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Author Topic: GroAtog takes 1st at C&J's Thursday  (Read 2640 times)
Saucemaster
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« on: February 07, 2003, 05:08:16 pm »

Good day to you all, or if you frequent the boards in the manner I do, good very-late-night.
     So we've all been hearing wonderful things about the brand new deck from Germany (where the beer is good and the decks are savage) combining Psychatog and black brokenness with the Gro engine.  Since none of us can decide what best to call it, I'll continue to refer to it by the bland but functional name of GroAtog.
     I decided I'd see if it lived up to the hype, and took it to our weekly Type 1 tournament at C&J's.  I doubted it could be as good as people thought it was, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try it.
     My God, was I wrong.
     This deck downright barbaric.  As you shall soon see, I suck, but fortunately my deck was better than I was, and I swept the four-round tournament with only a single game loss.

Decklist first:

You're at, what, 20, right?  You're dead:
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Psychatog

And here's why:
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
1 Cunning Wish

Let me count the ways...:
2 Merchant Scroll
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Demonic Tutor
R Ancestral Recall

Not so much:
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
2 Daze

Look, I'm playing a combo deck!:
R Fastbond
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Time Walk
R Regrowth
R Berserk

Playing spells is good:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Jet
R Black Lotus
R Library of Alexandria

Just in case I didn't beat you badly enough the first time:
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 1 Emerald Charm
SB: 1 Ebony Charm
SB: 1 Misdirection
SB: 1 Hydroblast (Not BEB!!!  4 out of 5 Dryads prefer Hydroblast, and those are the four I'm playing with.)
SB: 2 Smother
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt (there's usually a Reanimator deck that shows up)
SB: 2 Powder Keg (Submerge just isn't usually good in our metagame, and frankly, I couldn't find anything else.  This is janky, I know)

     Changes I made: I'm testing Drain in place of Counterspell after looking at Emerald Alice (though I realize that Alice does have more colorless mana sinks than I do) and seeing Fishhead set up a nasty Yawgwill with one.  I'm still undecided; I've done broken things with Drain mana, but I've also burned a few times.      I'll post more on this in the EVF GroAtog thread, probably.  I cut Foil because it just makes me twitch every time I look at it.  I'm not saying 1x Foil is bad, just that I can't bring myself to play it.
     I went to two Merchant Scrolls (taking out one Opt for one of them) as a sort of half-assed way to test Smmenen's proposal (he says 3x Merchant Scroll, and after playing it, I'm very tempted to find something to cut for the 3rd--good call).
     Six fetchlands?  This came in handy all night long.  It helps amazingly against Wasteland, and was key in my matches against Keeper.  Right now, I'm sold on it.  I believe I first heard Mon suggesting this?  If so, thanks much Mr. Kotter.
     And finally, I decided to try Berserk maindeck in favor of one of the wishes, as many people have suggested.  That meant keeping Mystical in.  This was wonderful, and I highly recommend that everyone at least try putting the Berserk maindeck.  It set up a lot of ridiculous plays at least a turn faster than Wishing for it would have, and that one turn was key in at least one game.

On to the report:

     Okay, I made a few incredibly stupid mistakes in this tournament, partially due to drinking the night before (I have Wednesdays and Thursdays off), partially due to not eating enough or sleeping enough, and partially b/c I just have really bad days sometimes.  What can I say, I don't claim to be a good player.  I just get lucky sometimes.    With that proviso....
     So it's a fairly strong field tonight, though not as much as last time.  Among the top contenders are Christiaan with Mask, who won it all last week; Minh with Paragon Keeper; Jeff (? I've kinda forgotten your name!  Sorry) with Academy; and Dave (NaClhv) with, as usual, ABM.  A Void deck and a Suicide deck are both floating around somewhere as well, which make me a little nervous--Void in particular.  Fortunately, the god of pairings smiles upon me.

