Need more eyes to look at decklist

[Abra_Volta]

I have been trying for a concept that I thought of a little while ago and wish to get a few more people to look at it and tell me what ya think.

The basic premise is on 2 points:
1) Oath usually beats aggro
2) Mono-black disruption usually beats control

What happens if you combine the two?

Here's the latest: (still haven't come up with a name yet for it)

Oath Engine:
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing

Oath Critters:
1 Spike Weaver
1 Spike Feeder
1 Spirit of the Night

Disruption:
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Creeping Mold (also fills enchantment destruction spot)
1 Mind Twist
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Useful Stuff:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Regrowth (might get yanked due to Oath engine)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

Mana Acceleration:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring

Mana Base:
4 Bayou
4 City of Brass (might get switch to Llanowar Waste if I can find 'em)
4 Forest
9 Swamp

Sideboard: (transformational to more Sui based vs. control)
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Ritual
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Powder Keg

[Msckmagnet]

Have you tried playtesting this deck yet?  It seems like it would work but there might be some slight problems but all in all it looks like a very interesting deck that could have some potential.

[MolotDET]

the bigest problem I can see right now is that you have a 11 cards that have double color casting cost of one color or another, with not enough mana excel.  Also you have the mana curve heavely scued twords black, but you have 16 Black spells and 14 Green.  Also the count of thirty mana producers seems a bit high since you haven't included any dark rituals.

  I will take more time to look at this some other time, I can say that it looks promising, even though it needs a little work.

[Abra_Volta]

No, so far I haven't playtested it but there is 2 tournaments this weekend which i'm thinking of bringing it too.

How do you get 30 mana producers? I only count 24 ways to get my mana. I never count the Lotus as it's a one-shot deal and strictly is acceleration. If you are counting the Strip/Wastes, I also don't consider those mana-producers as their job is to disrupt an opponent's mana base.

If i'm relying on my Strip/Wastes for mana, then something has gone terribly wrong......

[Justin]

Quote If i'm relying on my Strip/Wastes for mana, then something has gone terribly wrong......

.........or your opponent is playing basic lands. I would certainly consider lotus a mana producer, considering that it does one thing -produce mana. 30 mana sources is a bit high for any deck. Id also pull the mind twist -too expensive, and without dark rituals its not all that explosive. Other than that, good luck!

[Puschkin]

Hm, interesting, indeed!
I have another issue, though: Your victory condition. In fact it´s only Spirit of the Night. I could see you beating down with Feeders vs. aggro, but what´s vs. control? Let´s say, Keeper sends SotN farming, what are you going to do? Abyss, Moat or Morphling means that you can´t win anymore with your Feeder and Weaver.
Also you have no way to force your opponent to trigger Oath. Traditional Oath decks can just gain control of the game and hard-cast Morphling to ride to victory but you can´t do that. Let´s assume a smart Sligh player that analyzed your possibilities and doesn´t play any creatures second game, he just burns and scrolls you. Hardcast Feeder and wait for Blessing to show up to shuffle it back when it gets burned/is sacced?

Maybe add Mishras or Treetops, but as was pointed out, this may be too painful for your manabase. I have no real solution, though, at least none that isn´t janky such as Verdant Touch or Sleeper Agent which I would include in my casual decks to trigger Oath.

[leviat]

The deck looks promising but I don't think using only one Spirit of Night is a good idea. One Sword To Plowshare is going to hurt you, bigtime.

Avoid Fate might be usefull to make sure that your Spirit stays in play, but their usefullness is very unique and could often just be a wasted card.

Also, as someone pointed out, your Oath engine might never get activated. In this case, you could consider playing with Sleep Agents over the Spikes. They work pretty well for triggering off Oath.

So, I would suggest the following:

Out: 1 Swamp, 1 Mind Twist, 1 Creeping Mold
In: 1 Spirit of the Night, 2 Sleeper Agent

SB Out: Nantuko (what if you just had a few city's of brass out?)
SB In: Avoid Fate

[Abra_Volta]

Thanks for the input. More is definitely welcome.

Ok, i'm hearing I have a heavy mana base. I was thinking of using Mishra's but that puts many too way many colorless lands and the chances of getting hosed does not please me.

I could maybe pull 2 Forest and 2 Swamp for 2 Treetops and 2 Spawning Pools.

