Fever Mask

[Fever]

I hate to up my own thread, but since there isnt much activity on the boards i thought i would sin a little  

Id like to hear from anyone who has been testing the new version of the deck(or a similar build). What have your results been thus far? I have to say i havent lost a match yet, and i am liking the deck more and more each time i play it.

I will not rest until people fear this deck!

[Milton]

I tried it this weekend.  I finished a dissapointing 2-2.  I won against a scrub playing WW and my other win came from an opponent that dropped.  My losses came from The Rock, with Red, packing 4 Artifact Mutation and 4 Somther and 4 Naturalize and just enough creatures and discard to kill me.  My other loss came from DuckTape or whatever the hell you want to call that deck.  The Smokestack deck with Meditates and Spheres of Resistance.  Karn kills Moxes, Welders swap now dead Moxes for Dreadnaughts, then brings back Dreadnaughts from your graveyard, swapping for your Mask and unless you can pay 12 in creature power you lose your Dreadnaught too.

I was very dissapointed.

[Fever]

@Milton

Im sorry things went so poorly for you. I would like to know which version of the deck you piloted, as this can definetly affect your results(assuming the new list is an improvement, which i think it is). However, the matcups you faced were not very representative in my opinion. Rock may be an Extended deck, but with all the hate you described, theres no doubt it would be a tough matchup. Stax is a tough matchup for a lot of decks, including this one, however i expect the amount of Stax decks being played to decrease sharply once GAT is officially dead on June 1st.

I hope this one bad experience hasnt made you give up on the deck, because i think you could have a lot of success with it. Perhaps you could PM me your AIM name so we could do some testing online?

[Zharradan]

Fever, have you considered (and/or tested) Impulse over the Slights you added? I'd be interested to hear if the 1cc of Slight is critical to this deck, or if Impulse would do better.

[Fever]

@Zharradan

I most definetly considered Impulse when i first built the deck, and even tested it briefly. The main problem with it is the casting cost, there are just so many things i want to cast on turn two that its tough to justify Impulse over Sleight. I know Impulse digs 2 cards deeper, but i dont think the extra mana is worth it. If only it was one mana, well, then it would be broken.



Also, i thought i would let everyone know that i have dropped the Sol Ring in favor of the 4th Sleight of Hand. This brings my mana count down to 22, which is fine considering all the cantrips, but more importantly it gives me one extra search card, which i love.

[MoreFling]

Doesn't the Sol Ring provide another way for a first turn Mask? I thought that would be pretty much a good play.

[Fever]

It does indeed, and that is a good play. The only problem is that, apart from the occasional hard-cast FoW, thats the only thing the Sol Ring was good for. It just didnt happen often enough for my liking. And yes, i am aware that you can use colorless mana to pay for Finkels under Mask, but i usually dont have a problem getting to 3 mana.

Anyway, if i miss the Sol Ring in playtesting, i will consider putting it back.

[MarkPharaoh]

Fever, I love your deck, it's a blast to play and I have been doing well on Apprentice with it.  My main problem is the same with most decks and that is sideboarding correctly.  Could you post on how you SB against the popular matchups?

[Fever]

Thats a good question Mark, I myself often have trouble figuring out what to sb out, because the deck is so tight. Now, its tough for me to answer this because i am currently testing a different variation of the deck, but i will go with the last list posted and what i would do against the major decks.

1) Keeper
Nothing. Honestly. I know i have B2B in the side, but i never bring it in. For one, the deck is built to beat control, but also you have to consider that B2B doesnt hose them nearly as much as it once did.


2) Trix
-2 Negator
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Gilded Drake

The plan here is to steal their Rector so they cant get Bargain into play. Beat down with Finkels to gain an advantage and chip away at their life. Once they are under 15 life, trample them to death.


3) TNT
-2 Negator
-3 Lim-Dul's Vault
+2 Masticore
+3 Recoil

Negators go out for Cores, which are there to act as blockers and Welder assassins. Recoil is just an all-around answer to any annoying perm, make sure you time it right to get the most out of it. Keep Welders off the table at all costs and you should be fine.


4) Psychatog
-4 Shadowmage
-2 Negator
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+4 Smother
+3 Gilded Drake

The Tog is your doom, kill it, steal it, counter it, anything to keep it off your opponent's side of the table. Thats the one and only key to victory. Good luck.