Round 1: Joseph with a sort of Type 1 Balancing Tings.  Lots of saclands, Mongeese, Terravore, etc.  At least, I assume Terravore is in the deck.  I never actually get to see it, because he dies too quickly.  Game one I mull to five, but get a second-turn Ancestral off a first-turn Mystical.  My notes have me Draining a Balancing Act on his third turn, and on my third turn playing YawgWill, Ancestral, Mystical.  Turn four sees Tog, Time Walk.  Turn five Berserk = game.  Mystical, I love you.
     Game two: First turn LoA, third turn Dryad, and shortly thereafter my deck decides that only IT may take turns this game.  I Opt into Walk, take first extra turn; Regrow Walk, Vamp, Gush, take the next turn; then Ancestral, Yawgwill, Walk, Fastbond, Ancestral, and somewhere or another DT for a Berserk on my 9/9 Dryad, who'd hit him once on one of the Walk turns.  I didn't actually need Berserk, but I had the countermagic to protect it and wanted to win with style.
      My first games with this deck, and it has officially made me its bitch.  I'm hooked.

Round 2: Danny, playing G/W madness (praise be to the god of pairings).  Here I'm actually a little bit worried, for the simple reason that as with all Gro I don't deal well with permanents, and the old Chapin Gro builds had a tendency to just suddenly die to the jankiest decks.  I also curse myself for dropping Submerge from the board.  GroAtog, however, proves itself to be much better at dealing with random decks.  In both games, I'm theoretically one turn away from death when I win, but not in the least worried, given my hand.  It was never actually that close.
     Game one I end up with an early Dryad facing down two Elves and a Basking Rootwalla.  I have a hand full of late-drawn countermagic, however, and he's not casting anything, so my Dryad sits there looking pitiful as a 2/2 for a long time.  I finally draw Berserk and end up having to play it on one of his creatures just so I can Misdirect it to pump the Dryad out of Rootwalla range.  However, a few counters later, my Dryad looks significantly better, and at three life I cast Yawgwill, Gush, Gush, Ancestral, Berserk....
     Game two sees another first turn Library!  He plays a few creatures and ends up playing Armadillo Cloak on I believe a Blurred Mongoose (pre-thresh), then getting threshhold.  This isn't good, actually, and he goes up to 36 life by turn 5 or 6ish.  However, I've played two Dryads by this point, and after he taps his two decent creatures (Elves don't count) attacking me down to 5, I Time Walk, Regrow Time Walk, play lots of cantrips, and swing with twice with two suddenly huge Dryads for the win.  