Would it be an idea to pull the Mind Twist and replace it with Living Wish? That would give me a bit of a backup if SotN was farmed or the advantage of tutoring for a Negator/Shade in the sideboard if needed.

I thought about Avoid Fate but it seems way too situational and narrow. It won't make it maindeck, but there is a sideboard possibilty there.

For the Sligh games. I've been thinking this is gonna be one of my harder match-up come game 2/3 against a smart opponent. About all I can think of is a 2nd Feeder in the sideboard and get a recursion with the Blessings.

[Drogo]

I was going to snort in derision at this deck, but you know it just might work.  Even if it was lousy, it looks like it would be fun to play.

I think the Regrowth can certainly go, blessings are sufficient.   Creeping Mold, hmm.   I think maybe that is a little pricey.  Maybe go down to 2?  

You do need a non Oath win, I think Treetops are a great idea.  Makes you more open to wasteland, but you can't have everything.    I think more aggro creatures to oath for are a good idea.  This deck is not nearly as heavy control as a "normal" oath deck, so I don't know if weavers and feeders are the way to go at all.   What are other good options....maybe Triskelion as he is a bit more aggro and still works with the oath.  Avatar of Woe might be cute and he's in the right colours (not that you are likely to every cast him, but what the hell).  

I think this deck can support Mind Twist, it has a heavy enough mana base.  I don't know if it needs it.

My thoughts then:

-1 Regrowth
-1 Creeping Mold
-1 Feeder
-1 Spirit of the Night
- 4 Forest

+1 Crop Rotation (I like fetching Strip or Treetop Village at will)
+4 Treetop Village
+2 Triskelion
+1 ??  Necro since you are playing rituals?   Necro-Oath, now there's a deck type!

Please let us know how this deck fares, I'm curious now.

Tony

[Dreisgen]

If u use Cities, u could add mox sapphire and 1 morphling MD (as an additional kill method).  Might need some duals with blue too (which would let u add ancestral and time walk too)...

[Abra_Volta]

I thought about adding a touch of blue for Morphling....but if I did that then I would probably just play a normal Oath deck. This is something of my own design and I just want to see how far I can take this.

Btw, I have decided to run this deck at the tournaments i'm playing in this weekend...only problem is I can't find my stinkin Emerald. Maybe someone at the tourneys will loan me one.

Oh, and I think i've found a card I can use against sligh's no-critter burn technique....Nether Void. I'll just go into massive LD mode, drop a Void and then try to keep him there. Just an idea right now.

[Matt The Great]

Do not splash Morphling. His best abilities require blue mana, and Cities are not going to perform this task well.

[Abra_Volta]

Well, I ended up playing my creation this weekend and needless to say it performed better than I expected. I didn't win either of the 2 tournaments I was in but it did post a 5th in the first which was 3 rounds with a cut to Top 4 and then got me in a Top 8 in the second tourney.

Here's the deck I played:

4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
3 Creeping Mold
2 Sylvan Library
1 Regrowth

1 Spike Feeder
1 Spike Weaver
1 Triskelion (couldn't find a Spirit of the Night in time)

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
1 Necropotence
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mind Twist
2 Powder Keg

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
4 Treetop Village
4 Bayou
4 Llanowar Wastes
7 Swamp

Sideboard:

4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Ritual
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Nether Void
1 Powder Keg
1 Spike Feeder

Forgive me if everything is in perfect picture detail. It's getting late and I don't take very detailed notes.

1ST TOURNEY: GameTech Friday Night Sanctioned T1

16 people showed up so they were holding 3 rounds with a cut to Top 4.

Round 1: Sam L. playing mono-black Suicide style

Things start off a bit slow as I sit down and have to wait a bit as he finishes building his deck as the round gets underway. After a minute or two he apologizes, we shake, and begin shuffling.

Game one is a total wipeout as he proceeds to Duress, Hymn, Hymn, Duress me then lays a Hippie and followed with a Shade. I die 2 turns later.

Game two is a bit better as we both destroy each other's hand. Pretty soon we're in a topdecking war which leades into a Mishra Factory (his) vs. Treetop (mine) damage race. I'm starting to feel I could pull it out when he topdecks a Strip Mine and sends Mishra in for the kill. I dies with him at 5 life.

Games: 0-2 Rounds: 0-1

Round 2: Bob I. playing R/G Elves & Bolts. I later find out it's Elfball or something like that.

