tips on how to get better?

[Grand Inquisitor]

i know there are a number of highly experienced, war-hardened tourney goers.  this is my plight, see if you can help.

i just got back into playing about 2 months ago.  i've played in eight tournaments since then.  the results have been (out, t2, t4, t2, t2, t2, t2, t8).  some of these were smaller tournaments, so the fact that i'm getting to the finals isn't that huge.  what i do think might be significant is that i'm stuck at t2.

i think my deck is pretty solid (i've come a long way learning how to play it).  my sb reflects my metagame pretty good.  i try to find reasons why i can't break through and win, but i'm not finding anything.

i'm sure alot of this is, i've eventually run into people who had better decks, and just outplayed me.  however, losing in the finals in 63% of the times i've played is kinda wierd.

what do people think are important steps to take in 1) preparing 2) playing for tournaments?

i'm not looking for stuff you'd see on brainburst, i.e. "how to psyche your opponent into stroking himself to death" (or am i?)  and i'd especially like to hear if anyone from hadley crew whose kicked me around has anything to add.

[DigDug]

This isn't from a tourney expert, but from one with some AI experience.  You should be looking for a pattern that correlates to the one you've already identified.  There are two realistic ones that come to mind.  First, what are the decktypes you lose to in the top 8?  Second, are you distracted in any way, i.e. hungry, tired, nervous?  If you notice similarities in about three or four, you probably have a cause-effect relationship.  If all else fails, you could just be unlucky.

[SiCK_Boy]

That would look nice on his tombstone:

"Not his fault. He was just unlucky."

[leviat]

I would attribute this to just being unlucky.

I've noticed that when your playing in a really good solid T1 environment, the game is determined more by whoever draws the first seven good cards. Everything else is pretty much equal; Skill of the players, power of the deck, experience playing.

In our area, we consistently have the same four or five people making the T4, but it's pretty random who will actually win, regardless of what deck they're playing.

[Zherbus]

My personal thoughts are that you generally play decks with great matchups and bad matchups. Despite me thinking you were a youngun (I'm really sorry about that), you really did play near perfectly. I say 'near' prefectly because it was hard to get a grasp on how well you played based on a few games I watched, but it seemed very reasonable as far as play decisions go.

I think that luck has an involvement as well. I think that you could have beaten Chris, but then again I think many people he played should have beaten him. He played well, had a decent deck (minus the manabase), and had a stroke of luck on his side that day.

I know when I start making bad plays, its usually from exhaustion. When I dont sleep well or eat well (or play someone who has a discussion with their cards), I screw up more. All it takes in type 1 is one minor error, and I can explain what *I* did wrong in all the matches my deck didnt crap out on me. I examine those mistake and try to burn them into my head, so it doesn't happen again.

Of course nerves, exhaustion, hunger, annoyance, etc all produce bad plays. From the day I "lost" in Hadley to a match I clearly had in hand, I will never decide against eating all day or go to a tournament that has 5 rounds of Swiss and cuts to a t8 with only 4 hours of sleep.

A note on playtesting: Don't do it too much and don't invest too much playtesting time to apprentice.

Apprentice really warps your sense of game play in the real world. Whether you agree with apprentice being a crappy program, what you draw in real life vs. what you draw on apprentice are two different things.

As far as too much playtesting goes, I personally try not to play more than a few times a week. You really need time for some of this stuff to soak in. In between tournaments, if I have a month or two, I make the extra effort to think about magic as little as possible, sometimes not playing for a few weeks at all. It really helps to absorb everything you do when you do test.

Well, thats what I do and a little nugget of my experience. I hope you see some merit in it.

[Grand Inquisitor]

thanks for all the replies.  i'm sure alot of it is like leviat said that i just ran into a bad matchup and he drew a better 7.  i'm also very interested in zherbus' letting it soak in approach.  does anyone else have a similar school of thought.  also, does

Quote I will never decide against eating all day

mean its ok to eat during a tourney?  i've also heard of food comas.

either way, i'm not trying to go overboard a la t2 players i've heard about.  its just that considering how close i've gotten, i'd like to be the guy walking home with 1st sometime; i think i'm capable.  although, after watching ray (from ct) play, i can definitely see a difference in approaches. he is a lot more sauve in his play, and really knows his deck, even if he doesn't know his opponents.

thanks for the advice and keep it coming

[Zherbus]

Quote mean its ok to eat during a tourney?  i've also heard of food comas.