Thats all i can say right now. Of course none of these sb methods is 100%, and if you find something isnt working then you can change it. As i said though, its hard for me to comment since im playing a different variation of the deck at the moment. I havent decided if its better or not, but i will update when i come to a solid conclusion.\n\n

[MarkPharaoh]

Thanks for the reply Fever, they all look correct to me besides:

Quote 2) Trix
-2 Negator
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Gilded Drake

The plan here is to steal their Rector so they cant get Bargain into play. Beat down with Finkels to gain an advantage and chip away at their life. Once they are under 15 life, trample them to death.

The problem with bringing Drakes in is because you can't steal a Rector if they already have a Therapy in hand or in the graveyard.  I think for this matchup you need to simply outrace them, 1 hit with a Dreadnought can spoil there plans of Rectoring for a Bargain, they can still Bargain for 7-9 cards and win, but it is much less of a chance of them winning then if they are Bargaining for 15+ if you are only swinging with a Finkel.  

Quote 3) TNT
-2 Negator
-3 Lim-Dul's Vault
+2 Masticore
+3 Recoil

Negators go out for Cores, which are there to act as blockers and Welder assassins. Recoil is just an all-around answer to any annoying perm, make sure you time it right to get the most out of it. Keep Welders off the table at all costs and you should be fine.

Would you apply the same strategy against Stax?  I fount that B2B really screwed up Stax a lot to where Smokestack hurt them just as much as it hurt me.  I lost in a semi-final in a mini to a Stax deck but it was my own fault because I didn't force the Welder turn1 game3 and cost me the match, so I now know to keep that damn Welder off no matter what .

[Fever]

I havent really faced Stax yet, but im not sure exactly what i would bring in. Back to Basics seems like a good idea, especially since you dont really want Masticore in that matchup. Their Welders are a little less troublesome because they dont have haste, but they are still problematic. The thing is, you cant really bring in the Core because you cant handle the card disadvantage in that matchup, and you need every single perm you draw to hit the table.

Your point about Trix is well taken, and i know that with a Therapy in the yard the Drake wont do much. However, the Trix player doesnt always have one, and they often rely on you to kill their Rector. You could try B2B instead of Drake, since they usually tap out for a Rector.

[Diablos8]

I know you haven't faced Stax yet, but do you think Hurkles Recall would be a good option for the sideboard against it?? It's not only amazing vs. Stax, but can also be quite useful vs. TnT as well. I think Hurkles would be a great choice: just wait until the Stax player drops a Grafted Skullcap, Skullcap ability on Stack, Hurkles and have fun.

[Fever]

Hurkyl's isnt bad, but im really not sure how effective it is vs Stax, since i havent seen any version running Skullcap. They would probably be better against MUD, which does run Skullcaps, but i dont expect to see that deck too often. There will be a decrease in Prison decks once GAT is gone, and i think the majority of the ones you will see will be Stax and not MUD.

[mrieff]

Against Rector, have you thought about Stifle?

Besides the CC, its great because you can attack the deck in different phrases:

- When they sac the Rector to get Bargain

- To counter the loss of life from Illusions


For the rules gurus:
Can you counter the CIP effect of a Dreadnaught with it?

[Akuma (gio)]

Quote Can you counter the CIP effect of a Dreadnaught with it?

No you can't. The way Phyrexian Dreadnought was originally worded, you could have countered it, but the errata makes its CIP a replacement effect and not a triggered ability.

In short, Stifle does not counter the Dreadnought's CIP.

[Katzby]

Quote No you can't. The way Phyrexian Dreadnought was originally worded, you could have countered it, but the errata makes its CIP a replacement effect and not a triggered ability.

Not to be a stickler, but your explanation might be confusing to people who are trying to understand the situation.

It is not proper to say that "a triggered ability was erratad to be a replacement effect."  This is becase the term "triggered ability" refers to an ability, while "replacement effect" refers to an effect (in this case of an ability).

My understanding is that a more proper explanation is that dreadnought was erratad to change its triggered ability into a *static ability.*  And the static ability causes a replacement effect to occur on the event that dreadnought would come into play.