Game one starts fairly decent as I destroy any land he enchants (Fertile Ground, Wild Growth) so he starts firing off bolts to my head. I hardcast a Weaver and start serving. Weaver is soon joined by Triskelion who keeps the board clear of any mana-producing birds/elves he sees. Weaver finishes the job.

Game two I can't really remember but it was close as a Treetop goes all the way and I win with 1 life left.

Games: 2-2 Rounds: 1-1

Round 3: Fro playing Mono Blue

I was looking forward to this match as I wanted to know if my sideboard would kick in like it should.

Game one was a sorted back and forth affair as he countered a ton of stuff and started serving beats with some smaller blue critters (can't remember what they were, but they were doing 2 damage each. I keep using the Oath engine to stay in the game as a Treetop keeps evading everything one way or the other. He can't find an answer after Trisky does his shotgun impression and Mr. Forest goes in for the kill.

Now, I'm assuming he's sideboarding to either A) stop the Oath or B) stop the Treetops or both. Little did he know....

Game 2 starts off typical Sui fashion. First turn Negator, second turn Shade, and opponent dead.

Games: 4-2 Rounds: 2-1

So, we wait for the top 4 and I'm not in it (no surprise but was still hoping). I had bad tiebreakers as the 2 opponents I beat didn't give me many points. At least I got some playtime in and a few people comment on the "old-school" nature of my deck as more than one asked to read Triskelion.

[Abra_Volta]

I head down to Dreamer’s for their T1 for a Timetwister. I end up being a little forgetful and find out that I have a 3 hour wait as it starts at 3pm instead of noon.

So I entertain myself watching some of the kids play Pokemon and go through a couple binders looking for trade stuff.

After a while it finally comes tourney time and a couple of the people from the GameTech tourney are there so we chat a bit.

The tourney has 20+ people so it will be 4 rounds with a Top 8.

Round 1: Craig playing something Keeperish

Craig is pretty well known down at Dreamer’s and I already consider myself 0-1 as I know he has vastly more experience and a much stronger deck. I try to bolster my spirit and decide to give him a run for the money.

Game one starts off badly as he counters all my LD and any other threats I have and soon lays a Morphling and the big blue beastie lives up to his rep.

I didn’t show too much of my deck so Craig has a tough time sideboarding against me. Once again, the sideboard should through a wrench in the works.

Games two I get a decent hand. Turn 1 Duress, turn 2 Negator, turn 3 Shade. He scopes and shakes his head. He never saw it coming.

Game 3 starts and I can’t remember much of it. I see my life go 20, 13, 6, 1 so I think I got a Necro down and then locked myself in. He wins easily.

Games: 1-2 Rounds: 0-1

Round 2: Ben R. playing Academy

Game one starts with him and he proceeds to lay a ton of artifacts and the Academy. I kept a hand that would’ve smashed an aggro deck but I just lay my land and say go. He goes off turn 2.

I think about what to sideboard as I know Academy sometimes transforms into Super-Negator but I decide to go for it and sideboard in like I do against blue.

It starts off solid as a 1st turn Negator with a 2nd turn Keg destroys most of his start. A 3rd turn Duress pulls his card drawer (Impulse) and Negator serves.

Game 3 goes pretty much the same way as I get a Negator down and destroy his hand.

Games: 3-3 Rounds: 1-1

Round 3: Jacob G. playing something Survival-Tradewind Riderish.

These end up being my longest games as I keep the Oath engine going and gets to use it a few times and we start to bog down as he gets Squee and we just jockey for position. A beatdown critter (ie, SPIRIT OF THE NIGHT) would’ve wrecked him.

Game one is mine as I keep him low on mana and keep his mana creatures off the board while I serve with Treetop.

Game two is his as I lose to various beatdown (Quirion Ranger being the most annoying). I believe he also gets a Tradewind going for a few turns before I’m able to blow it out of the sky with a Weaver fed shotgun from Trisky but the damage was already done.

Game three goes on forever as time is called and we’re allowed 3 turns each. No beatdown critter for me means I can’t punch through much damage and we end up with a draw.

Games: 4-4 Rounds: 1-1-1

Round 4: Torey A playing mono-black

We shuffle and I start with a 1st turn Duress and see nothing but critters. Unfortunately I see all his critters cost 4+ mana to cast (Abyssal’s and bigger). I set up the Oath engine and keep the board cleared as a Treetop serves.

