed for Hoodwink.

truth to tell, in all the matches I have tested against different Gro vairents (30 or so matches), I lost very few.

 
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leviat
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2002, 07:53:49 pm »

Quote
Quote @leviat - actually Gro is not a match-up that I fear in the least.  As shown in game one of our match it should pretty much own it.  And had you gotten anything out that game I might have known you were playing Gro and not sided out cards I needed agianst it.  As for game three, with two first turn Dryads it is clear that I didn't have a very good hand at the time.

Actually, I was really scared when I played you and as the first match showed, my fears were true. Mono-U is a very tough match-up against Grow.

But, the first thing I realised is that you don't play the creature hate that Mono-U usually does (because the life gain of the Illusions gives you a buffer). The second thing I realised is that you use Intuition to get your AKs. (Actually, I realised you were playing AK's, then I realised you Intuition for them).

Knowing both those things made me relax, and therefore, play a better game. Granted, I had an advantage second game because you didn't know what I was playing. (And for those reading, I would like to point out that MolotDET actually had written down what I was playing in his notes from when he was going around earlier and collecting information from people. But, being a good competitor, he didn't look into his notes to give himself an edge.)

All turned out well though because he made the T8 anyways. (Only to be go against kl0wn again, hehe).

Anyways, to get back on thread, I would consider your Trix to be a very hard game for my Grow, and I think the changes you made were good! I'm not too sure about the Deep Analysis though... but if it works, it works : ).
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bebe
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2002, 08:19:43 pm »

Thank you. I read the primer but just wanted a lttle more detailed explanation of your reasoning. Now that you have explained it I'm not sure I agree entirely with your explanation. I think that the multi-version has a fair number of control elements and can find the combo more reliably on the whole. Yes, mana becomes an issue. So we go back to the old Nether Void argument - why splash green and open up your mana base to problems.

Again, I do like your version and the primer is well written. I've only toyed with the multi version and never really found it superior to a number of other combo decks.

As an aside a player here in Toronto played an Oath deck that transformed into an almost mono-blue Trix after sideboarding. The reasoning was the improved match up against other control decks and mono blue decks in particular. It beat my landkill deck games two and three and was rather unique.  

All that being said it is an enjoyable read.
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Matt The Great
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2002, 08:20:15 pm »

That's pretty ironic, considering Gro was originally made to kill 1.x's Trix.
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MolotDET
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2002, 10:05:46 pm »

@leviat - As explained in the primer, Deep Analysis was sideboard tech against monoB.  And, were moved into the deck as they were getting cut from the side.  The whole point was to strengthen the deck against monoU and B.  While I could have put other spells in their spot, nothing would have done the job of strengthening and drawing cards, as well(meaning in addition to and as good as).  The fact that they are cheeply cast from the grave at 1U and 3 life is a red herring.
     I don't acctually Intuition for AKs all that often, to tell you the truth, they are more often useful to get the missing combo piece on your EOT.  But that game I was drawing nothing...

 @bebe - I too toyed with a transformational sideboard but being monoU the best deck to transform into was Forbiddian.  But I found that the decks that this would work well against were the decks I should beat anyway.  Though this would make it stronger after SB against monoU in particular it made it weaker against monoB, which is the worse of the two match-ups.  Besides, (and I know that this is going to sound strange as I am playing Trix)  I hate Forbiddian, it takes on imagination to play and it's kinda a cheap win.

 @Angle - funny thing is that Sligh sides out burn spells to bring in all those blasts.  So, that slows it's kill down and gives me more time to work.  Also I bring in U blasts and Diverts to counteract that.

 @Matt - Thats what I was thinking a few months ago, myself.

                                          Ironic...
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j_orlove
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2002, 11:10:07 pm »

Quote
Quote  The fact that they are cheeply cast from the grave at 1U and 3 life is a red herring.

Uh...that's probably not the metaphor you were looking for  

Maybe "is icing on the cake" would be more appropriate.

As it is now, someone might think "the flashback looks like the reason you play the card, but isn't"  A red herring is a clue that seems important, but is actually irrelevant--and the flashback is certainly not irrelevant!  
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MolotDET
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2002, 01:01:23 am »

A "Red Herring" whether relevant or irrelevant is ment to distract your attention from what is truely important at the time.