Katzby

[Fever]

I had wished to write a lengthy reply, but unfortunetly i have not had the time as i have been busy with work and stuff. After testing out some different builds, including Smmenen's variation on GroMask, i got a really good feel for which cards worked and which ones didnt. What i present now is essentially the final version of the deck.

Fever Mask

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Duress
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
3 Sleight of Hand
3 Midirection
4 Force of Will

4 Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Illusionary Mask

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
4 Island

Sideboard:
3 Recoil
4 Smother
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Back to Basics
3 Gilded Drake

The only part of the deck which may change in the future is the sideboard, but that is only natural. The rest of it is basically set in stone, as the deck has peformed above all expectations i had for it in this incarnation. The only major change has been the inclusion of Misdirection, which is really key. After playtesting Semenen's deck, i found i just couldnt live without these in the deck, they are just that good. I might even run 4 if i had the room, but thankfully the deck is so tight that i do not have to make that decision. If i can somehow manage to gather the cards needed for this deck over the next several months(years?) this is the deck i plan on playing.

In my opinion, this is the best Mask variant out there, so if you own the cards for it, go ahead and kick some ass.\n\n

[Os-Vegeta]

Fever,

I'm liking the addition of Misdirection to the deck, as I too was beginning to question why you weren't running Misdirections in spite of Smother and Naturalize being used in quite a few decks now.  With Misdirection in and Negators out, are you missing having a secondary win condition at all, or has Fever Mask gotten to the point where you can confidently play with just the Mask combo as your kill?

[Fever]

I actually liked the Negators, but they were not really necessary. I found that i usually won my games through Finkel/Nought, and the number of decks against which Negator shines is diminishing.

Also, keep in mind that even though i have cut 2 threats, i have added more protection in the form of Misdirection, so it evens out to a certain extent. Honestly, even if i could find room for the Negators somehow, i would rather run a 4th Sleight, MisD, Duress, etc.

[MisterShark]

Also concurrent with what Fever noted regarding Negators; with the return of Sligh type decks, due to the extinction of GaT, Negators are going to be more risky these days.

Fever,
I'm gathering the necessary cards to build your deck and will be happy to report my play results after ample testing.  I had put together what I thought was the optimal Mask build, with pure speed and disruption in mind.  It will be interesting to see which variant will yield more successful stats.

[Smmenen]

Fever,

What were your results when testing my deck?  Just curious.

After pulling up this deck I realized that FoF needs to belong in my build.

Steve

[Fever]

@Smmenen

It seemed very explosive, yet a little inconsistent. There were some things i loved about it, like the Misdirections and Merchant Scroll. However i really didnt like Mana Drain, as i would tap out quite often early in the game. Also, having played my deck concurrently, i missed the Finkels a lot, i feel that they provide a threat/draw package that cannot be ignored in this type of deck. They allow me to essentially win even without a Mask in play, because if i am able to get one going my opponent will be hard-pressed to come back. I also felt that Gush was marginal, because the Nought really doesnt gain anything from it as opposed to a Dryad or Tog.

Keep in mind that my testing was not extensive, and consisted mostly of pummeling poor saps over apprentice as well as goldfishing. I dont want to sound like im knocking your deck, because as you can see, i have borrowed some elements of it for my final version, but it just wasnt my style. Too much control, not enough pressure.

[Smmenen]

I played it rather controlish - instead playing the combo I would try and drain into it or get up to enough mana to use Drain back up.  

Steve

[walking dude]

Fever,

If I was to add a consult what would I cut to fit it? I'm thinking a slight or a vault but I wanted to ask you.

Thanks

[Fever]

I would not remove a Sleight, and since the Vault is mainly in there to fetch Mask/Nought, that would be the logical choice. I mean, its not like the deck falls apart if you do the opposite, but i think the Consult fills the role of Vault much more than Sleight of Hand. Also, at 22 mana, i feel like 7 cantrips is almost a necessity.

Good luck with the deck and dont hesitate if you have any other questions.