Game two is the same way as I know it’s kind of a scrubby deck. I feel bad beating him so bad but I need the win to stand any kind of chance at Top 8.

Games: 6-4 Rounds: 2-1-1

The top 8 is announced and I’m very surprised to find out I’m seeded 7th.

Top 8 Match: Tom F.

I don’t have any notes except life totals and I totally cannot remember what the heck he was playing. But all the games were close.

Game one goes to me as it looks like I get a Necro-Oath-Feeder engine going and lay waste to his lands until he gets a Zuran Orb out. Then it takes a bit but I finally kill him.

Ahhh, now I remember what he was playing. He was with an Oath deck. I sideboard out my Oaths as I hope he keeps his in which would allow me more threats. The Shades and Keg came in. Game two stalls into a Mishra-Treetop battle but then he plays a Sacred Ground (whichever white enchantment allows his land to come back into play. Since I can’t get rid of it fast enough he takes control and smashes me.

Game three goes more in his direction as he gets that damn enchantment out again and Wastes my own Treetops. I mulliganed once to try for a Negator hand as I sideboarded them in but don’t get it. He gets his game going and I lose my first ever Top 8 appearance at Dreamer’s.

All the games were good game but oofta were they long. We both made mistakes, we both made solid plays. But in the end his card-drawing (Brainstorm, Impulse, AK) does me in.

So ends the first couple outings with this deck. Some people commented that it looked like it would be fun to play and honestly it was. I was proud that this was my own design and did better than any “net” deck I have created before.

I’ll tweak it a bit and maybe give it a few more tournaments to fully explore the design.

[Drogo]

First off, some congrats.  Decent finishes for a new deck that hasn't had a whole lot of time to develop.  

A couple notes (and I could easily be wrong here since I don't have all the details of your match).

-You seemed to imply a stall against the Tradewind deck and said a beatdown creature would finish it.  Isn't the Triskie fairly beatdownish if need be?  You can use him to deal 2 to opponent, 1 to himself and Oath every turn.   I guess that isn't that fast as you could oath up something other than the Trike, but it should let you beat out a stall.   That is assuming he can't attack.

-Sacred Ground doesn't protect man lands when they are creatures.  ie. If Mishra's and Treetops are butting heads in combat.  I don't know if that is why you lost that one game for sure, but it is a counterintuitive ruling that a lot of people don't know about.

Anyway, I like this deck.  I may trade for some Oaths so I can give it a shot.

Regards,

Tony

[Abra_Volta]

Thanks for the compliment and a BIG thanks for the idea to add Treetops. They were a big help.

During the stall with the Tradewind deck that's exactly what I was trying to do. Oath up Triskelion, ping him for 2 and then use the last to ping Trisk so I could Oath again.

The stall was because he had 3 Wall of Roots out and I was slowly trying to wittle them away as it was his only mana source due to my LD.

And that's exactly what happened with the Sacred Ground. The first time he had it out he had one Treetop and I had 2 out. I attacked and he blocked one. I just assumed it protected his Treetop so it came back into play tapped. I guess i'll have to remember that his critter-land won't come back (ie, Oath a Weaver/Feeder, move counter to Treetops, serve). I guess I don't have to be afraid of it anymore.

A couple things I noticed about the deck.

1) Feeder-Necro is sick sick sick.

2) Be prepared to take a few points of damage doing GG spells. In the early game I usually found myself with at least 1 Llanowar Waste, which helps with the color problem, but I hate taking 4-5+ points of damage. Though I don't believe this actually lost me any games.

I've also just been informed about +x/+x counters on man-lands get to stay. It was a question I had during the tournament and now that I know for sure, the Treetops can get HUGE if you have enough mana.

I'm going to keep this thing built and try to refine it a bit more (there's another T1 for a Unlimited Sapphire @ Dreamer's in a few weeks).

I think the weakest part is going to be the sideboard. The transformational idea worked for a couple games but I'm thinking I might need to change it up a bit.

As always, any comments are welcome.....oh, and btw, I have begun work on a T1 Stasis. I miss the card and someone needs to bring it back.

[Crater Hellion]

it seems to me like it should work, since you combine 2 different deck types, one of which that beats the majority of decks of a specific category. necro + oath = goodness.