    A 2cc draw two played from the graveyard, tends to distract attention from the fact that I have 5 counters and Illusions/Donate in hand.

     Meaning if I get you to fight the counter war over the DA I can cast the combo unimpeaded, whether I get the cards or not.

   The part about the red herring was set up by the preivious sentance...

Quote
Quote While I could have put other spells in their spot, nothing would have done the job of strengthening and drawing cards, as well(meaning in addition to and as good as).

This means that they strengthen the deck against monoB but against U based decks they are a red herring.

     sorry I should be more up-front about what I'm saying, and not take for granted that people understand what I'm talking about.
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j_orlove
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2002, 03:11:26 pm »

Well, you could have just said you use it to bait counters  

The part about drawing cards made it seem like that was the purpose of the D.A.'s--but if you can use them to start counterwars, great.

It is a sorcery, though, so you'd need a lot of mana to fight a counterwar over it and then hardcast the combo--but I don't see much else that works better, so I won't challenge their inclusion.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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MolotDET
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2002, 11:48:13 am »

It's so cool that this thing was moved to Extreme Vintage.  I am quite pleased by it.

     @j_orlove - There are always things about how a new deck works that you don't want to reveal before you face someone with it.  Like in the example of playing against leviat, had I known that he was playing Chapin Grow, I would have already known the tech I needed against him.  So, he might not of won game two or been around long enough to have gotten that broken draw on game three.
     And by the way, this is thread is about monoU Trix not the correct Metaphor.  Please try to stay on topic.

     I have updated the Primer to reflect the questions I have answered. <----- this is just so you guys don't think I am anwering questions with direct quotes from the Primer.
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pernicious dude
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2002, 09:56:38 pm »

Quote
Quote Cursed Totem:  I have always told people, ?if you have room in your sideboard, Totem works really well at shutting down Morphlings and Phids.?

Ophidian received errata at least three years ago.
It's a triggered effect, not an activated ability.
Cursed Totem doesn't stop it.

Don't feel bad, you're not the only one here that didn't know that.
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walking dude
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2002, 06:58:51 pm »

" The worst part about multi colored Trix is that basically, you are running an Academy Decklist with a different kill condition.  While you are changing your kill, you are not strengthen the deck against the problem match-ups.  "

I think this assumes a particular build. At NG last summer I played a guy with a UWB trix deck that used rectors and some black stuff. I was playing my control turboland deck (similar counter power to mono U). Black let him first turn kill me in game one (ok rit necro isn't technically a kill, but...). In addition, black and white give you more must counter cards that are cheap. If you fight a counter war, duress costs 1 and manadrain costs 2. When you are limited by mana cheaper is better. Going UWB also gives you a lot more game against hard core control decks since you can transformational sideboard if needed. They are then left without ceature removal as you run them over with negators and savannah lions.
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MolotDET
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2002, 04:41:30 am »

@pernicious dude - yes I realize that people have recently Realized that this ruling exsists.

@walking dude

Quote
Quote " The worst part about multi colored Trix is that basically, you are running an Academy Decklist with a different kill condition.  While you are changing your kill, you are not strengthen the deck against the problem match-ups.  "

I think this assumes a particular build. At NG last summer I played a guy with a UWB trix deck that used rectors and some black stuff. I was playing my control turboland deck (similar counter power to mono U). Black let him first turn kill me in game one (ok rit necro isn't technically a kill, but...). In addition, black and white give you more must counter cards that are cheap. If you fight a counter war, duress costs 1 and manadrain costs 2. When you are limited by mana cheaper is better. Going UWB also gives you a lot more game against hard core control decks since you can transformational sideboard if needed. They are then left without ceature removal as you run them over with negators and savannah lions.

You picked one sentance in my several paragraph Arguement against multi-colored Trix decks.  And a pretty week part to boot.  How about all this stuff...