I have a very restricted diet due to my weight lifting routine, so next time instead of not eating to avoid eating junk, Ill pack a protien bar and scarf it down to level out my blood sugar to concentrate better. I dont see anything wrong with that at all.

As for the 'soaking in' approach, its like this: Say I am a Keeper player who never played Gro. I test against Gro and it'll probably do well. I then think back on the matches that I lost, and really dwell on them. I think about possible mis-plays, key moments, etc. Then I think about the games I stole, and look at the path I took to get there.

Just thinking about what sort of plays you made can make all the difference in the outcome of the next time you play that match up, or with some deep thought you might be forced to try to alter your deck a bit to better handle that matchup.

[Freddie]

This is an excellent thread, for anyone that wants to "Improve" their game.

Non magic ways to play a better game:

1. Make sure that you have gone #1 and #2 before the tournament, ESPECIALLY #2, it will hurt your game if your mind is on that of if you are makiinh stomach or butt noises.... seriously

I know that sounds funny, but I am serious.

2. Make sure that you have ate a meal recently before the tournament, but not a really spicey, or heavy  one.

3. Bring some money along with you to buy a drink, or a snack if you start getting peckish.

-- Those above 3 are really important to me, I have low blood sugar, and thus will lose focus, begin to sweat, shake, and overall lose my edge if I am not careful.

4. Wear comformitible clothes, this is not a fashion show, so wear what you will feel good in.

I have worn a loose t-shirt, Night pants and sandles to a tourney before... and won. Just taking your mind off as much *inconsequential* stuff as possible.

5. Take ONLY your deck, Money, and your DCI card into the event (leave trade stuff in the car) it is really distracting whenever you have to watch your stuff from being stolen, AND play a focussed game.

--------------------------------

Magic related ways to play a better game:
1. Make SURE you count how many cards are in your opponents opening hand, it is pretty easy for someone trying to cheat to draw an extra card.

This 1 card advantage can make the difference between a win and a lose.

If you catch them, call the judge.

This also applies to after Wheel or Timetwist ect...

2. Do NOT look at your cards before rolling or flipping for 1st, you don't want something as stupid or sloppy as that getting you a warning, or all rilled up/ loose your focus.

3. Take your time while shuffleing, even if you arer eager to play, or just had your @$$ handed to you, and are eager to get retribution for the next game. You still need to slow it down, to make sure ithe shuffle is thurough.

I will even table shuffle after using a fetch land, or a tutor, I just don't want to clump up my deck all to hell.

4. Make sure you shuffle your opponents deck EVEN if you trust them, and even if you think it is suffeciently randomized.

If my opponent gets a god draw, and I have NOT shuffeled, I always wonder, if there is more then luck involved in that hand.

5. Pay close attention to were your opponent looks and places his permanents on the playing table, as time goes on, you will be able to read his/ her manerisms.

You will sometimes be able to read what they have in their hand/ what they are planning for the next few turns by the way they are posturing themselves, or by the way they are looking on the board, rearranging their hand, or begining to place something on  the board, then changing their mind.

This is not a guarenteed science, but ALL of us have some sort of tell - tell signs of what we are planning or have in mind, the trick is to cover what you are doing, and try to pick up on what your opponent is doing.

6. Do not get into a hurry when drawing cards, you don't want to see an extra card by accident, or flip one over, or nock over your deck etc... just to avoid your opponents susspicion and over all clumbsiness of the board, and warrnings.

7. Be friendly and over all curtious to your opponent and to the tournament judge/ organizer Begin a stack with just about everything you do, placing the card in the middle of the table, and look for a passing of priority from your opponent, or a responce from them.

This is all that I can think of right now, but there is alot more.

I hope that this helps.

And good luck with your continued improvement.

-Freddie

[Black Explosion]

***"1. Make sure that you have gone #1 and #2 before the tournament, ESPECIALLY #2, it will hurt your game if your mind is on that of if you are makiinh stomach or butt noises.... seriously

I know that sounds funny, but I am serious.***

 (Sounds like SOMEONE had a bad experience...)