Round 3: Minh with Paragon Keeper.  Ah, finally the really interesting matchup.  At this point I was going to be playing either Keeper, Mask, or ABM.  I was hoping for ABM, since it's weaker against Gro than the other two, but instead I get Keeper, while Mask and ABM face each other.  These were great games, and aside from a few stupid mistakes with Gush in one game, I was actually pretty focused here.  My plan is basically to try to force through as many threats as possible and make him scramble for answers; I know that we'll probably reach a midgame, but if we're both left topdecking, my deck will usually recover much quicker than his, and I can accelerate away from him.  Of course, it IS Keeper, so he could just topdeck Braingeyser at a key moment and I'll be dead, but it's far more likely he'll be topdecking Tundras or Seas while I Opt, Brainstorm, and Gush into a decent hand.
      Game one, this is exactly what happens.  I lead with Delta, which is key--Wasteland proofing is a Good Thing.  I then lay another Delta (six fetchlands is gold!), Brainstorm, and next turn I DT for Ancestral.  We get into a war over my Ancestral in the following turn--he Drains, I Force, he Forces back.  Okay, no Ancestral, but he's used three cards for it.  All is going according to plan.  He drops a Wasteland, and trying to mana-screw me, but my Brainstorm has set me up and I just drop another land next turn, staying at the magical two islands.  We both lay land for a while and after I think my hand has enough gas, I Regrow Ancestral.  He Forces my Ancestral, and I Mis-D, and this time it resolves.  I end up Mysticaling for Gush somewhere along the line, and this is where I make my stupid, stupid mistake; in a moment of total stupidity, I think, "Well, I can tap my Sea and Trop for blue, Gush, replay Sea, and play my Tog--I'm almost positive he has no countermagic!"  So what do I do?  I tap the Sea--just the Sea--and Gush.  I am stupid.  I draw nothing in particular off it, and he resolves Shaman next turn, which will beat me down for something like 5 turns straight.  I try to resolve Fastbond a few turns later with no countermagic, but frankly I'm just trying to draw out counters.  He Drains.  Yes!  He's not drawing enough land, and he hasn't resolved any draw yet, so I'm looking very good.  I get a Dryad out, and he manages to drop the remains of his hand onto the table and Balance.  I slyly Brainstorm the YawgWill I'd been slow-playing back onto the top of my deck, discard my hand, then draw up my Yawgwill.  In case you missed it earlier, at this point I have Fastbond, a Gush, an Ancestral, a Demonic Tutor, a Mystical Tutor, and a Dryad in the yard.  And I draw the Tog from earlier off the Ancestral.  Good game.
     Game two, he plays and resolves first-turn Ancestral.  I lay a Delta (fetchlands, fetchlands, fetchlands) and say go, not happy with this sequence of events.  However, I topdeck my very own Ancestral on turn 2, because I am just that good. Wink  I play it, and it resolves (!).  At this point I realize I am free to go to town.  I draw a Force off my Ancestral and suddenly the game looks good; besides the Force in hand, I have the potential for an early Dryad, which now looks to resolve.  I lay a land, drawn off the Ancestral, and say go.  He plays: Volcanic, Sol Ring, and casts Keg off the Sol Ring.  I think for a while and try to assess the chances of my Dryad going all the way if I Force this Keg; in the end I decide that at the very least, it's worth a shot, and I need to get some pressure on ASAP regardless.  So I Force the Keg... and he cannot counter back.  On my turn I drop Dryad, feeling good.
      He drops the Abyss he's been slowplaying.  Ouch.  Now, I sided in two Naturalize here, so at this point I realize I have two possible paths to victory to watch for; I can either dig up/draw a Naturalize and protect it, or if the cards come just right, I can play a creature and a Tog in one turn in the late-ish game and swing for lethal with a Berserked Tog the next turn.  This second road is definitely the one less traveled (shades of every bad graduation speech ever...), but I resolve to keep an eye out for it in case the cards come up right.  The Dryad dies, I lay a land, and say go.  Two turns later, I think, he tries for a Jet and a Yawgwill, since the Abyss resolved.  As this would pretty much seal the game for me, I kindly use the Drain I'd pulled off the top a couple turns ago and deny him the pleasure.  I find LoA soon after, and hold cards until it's active.  At some point, he resolves a Walk and a Shaman, but I'm not worried.  Because by this point my LoA is active, and I've drawn Berserk and a Dryad with double Force protection.  Suddenly, all I need is a Tog, and my chances are very good of forcing through the win.  The Tog comes soon after, and I lead with Time Walk.  It resolves.  I drop Dryad and Tog, both of which resolve, then take my Walk turn.  After my Dryad hits the yard, he waits until I've resolved Berserk and removed most of my graveyard to try to StP my Tog, but he can't beat 2x Force and suddenly I've pushed straight through the Abyss for the win.  Good games, both of them.