Quote
Quote     Necropotance/Yawgamoth’s Bargain/Yawgamoth’s Will/Duress/Demonic Tutor/Enlightened Tutor/REB/Abeyance:  This covers the gamut of multicolored Trix decks and those with transformational sideboards.  IMO going mono-colored shores up many of the weaknesses of these other decks.  Screwing you mana base for a possible turn or two, faster kill is not even an option.  The problem with 4 or 5 color Trix in T1 is that it is too easily disrupted, and with nearly every archetype running some kind of disruption and the mono-colored decks running lots of it, multi-color versions are going to be taking extra hits.  While I won't scream B2B as a good reason to stay mono-colored, might I shout: Blood Moon, Wasteland, Dwarven Miner, Mox monkey, Null Rod or Powder Keg.  All common cards, all can fuck the multi-colored mana Base.  Any decks that pack Keeper hate maindeck and/or sideboard will have plenty of things to make you scream "B2B!"  Also on this note I get to run B2B, so those things that fold to nonbasic hate, do just that.  Multi-color Trix decks usually run something like 28 mana producers, so you are drawing more (as in quantity) useful cards in the mono version.
    Multi-variants own most aggro but any version of Trix will do very well against aggro.  Trix's problems crop up while playing against: Keeper, any mono black, mono blue, Artifacts, and other combo decks.  So what you are trying to do with monoU, is shore up are the control and monoB matches, to which the multi-colored versions will bow.  Also when pitted against another combo deck, with multi-color it is basically "whoever goes off first."  By going MonoU and being a more combo/control deck, you eliminate their ability to "go off" before you let them.
    With multi-colored Trix, you end up running 2 or 3 extra colors to support a very few cards of any of those colors.  While Necro and Bargain have great drawing power, they are mana intensive, which means you should run Dark Rituals to support them.  MonoU stabilizes you against your problem match ups, and your deck is filled with useful cards, rather than an enormous combo engine.
   The worst part about multi colored Trix is that basically, you are running an Academy Decklist with a different kill condition.  While you are changing your kill, you are not strengthing the deck against the problem match-ups.  Also all the draw7 effects leave too much to chance.  Filling your opponents hand is not good unless it is absolutely neccesary.  While Memory Jar is a great card, it comes with a hefty price tag and you run Tinker to back it up.
      The best things about using black in the deck are Duress, Yawgwill and YawgBargain.  MisDs and Mana Drains work just as well as Duress and in most cases have the side effects of speeding up your mana and, god willing, your drawing.
    Yawg Bargain is a great card, and in this deck could be concidered an autowin, if you can get it into play.  As I said the problem is, that it forces you to run Dark rituals and all those excess Tutors and Mana producers to insure that you can cast it, let alone force it into play and protect it.  And it makes the Mana Leaks in my deck look even better.
    Yawgwill is another great card, and if you can cast it you should be able to win.  But, if you could cast yawgwill you could have just as easily cast any other spell.  With monoU Trix the cards are in your hand and not in your graveyard, where Toramonds crypt is the game.  Also splashing Black just for this card is covered under, "why you don't screw your mana base."
    RedEblasts main is just so bad, because they are useless against anything but Blue.  Now while that is a bad match-up, it makes it worse when you play black.  While REB is good against BtB, it is not against Blood Moon, and staying mono-colored makes these points moot.  Also since D.E.Trix has a bigger counterbase that multi-colored decks it doesn't need to run semi-usefull cards.
      Abeyance is the one card I wish I could still run.  But in looking at that, if you could cast this you could win already and since I have removed the randomness of the draw7s, I no longer need it.  Also, splashing a fourth color for another tutor, Abeyance and whatever you can put in you sideboard seems ludicrous.  Of course the best point is that, If I wanted to have these problems I would be playing Keeper and would be better prepared for them, at that.
    I toyed with a transformational sideboard, but being monoU the best deck to transform into was Forbiddian.  But I found that the decks that this would work well against were the decks I should beat anyway.  Though this would make it stronger after SB against monoU in particular it made it weaker against monoB, which is the worse of the two match-ups.
    Basically, Consistancy makes the mono version better.

While all of this is not true of the UBw versions, the beef of my arguements remains true.

The deck folds to Non-basic hate.
The deck runs the extensive 28 mana producers.
The deck runs into problems with Keeper, any mono black, mono blue, Artifacts, and other fast combo decks.
The deck runs Dark Rituals to support Necro and Bargain.
The deck runs an enormous combo engine, so you draw less useful cards.
As for the transformational SideBoard, wouldn't it just be better to to be able to win with what you have?