Actually Freddie is a great guy to listen to for this stuff...

My two cent$...

Know what is in your graveyard without having to look at it. No matter how you hide it, it screams "Yagmouth's will, regrowth, etc." when you paw through the yard.

Know what is in your opponent's graveyard. As you play more and more, you will know a general card count of certain spells in a stereotypical deck. For example, a good mono blue deck has 4 force of will and 4 counterspells in it. Knowing this, you could look in their graveyard, and do some general arithmatic to determine if the have a counter.

The longer you play, the more information you will have on how to attack certain deck types. For example, when Freddie and I play against each other, me with monoblue and him with keeper, I know I can generally force things onto the board because I run twice the counterspells. You may not know your opponent or the exact cards in their deck, but if they play a first turn mountain, you should start thinking what decks they could be playing, and how to crush them.

Above all.... MAGIC IS A GAME!!! It's supposed to be fun. If you are having fun, you are a winner. (Wow, that's corny) Seriously - when you stop having fun, stop playing. Mana drain is full of experienced players who would love to help ya if you ask!

The end.

[IAmFishMan]

I once wrote a strategy article for Neutral Ground on this topic...check out

http://www.neutralground.net/Forums....ain.asp

hope that helps

 

[pernicious dude]

Quote Know what is in your graveyard without having to look at it. No matter how you hide it, it screams "Yagmouth's will, regrowth, etc." when you paw through the yard.

I habitually put the cards into my graveyard in a cascade,
instead of a stack, so I can see all the card names at all times.
Half an hour into a game, I can't remember what hit the yard turn 3.

It's sometimes useful to telegraph Yawgmoth's Will when you're not holding one.

[Zherbus]

I actually do the reverse - I look at my graveyard as if I were a 13 year old boy looking through a porno mag. I keep track of it all constantly, and I even look to my Sideboard at random to keep people thinking I have a Wish or just to pre-meditate.

[Freddie]

I thought that looking through the SB during a game was a no-no.

I thought it was considered a face down removed from game stack, and those cannot be thumbed threw.

Illegal.

-Freddie

[Zherbus]

Yeah, you cant look at the cards during a game. Nothing stops you from glancing at the pile though. I probably threw you off with he whole pre-meditate thing as Im a visual person and if Im thinking of what I need to look through in my SB, Ill look at the pile.

Just like if Im thinking about turning the TV on, Ill look at the blank screen before doing so, while considering.

[BillTheDuck]

Make sure you think about EVERYTHING before you do it. ALWAYS check your hand and whatever before you let ANY spell resolve. When I make mistakes, its always because I'm on auto pilot. Dont do that.

You seems to always talk about how much practice you need and stuff, but you really don't make that many mistakes.

PS. Sleep is the most important factor in my game. I play a lot better in the summer months and vacation because I'm not on sleep schedual with 6 hours per night.

[The Dude]

Dude here

1) Who the hell is that?
The thing for tourneys I find important above all else, is being comfortable with shock value. For example, my friend Nick wears a sombrero when in a big tourney. He's comfortable with it, so the other person finds him to be fruity or just down rgith funny. Good ice breaker/intimidation factor if you into that. Personally, I wear the uggliest damn sports coat you can think of, and it just fits. I love it and have become so used to wearing it that it's comfortable when the other persopn finds it groteque and shocking. This also could be the sweat pants and sandals Freddy was talking about, the whole "who cares what you think of me" persona. It works.

2) Yum! Plain Flavor!
In the morning, unless you are a vegan/vegetarian, EAT MEAT this is very important to play endurance. This doesn't mean eat a fucking T-bone at 6 in the morning. It means have some sausage eggs, or baccon. Protein is good. So is Oatmeal suprisingly.

3) The Shitter
The shitter is all important to creating a distraction free environment for you. If you have a gass cramp, or have to drop some kids off at the pool, your not going to be focused.

4) Metagame over Playtest
Playtesting is a load. Don't do it. no one does and those who claim to don't do it as much as they think they do. Any given play can be different, although stats are real. Metagaming is more simple and more effective. Look at the deck you expect to see, analyze it, where you beat it, what you weaknesses are. If you become good at this you will be successful at knowing what your opponent is about to do. But please do some playtesting so you get a feel for the match-up. Don't think playtesting is all that matters though.