Round 4: David (NaClhv) with ABM, who managed to squeak through a very tight third-game win against Christiaan's Mask in round three.  This is where I start playing like complete shit.  Game one I get an early Dryad, but he gets first turn LoA.  My Dryad gets big fast, and a second one joins her as I try to increase the pressure and give him as few turns as possible to draw an answer off LoA.  This is a tactical mistake on my part, as I should have slowplayed the second Dryad in case of Balance.  He tries for a Scroll Rack to go with his Land Tax, and I Drain it.  I swing and he's at 8, facing two Dryads, one of which alone is lethal now.  He goes for Balance.  I Drain.  He Forces.  I Force.  He Forces back.  Wtf?  Those were some great LoA draws.  He resolves Mystical Enforcer w/ threshhold soon after and suddenly I'm the one on the clock.  I can't recover fast enough and it's off to game two.
      Game Two sees me play Sea and Vamp at the end of NaClhv's first turn.  He resolves Scroll Rack, but has no Land Tax to go with it.  I Ancestral, then Regrow it next turn.  He tries to drop Meddling Mage, which I Force.  I resolve a Dryad, she gets big in a hurry, and end up taking a monster YawgWill turn.  This is where I am stupid.  I have a Lotus out, unused, and a Drain in hand at the end of my Yawgwill turn, and NaClhv has one turn to live.  He plays Zuran Orb, Balance, and sacs all his land.  I, being an idiot, say, "Holy shit!" and scoop up my cards.  And then I see that I'm scooping up Lotus.  Someone comments, "why is Lotus going to the graveyard," and I'm wondering the same thing.  We think over it, and I realize that I had not in fact used the Lotus during the Yawgwill turn.  Which means that I can Drain.  However, I have already put everything in the graveyard.  I'm kicking myself, and I tell Dave that I'll abide by his decision here.  I fully deserve to lose, but I should have won.  
     He says, "Odd or even?" and rolls the dice.  I say odd.  The dice rolls off the table and lands on my leg--before Dave sees it, he says reroll.  I heave a sigh of relief; that was a six on my leg there.  I stick with odd and we reroll.
 
The Number Three is now my hero.

     On to game three.  This game goes the way they're supposed to.  I resolve an Ancestral by turn three again (not hard--counting the Ancestral itself I have six ways to get and cast it by turn three).  He has an active Tax, but I Force a Scroll Rack, Drain a Scroll Rack, drop an early Dryad, get it big real quick, and the Meddling Mage naming Gush is forced to chump the Dryad.  I then go crazy with Gushes and set up an unbeatable hand, and swing for the win.  At some point I believe  I Drained a Whirpool Warrior (he'd taxed for a bit and at that point it was basically a one-sided Draw 7).  Life was good.
      We play a few more games afterward and confirm that if I don't actually play like a complete ass, this is not at all a good matchup for ABM.  I start playing significantly better now that there's no compelling reason to.  Joy.

And that's the story of how I won, even though I suck.

Serious props to NaClhv for being a true gentleman and a great sport throughout--particularly in game two--and of course to Roland Bode for an absurdly good deck.  Slops to me, of course, for the bad play in the finals.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2003, 05:23:50 pm »

Excellent report, and well detailed too.

Quote
Quote Okay, I made a few incredibly stupid mistakes in this tournament, partially due to drinking the night before (I have Wednesdays and Thursdays off), partially due to not eating enough or sleeping enough, and partially b/c I just have really bad days sometimes.  What can I say, I don't claim to be a good player.  I just get lucky sometimes.    With that proviso....

It's okay, Gro-a-Tog is an extremely forgiving deck.

The Keeper match was kinda weird, I ask everyone to play spot the play errors and see if they matchup with mine.

Quote
Quote I try to resolve Fastbond a few turns later with no countermagic, but frankly I'm just trying to draw out counters.  He Drains.  Yes!  

He should not have done that, Fastbond is nice but far from broken in that situation.

Quote
Quote Game two, he plays and resolves first-turn Ancestral.  I lay a Delta (fetchlands, fetchlands, fetchlands) and say go, not happy with this sequence of events.  However, I topdeck my very own Ancestral on turn 2, because I am just that good. Wink  I play it, and it resolves (!).  

There is another glaring error. Who Ancestrals against a deck  like Gro-a-Tog without some counterbackup? Sure he resolved it, but damn.

Also, what did he side in? I saw no mention of REB unless I missed something. REB is just something to put Keeper on the level with Gro-a-Tog and I am suprised not to see any.
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2003, 05:55:49 pm »

Quote
Quote Excellent report, and well detailed too.

Thanks much.

Quote
Quote
I try to resolve Fastbond a few turns later with no countermagic, but frankly I'm just trying to draw out counters.  He Drains.  Yes!  


He should not have done that, Fastbond is nice but far from broken in that situation.