MonoU could easily be transformed into Forbiddian, if that was what you were looking for.  And that would be a stronger deck than the B/W aggro available to a UBw version.
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walking dude
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2002, 09:50:42 am »

&#8220;  Multi-variants own most aggro but any version of Trix will do very well against aggro.  Trix's problems crop up while playing against: Keeper, any mono black, mono blue, Artifacts, and other combo decks.  So what you are trying to do with monoU, is shore up are the control and monoB matches, to which the multi-colored versions will bow.  Also when pitted against another combo deck, with multi-color it is basically "whoever goes off first."  By going MonoU and being a more combo/control deck, you eliminate their ability to "go off" before you let them.&#8221;

A lot of the problems you mention for the multi color deck stem from vulnerability to mana problems,  I that&#8217;s a problem I&#8217;m going to have to grant, but of the deck types you mentioned only mono u mono B really go after your mana. Neither tnt nor keeper runs b2b and academy certainly doesn&#8217;t. The other thing is that the UBW build has a lot of game against fast aggro (like artifacts or mono) because the rectors can serve double duty, they can fetch illusions, but post SB they can also fetch a moat or a light of day which will buy you more than enough time to combo them out.


&#8221;   Yawgwill is another great card, and if you can cast it you should be able to win.  But, if you could cast yawgwill you could have just as easily cast any other spell.  With monoU Trix the cards are in your hand and not in your graveyard, where Toramonds crypt is the game.  Also splashing Black just for this card is covered under, "why you don't screw your mana base."

More "I win spells" are better. I wouldn&#8217;t splash black just for this, but I think black gives you a lot. Both yawg win and necro are cards that say "you win" on them and are easily cast able. Plus I already explained why I like duress 1 its cheaper when mana is an issue, 2 it can be played in advance. If you play donate with a mana drain in hand and they have two counters you are out of luck. With duress you can duress first, and then not waste a key combo piece.

&#8220;MonoU could easily be transformed into Forbiddian, if that was what you were looking for.  And that would be a stronger deck than the B/W aggro available to a UBw version. &#8220;

On face, forbiddian is certainly a better deck, but you have to look at what it will be facing.  The BW aggro will be facing a deck with no removal. The forbiddian deck will be facing something with 4 or more red blasts. The reason a trans side works is because it doesn&#8217;t have to fight removal, when spells they use anyway work as removal it doesn&#8217;t make sense to transform.

,
I do like your deck, but I think you are being too dismissive of the UBW variants. I&#8217;ve watched those things win matches against very good decks piloted by very good players.
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Ufactor, the Restricted
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2002, 02:17:22 pm »

great primer  .  personally, I'm waiting for part two titled, "Suffering While Playing Against Stupid Redundant Combo Deck".
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Ufactor, the Restricted
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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2002, 02:23:13 pm »

oh yeah, two words, Bro- Spell Check!
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MikeR-
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« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2002, 09:52:44 pm »

Hey molot, roche from Gamemaster here!

I just have 1 question...how is mono-u a worse matchup for you than urphid, i'd figure the red blasts would make it a bit tougher overall...

just wondering .

roche-
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MolotDET
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2002, 04:22:46 am »

Mike,
     Strangely enough, siding in the red blasts is the problem, it lowers their blue card count so the Forces and MisDs aren't as readily useable.
     And, Back to Basics becomes very handy against U/r.

@walking dude
Quote
Quote More "I win spells" are better. I wouldn't splash black just for this, but I think black gives you a lot. Both yawg win and necro are cards that say "you win" on them and are easily cast able

Firstly other than Ill/Dont, only Yawgamoth's Bargain says "I win!" in that deck.  As for Necropotance being easily castable, what are you smoking?  Only because you are running Rectors and Drits is this "easy" to get into play.  And that is 8 cards you don't need to run in a monoU version.

As for the transformational SB I didn't suggest that.  MonoU trix doesn't need to transform to win after SB.

I did not dismiss the UBw variants. I think they are worlds better than the 4 or 5 color versions.  I just still think that the monoU is better.  As I said in the primer, "Consistancy makes the mono version better."