[Zherbus]

Its become more of a report thing, so Ill leave it there.

[beastmouth]

Your opponent's Sacred Ground would not bring a man land back that had died in combat.  The land dies as a result of having taken lethal damage, thus the rules kill it, not a spell or effect you control.

[Razor]

Have you considered how great it would be to Oath into a nice, fat Phantom Nishoba?  Spirit of the night seems good.  Crater Hellion could be a blast (literally).  Iridescent Angel goes the distance more often than not.  Spiritmonger might even be good since he is in the right colours.  Triskelion and Weaver may be good but fatter beats may be better in your more-aggro build.

Brainstorming a bit: Have you considered the tech of Still Life?  or Eladamri's Vineyards?  Many decks burn to the GG mana.

Oh, have you considered siding a couple of Verdant Touch to *force* your opponent to have a critter to get your Oath started up.  This might crop up if your opponent decides they're going to slowly burn you out or something.

Are you calling it: Black Oath?

[Zherbus]

I just want to point out that you won against bad decks, and lost against good decks, with the exception of academy. I believe the academy victory to be a very fortunate one for you. You auto lose game 1 all the time and then you win IF Suicide will win the same way.

Here is a chart I made with a rough Tier designation to what this deck has and hasnt beaten.

Decks youve lost against:

Suicide Black (Tier 2)
Keeper (Tier 1)
Oath (Tier 2)

Decks youve won against:

Elfball (Tier 4)
Fish.dec (the 'mono-blue') (Tier 4, unless it was tuned, Tier 2)
Abyssal Specter.dec (Tier 4)

Decks youve tied with:

Tradewind.dec (Tier 3)

This would indicate to me that this is indeed, a Tier 3 deck at best. Your original mission as to beat aggro and control at the same time, yet youve lost all your control matchups and to a good aggro deck.

You lost against a tuned aggro but MONO black works very fluidly, while your stumbles with its multi lands and green cards. The one match you stole away from Keeper is because the deck is rogue. Suprise factor can usually steal a game or two. I'll leave your own quote below as the reason you lost to Blue based Oath.

Quote But in the end his card-drawing (Brainstorm, Impulse, AK) does me in.

@Razor - Vineyard is a very bad idea. Too many decks can use 2 colorless every turn.

(Keeper/Ose/BBS can use it like it uses drains, Sligh can nowhard cast fireblast and run cursed scrolls for 1 mana, and Abyssal Specer can come out for BB!!!)

[Drogo]

Razor:  Your Oath enforcers are the Treetop Villages.  If they want to play the no creature game, fine, stomp them with the Villages.    They are usually enough to force Oathing so that something like Verdant touch is unecessary.  

As for the name, it has to be Necro Oath!

Tony

[Abra_Volta]

Now this is the intelligent discussion I was looking for.

Razor: I looked at Still Life and decided against it. It doesn't help the Oath engine. It does help the disruption side. It's 3CC which means Mana Drain would love it.

I thought about Vineyards but in Type 1 there are just too many things that can take advantage of it while I cannot. Yes, it might help to fuel a Creeping Mold but it could more often than not help fuel an opponent's Stroke of Genius. That's something I don't want happening.

I thought about Verdant Touch also but came to the early conclusion that if I need a creature to help the Oath engine then it would be Sleeper Agent. But the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Verdant Touch.

1) Gives opponent a creature for my Oath to work.
2) Gets around that Sacred Ground if the creature-land dies in combat.
3) Can give me additional victory conditions if Treetop isn't there.

It might be suited for the sideboard but i'll have to give it a test.

Zherbus, while I did lose to some decks I had hoped to beat I learned a few things.

Plus, I attribute some of the reasons of my losses to inexperience with the deck. Not that it's the main reason, but i'm sure it didn't help me any.

After playing last weekend with the deck my confidence in it is growing and I feel I can play a better game next time around.

I would say the worst loss was against Keeper as I just didn't any early pressure on him. Plus it didn't help that he was running 3 Diaboic Edicts. Maybe he was running more of an OSE build, don't know for sure.

This is also an untuned and new deck so i'm completely happy to lose a few times. The trick is to watch and see what happens and learn and adapt.

I'll give the deck a few more tournaments and games before deciding if it's worthwhile or destined for the scrap-heap. But I believe it could be a rogue-ish contender.

Oh, and no name has been chosen for it yet.