5) Calmer than you are...
If something comes up call a judge and don't make a scene. As my modo goes "Fuck it" nothing matters as long as you're taking care of your own shit and you have it all together mentally. If someone is annoying tell 'em to can it but do so politly. And enjoy it, it's a game that people often get bent out of shape on. Like was stated earlier, take your time. Don't look rushed unless it's your play style.

good luck, it's on your side

[Skelbo14]

This being my first themanadrain post I'll give a quick intro.  My name is Matt Skelly and I've been seen playing with the boys from Hadley, not all too often though.  

GI:  I feel your pain on this one.  At the Jet tournament I piloted Brian Phelon's Forbidian with some sucess, but I couldn't quite pull through in the clutch.  I lost two matches to the same player (Adam playing BIG aggro) and Brian told me I should have a good match-up against that particular deck.  Seems like I should've won, but we played 5 total games in two different rounds and I only took one of them.  I guess after I left everyone said I should have won, which would've squared me against Ray (the eventual winner) in the semis and then Nether Void in the finals, so who knows.  I understand what you are saying though, about feeling like you should be winning but not really understand why you're not.  Here are some of the things I like to keep in mind on tourney days:

1)  Probably the biggest peice of advice I have is to toss all superstition out the window.  Sure, it might give you confidence sometimes, but if you mess it up at all you feel doomed to lose, and it usually happens.  

2)  Stay loose.  I often get really uptight and deeply into the games and I find that while the concentration is more intense, you often fail to see the big picture of the game.  You try to counter something you shouldn't because you think you have total control over the match and POP out comes choke.  

3) Lastly, figure this out for yourself.  There have been a lot of helpful posts up here, but who knows what works for you.  Some people like eating before the tourney, some prefer to consume while halfway through.  The bottom line is that you need to figure out what works for you.  I don't think I need to point out the obvious to you personally, but I get the feeling that younger players especially will read these posts and think the key to winning a tournament is showing up with a sombrero and a ragged sports coat.  

I have a pretty good feeling you'll end up winning soon.  Best of luck to you... not that it matters!

Skelly

[kl0wn]

Regarding playtesting, something I find even more effective than just repeatedly smashing my deck against a deck that I'm having difficulty beating is to actually play with the deck that I'm having trouble with.

Bad matchup or not, whenever I play against someone who is using a deck that I have played with, I usually win. This is because I have learned the exact weak points to exploit.\n\n

[Dante]

Quote (kl0wn @ Dec. 18 2002,13:11)Regarding playtesting, something I find even more effective than just repeatedly smashing my deck against a deck that I'm having difficulty beating is to actually play with the deck that I'm having trouble with.

Bad matchup or not, whenever I play against someone who is using a deck that I have played with, I usually win. This is because I have learned the exact weak points to exploit.

I second that.  I had a tough time against TnT until I turned it around and playtested TnT.  Once I knew how it worked (from the inside not the outside), I knew better how to attack it.

Dante

[mezzir]

i disagree with the whole get sleep thing...you can run fine on adrenaline for a long ass time
however...with nothing your stomach you're gonna die
i always run for a snack somewhere in the first 3 rounds

my biggest piece of advice, thought it may not go well with everyone's style, is to be really nice and considerate, and stay calm.  this usually means not playing too fast.  just keep your mindset.  i dont care if you have 2 lands in your hand and nothing in play, the opponent doesn't know that you just have those 2 lands.  think about situations that might come up soon, instead of having to think on the fly if you feel pressured to hury.

and my last bit is mostly to the aggro players out there:
my biggest obstacle to overcome when playing aggro vs. anything is overestimation.  whenever i played against mono-u i'd assume they could counter whatever i was holding, always assuming TnT would have some fat or a welder coming up next.  while sometimes it is good to hold a threat until you can force it through or make the board more suitable, then you've become the reactive player.  not only does making the reactive player put you on the defensive, but then you have to overcome the obstacles you face and then launch an offensive

its much easier just to hit them with as many threats as possible as fast as possible most of the time.

and finally to GI, i really would have a hard time blaming anything but luck that you've been coming so close so often...soon enough.
just not january, that one's mine