As for Ufactor, three words. Kiss my ass...
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Lord of the Goats
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2002, 04:56:44 pm »

Quote from: MolotDET+Dec. 24 2002,01:22
Quote (MolotDET @ Dec. 24 2002,01:22)Mike,
     Strangely enough, siding in the red blasts is the problem, it lowers their blue card count so the Forces and MisDs aren't as readily useable.
     And, Back to Basics becomes very handy against U/r.
i'll argue... u/r should board something like this:

- 4 fire/ice
-2 keg/starstorm

+4 reb
+1 capsise
+1 mis d

so it only looses 2 blue cards.... but it gains 5 counters. 4 of which double as win conditions when you play illusions. that leaves 4 non mana non blue cards rather than 2.... i'm thinking that's going to make litterally no negative impact on their game, especially since they did replace them with 1 cc counters.  also, most u/r now should runs fetchlands which makes it easier to get basic islands in the face of b2b. besides, u/r can deal reasonably well with b2b since they do run basic islands and more counters than you.
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MolotDET
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« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2003, 03:49:54 pm »

I am a little late on putting this up becuase I almost forgot to...

     Last Sunday I took the trip to NGNY to play in their Sunday torny,  I played monoU Trix against their field and came in second place.  Beating Stacker2 2/1(Walking Dude), Keeper 2/0 (LambchopNYC), and some monoG deck 2/0 (noname guy), I lost to a SuiB (another noname guy) when I draw 1 Island in two games.
     I ended up in second place after the Swiss, and for some reason their was no Finals because the guy in First place was undefeated.  Eventhough I had never played him...WTF

     Anyway I think I changed some peoples minds about monoU Trix, particularly Walking Dude.  So even though I felt robbed, I was victorious as far as I am concerned.

     Most of the regulars there were pretty nice and MOST of the people I know from there came over and said hello the second we noticed eachother...
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carl
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2003, 02:24:16 pm »

Quote from: MolotDET+Jan. 03 2003,21:49
Quote (MolotDET @ Jan. 03 2003,21:49)Last Sunday I took the trip to NGNY to play in their Sunday torny

     I ended up in second place after the Swiss, and for some reason their was no Finals because the guy in First place was undefeated.  Eventhough I had never played him...WTF
That's because they are running pure swiss AFAIK

I like your primer but I still have a few questions:

<Back to Basics>
Quote
Quote Note that if I were going to NGNY to play I would most assuredly have these main.
Did you play them main deck? If so, how much? Was it good? If not, why?

Why only 1 Cunning Wish? Wouldn't you consider a 2nd instead of Mystical Tutor?

I don't think you talked about the Medaillons. I think Moxen are better, but still would like to hear about them (I think it has its place in a mono-blue trix primer).

Also, with the fetchland, it could be easier to splash a second colour.
Have you considered/tested it? If not, why? (it the answer is "same as what I told Bebe", that will suffice)
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MolotDET
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2003, 01:30:12 pm »

Once again I am quite late in responding here.

@Carl

Quote
Quote Did you play them main deck? If so, how much? Was it good? If not, why? (about Back to Basics)
I did not play them main because I have found that it only confuses the game you are playing with Trix.  Even after Sb they are only really good if you can remove something for them (in most cases these are the Kegs and a random spell).  Most control decks are not running a Disenchant effect main anymore, so the B2B arent really that needed in game 1.

Quote
Quote Why only 1 Cunning Wish? Wouldn't you consider a 2nd instead of Mystical Tutor

Mystical Tutor can get you almost every card in the deck, so I don't think there is a replacment for it.  As far as the second Cunning Wish goes: it is common Knowledge amoungst monoU players that Wish doesn't bring all that much to the table for monoU.  Blue does not have the depth of spells that multi-colored decks have.  So while I have a utility card drawer in the SB I really don't have much else.  Possibly, only one of my SB instants and Capsize will be good against most decks.  I removed the maindeck Capsize for a Wish because Cap is not always needed.  What to remove other than that illudes me, though I can say for sure that it is not Mystical.

Quote
Quote Also, with the fetchland, it could be easier to splash a second colour.  Have you considered/tested it? If not, why?