I completely agree--that was the source of my "Yes!" exclamation, actually.  Fastbond without the YawgWill is still good, but were I him I'd save my counter for either the Gush or, of course, the Yawgwill.

Quote
Quote
There is another glaring error. Who Ancestrals against a deck  like Gro-a-Tog without some counterbackup? Sure he resolved it, but damn.

I think he just hadn't played much against Gro before.  This was, I believe, only the second time I've seen Minh at C&J's; I have no idea how long he's been playing Keeper or how good he is with it typically, but I get the impression that he was unfamiliar with this matchup.  I wouldn't expect to do this well against an experienced Keeper player, definitely.  I was incredibly surprised when my Ancestral resolved the very next turn--I was sure that he must have counterbackup.  I'm assuming that he had Keg, Abyss, and Ancestral in his opening hand, and decided that it was worth the risk.  I'm guessing he was playing Ancestral to draw counters in hopes of resolving his Abyss?  If so, I'm assuming he hadn't looked at the SB listings for GroAtog.  Game one that might actually be an okay play, though still not optimal, but game 2 it makes alot less sense.  Regardless, playing it *first turn* when I've got 4 Mis-D in the deck (game 2) is very dangerous.

Quote
Quote
Also, what did he side in? I saw no mention of REB unless I missed something. REB is just something to put Keeper on the level with Gro-a-Tog and I am suprised not to see any.

I'm assuming he sided in REB--I watched him side in about five cards, if I remember correctly.  I didn't, however, see any.  Neither did I see any of the three Duresses I sided in, but I know I was constantly fearing REB and it never came up.  Lucky for me, I guess.  

In general, I think the Keeper vs. GroAtog matchup must be pretty tight if both players are good.  GroAtog has alot of game here, but Keeper, of course, is Keeper, and as you mentioned, post-board it gets better for the Keeper player.
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Fishhead
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2003, 07:08:11 pm »

Quote
Quote This was, I believe, only the second time I've seen Minh at C&J's; I have no idea how long he's been playing Keeper or how good he is with it typically...

I watched Minh play part of a match last week and he seemed pretty solid.  (Also, since he is playing pure Paragon Keeper, its a shoe-in that he visits these boards.  Something to keep in mind since we are so boldly discussing his playskill.  Wink  

Quote
Quote There is another glaring error. Who Ancestrals against a deck  like Gro-a-Tog without some counterbackup? Sure he resolved it, but damn.

I wouldnt do it, but the GroTog does only play 3 Mis-D as opposed to 4.  Ooops, I did the math and its worse than I thought; even 3 Mis-D is still a 30% chance of having one in the first 7.  Nevermind.  

Quote
Quote I decided I'd see if it lived up to the hype, and took it to our weekly Type 1 tournament at C&J's.  

Did not your whuppin' two weeks ago at GroTogs hand teach you the power?  Wink  What's interesting to me is that GroTogs combined tournament record is 16-0 games.  We'll just ignore me losing to Promodoi's Keeper in fun games and claim that the deck is INVINCIBLE!!  Lol.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2003, 07:20:17 pm »

Quote
Quote In general, I think the Keeper vs. GroAtog matchup must be pretty tight if both players are good.  GroAtog has alot of game here, but Keeper, of course, is Keeper, and as you mentioned, post-board it gets better for the Keeper player.

For sure, it should be easiest for Gro-a-Tog game 1, then game 2 and 3 are real battles as Keeper can sideboard in quite a boatload. I both dread and look forward to playing this matchup on either side of the table.

Quote
Quote I watched Minh play part of a match last week and he seemed pretty solid.  (Also, since he is playing pure Paragon Keeper, its a shoe-in that he visits these boards.  Something to keep in mind since we are so boldly discussing his playskill.  Wink  

Well he could read StarCity too. Also, if he visits, maybe he can tell us he was hung over or just unfamiliar with the matchup. If someone pointed out my errors, I would personally be grateful if I couldn't justify them. Ego's only get in the way of improvement.