[bebe]

Well, i've been fooling with Mask for awhile so I decided to test out your configuration. With the demise of Gro-Mask variants, and with my preference not to use Tainted/Negator, it looked damn fine on paper. I palyed the deck as presented first and I liked it. Still, i occasinally found that it was not fast enough to stand off some very fast aggro decks - read Sligh, R/g, etc. I soemktimes found that I lost by a turn. This was a problem I had also encountered with Gro-Mask on occasion.
I know the deck is supposed to beat aggro handily but if you get any kind of a slow start ...
So I added two Togs for one Sleight and one Duress. So far so good and the Togs were golden against a number of decks providing a second win condition as well. I'm probably playing overkill but I like them. I tested against Keeper ( missed the one Duress but a resolved Tog was bad for Keeper), Goblin Sligh, Fish and TnT. I must say the deck performed as well as my old  - now defunct U/g gro version.
I think you have done a fine job in retooling Mask fo0r what the expected meta will be. Kudos.

[Fever]

Thanks for the kind words BeBe, im glad you like the deck. Like i have always said, there is no one optimal build for every deck, each player has to find what works best for him and his local metagame. If you found yourself losing to fast aggro, and adding the Togs solved that for you, then thats what needs to be done. I support any customization of the deck, as long as it helps you win games.

I hope to hear from you again on this issue, perhaps you could take it to a tourney at 401 or Hairy T's.

[MisterShark]

Fever,
I tried my newly assembled Fever Mask build and was very happy with how much more reliably and consistantly it flowed threats and answers than my old Tainted Pact version.
Didn't have the chance to test extensively but one of the decks that unhinged it slightly was Gay Fish.  
-A first duel, main-decked Null Rod neutered me, followed up by Mishra's Factorys blocking and killing Finkel after Finkel.  Pair this situation with the Maze of Ith that my opponent dropped, and I was done.  
-Duel two, I board in Recoils, but it's hard to empty my Fish opponent's hand in order to make him discard a bounced Null Rod or Maze of Ith.
In summary; I'm thinking that a lone Strip Mine or a Strip and a Wasteland might be worth considering, even if only for the sideboard.  Further supporting this board choice, I wouldn't want an opponent's active LoA to stay on the table.
One additional sideboard choice that seemed to help in my struggle against Fish, Hulk, and most likely in future match-ups against TnT, is Contagion.  Killing off a Gorilla Shaman and/or Goblin Welder can be everything.

Besides the board though, I'm trying to decide what single card to cut in order to fit in a 4th Duress.  That card, to me, is a 'must play 4 of' kind of card, and has never dissappointed.

I look forward to further testing and tweaking.  My congrats on realizing a great Mask variant.

[Gabethebabe]

Quote (Katzby @ June 17 2003,10:49)

Quote No you can't. The way Phyrexian Dreadnought was originally worded, you could have countered it, but the errata makes its CIP a replacement effect and not a triggered ability.

Not to be a stickler, but your explanation might be confusing to people who are trying to understand the situation.

It is not proper to say that "a triggered ability was erratad to be a replacement effect."  This is becase the term "triggered ability" refers to an ability, while "replacement effect" refers to an effect (in this case of an ability).

My understanding is that a more proper explanation is that dreadnought was erratad to change its triggered ability into a *static ability.*  And the static ability causes a replacement effect to occur on the event that dreadnought would come into play.


Katzby

Sorry to bring back this discussion, but I'll tell you what the ability of the Dreadnought really is: it is an ability that "modifies the come-into-play event". It is the same class of come-into-play abilities as:
- "AS" comes into play (Clone, Meddling Mage, Voice of All)
- Comes into play with.. (Spike Weaver, Amplify creatures)
- Comes into play tapped (Polar Kraken)

When a creature comes into play you do as follows:

1) Execute abilities that modify the come into play event
2) Put the creature into play - apply static effects (this goes simultaneous, e.g. a 2/2 white creature comes into play as 3/3 when Crusade is in play)
3) State-based effects (if any are applicable)
4) Put "When comes into play" abilities on the stack

[Fever]

About Gay Fish, i never tested that matchup at all, so i cant really give you any insight on how to improve it. However, i dont see how adding a single Strip Mine to the sb is gonna solve much. I think Back to Basics out of the side will be much better at handling their manlands, and slowing their mana(especially vs Ur). Between B2B, Recoil, and Smother, i dont see Fish being all that tough. Of course, a lot of this rests on whether or not the Fish player is running Null Rod main, which a lot of them arent anymore.

As for Duress, its pretty much the 61st card, but i just cannot find anything to cut for it. If you can find a way to squeeze it in, then more power to you, but all i can think of would be to cut a Misdirection, which i dont really want to do.