I started testing the Fetchlands in December, right after the New England Weekend of Magic.  At the time I didn't want to go with an untested Idea.  The fetchlands have been a great addition to the deck, and I am completely happy with them.  Though originally I was testing 4 of them I have settled on 3.
     At the same time I was testing 2 Brainstorm in the place of the Deep Analysis and a Morphling in Place of Read the Ruins (which in turn had replaced FoF).  The Brainstorms didn't work out, even though they managed to give me better card parity at some times they didn't go along with the game of giving me extra cards in hand now.  Also only 2 of them didn't give me enough interaction with the fetchlands, esspecially when I cut the fetchies to 3.
     As far as splashing another color with the fetchies, I did test this with Red, White and Black.  Red I found really didn't lend anything to the deck.  All I found that was good was REB and Mox Monkey, which really didn't lend anything to the deck but a win more situation.  White was the same thing.  I found that Academy Rector, Orim's Chant and Disenchant were the only really good cards to add.  Rector needs the addition of more non-buisiness spells for it to be good.  And, while disenchant was good it didn't do it's job any faster than the REBs.  Orim's Chant was prehaps the best of these.  But splashing for just a one of or two of gave me the shakes.  With both of these colors I was not inspired to completely screw my manabase for anything they had to offer.
     When I retested black I found a few new reasons for not running the color that I had not previously realized.  At first the reasons to not use black were; 1) if I could cast the big spells that I could get from this color (Yawgwill, Necro, Bargain) I could easily cast a combo piece or any other spell,  2) Makes the manabase too fragile and requires additional pieces of mana (ie. Dark Ritual and Multi-lands),  3) Less consistant than mono-colored version (though the addition of more Tutors was welcome),  4) Subordinate spells that are gained (eg. Duress) are no more efficient than perexsisting spells.  After testing it again I found that not only are these things still true but;  1) the addition of cards like Duress, made the deck more proactive and I found that I was tapped out at inopportune times much more often.  Also they decreased the efficiency of Pitch counters,  2)  Using Black was a far cry from just splashing a second color.  Most of the spells that make it worth playing Black as an additional color require several black mana and thus do terrible things to the manabase,  3) While black was the most powerful color of those I tested it made the deck almost need the addition of a third color to be consistant,  4) It made the deck more of an all-out combo deck, and sacrificed the ability to control the game, thus losing far too often to control,  5) not only did playing Black lose me the ability to play Back to Basics but, it made me more suseptible to it and other non-Basic hate (IE. Bloodmoon, Price of Progress, Dwarven Miner).

Quote
Quote I don't think you talked about the Medaillons. I think Moxen are better, but still would like to hear about them (I think it has its place in a mono-blue trix primer).

   I removed the Sapphire Medallions for the new matrix of moxen and they never made it back into the deck, even though they were suggested by quite a few people.  While I never thought that they were bad per se, I think that they are too slow.  Understandably once one is out it is going to provide you with quite a bit of mana.
     I have recently begun retesting them at the behest of Feverdog.  Though my testing has been limited at this time, I have noticed that they do not provide a sufficient early game boost.  Only with a truely broken draw can you actually get one down on first turn and this usually leaves you unable to cast something else (IE. a hard-castable first turn counter).  While you can drop them off drain mana only in a best case senario can you have a castable Drain on first turn.  Fetchlands are also not conductive to getting out an early Medallion, at least if you are using the fetches properly.  I think my biggest problem with them right now is that they force an increased manabase.  While I was running only 23 mana in my version of the deck, my version with the medallions seems to need at least 27 mana.  So it is a larger and slower form of acceleration, eventhough it can produce a greater amount of mana.
     My preliminary verdict would have to be that they are no better or worse than the moxen.  But they change the style with which you play the deck and give up a modicum of early game control.

This is the newest version of the deck, which won at Gamemaster on Febuary 9, 2003

D.E.Trix

3 Illusions of Grandeur
3 Donate
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Gush
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Deep Analysis
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
2 Powder Keg
1 Morphling
1 Cunning Wish
1 Timetwister
1 Stripmine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
10 Islands
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
SB: 1 Stroke of Genius
SB: 1 Divert
SB: 1 Hurkyl’s Recall
SB: 1 Psionic Blast
SB: 1 Capsize
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Back to Basics
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
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