Quote
Quote I wouldnt do it, but the GroTog does only play 3 Mis-D as opposed to 4.  Ooops, I did the math and its worse than I thought; even 3 Mis-D is still a 30% chance of having one in the first 7.  Nevermind.  

Also, standard ribbeck gro-a-tog runs 3 Misdirection AND a Divert. It can go up to 4 post-SB (this was the game in question - game 2) I know its first turn and all, but it does hold some relevancy for early game.

Quote
Quote Did not your whuppin' two weeks ago at GroTogs hand teach you the power?  Wink  What's interesting to me is that GroTogs combined tournament record is 16-0 games.  We'll just ignore me losing to Promodoi's Keeper in fun games and claim that the deck is INVINCIBLE!!  Lol.

I think you will see this trend for at least another month before people start worrying more about it.
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2003, 07:40:57 pm »

Quote
Quote I watched Minh play part of a match last week and he seemed pretty solid.  (Also, since he is playing pure Paragon Keeper, its a shoe-in that he visits these boards.  Something to keep in mind since we are so boldly discussing his playskill.  Wink  

I'm sure he visits the boards, actually--he mentioned that he was waiting for the application process to open up again, and wanted to get an account.  Hopefully I didn't make it sound like he was a bad player, as that's certainly not what I meant to say!  Basically, it seemed like he was a solid player who was just unfamiliar with the Gro matchup.  The other matches in which I've seen him play were quite good.

Quote
Quote I wouldnt do it, but the GroTog does only play 3 Mis-D as opposed to 4.  Ooops, I did the math and its worse than I thought; even 3 Mis-D is still a 30% chance of having one in the first 7.  Nevermind.  

Plus, this was game 2--I sided in the last Mis-D.  It's closer to like 39ish percent, I think?  Not to mention the possibility that it'll just be flat-out countered (FoW).  I think that as a strictly risk vs. reward decision, it's not advisable unless you know you can protect it.


Quote
Quote Did not your whuppin' two weeks ago at GroTogs hand teach you the power?  Wink  What's interesting to me is that GroTogs combined tournament record is 16-0 games.  We'll just ignore me losing to Promodoi's Keeper in fun games and claim that the deck is INVINCIBLE!!  Lol.

For GroAtog's be the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory Forever, Amen.  Of course, I was playing ReapLace, so I just checked that in the "nightmare matchup" category and moved on. Smile

Unfortunately, it's 16-1 in games.  NaClhv won game 1 with ABM after I overextended into Balance.  So we'll just claim a 94% win ratio against the field.  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2003, 08:49:19 pm »

Congrats. I'm pretty sure the guy Armadillo Cloaked something else than Blurred Mongoose though, for obvious reasons - maybe it was a Rootwalla?

--
Chris
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j_orlove
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2003, 09:22:23 pm »

It sounds like the "mongoose" had threshold, though, so maybe it was a werebear?
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Saucemaster
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2003, 09:43:23 pm »

Quote
Quote  I'm pretty sure the guy Armadillo Cloaked something else than Blurred Mongoose though, for obvious reasons

Yeah, I double-checked my notes and it says the Mongoose was cloaked.  Either I just overlooked that during the game or (more likely) I just can't read my own sloppy notes.  Wink  I think it may be Wild Mongrel that he Cloaked?  Note to self: take better notes.

It may have been Werebear, it may have been Mongrel, or I may have just overlooked this.  I do remember him playing with madness creatures as well as threshhold creatures.
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theorigamist
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2003, 10:46:38 pm »

So there was a kid there playing a threshold creature deck with Armadillo Cloak and nobody wonders how he makes play mistakes like Cloaking a Mongoose?  He probably just figured it was immune to your spells and not his, or he wasn't paying attention.  And since you said nothing, he figured it was fine.
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leviat
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2003, 03:14:45 am »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote Did not your whuppin' two weeks ago at GroTogs hand teach you the power?  Wink  What's interesting to me is that GroTogs combined tournament record is 16-0 games.  We'll just ignore me losing to Promodoi's Keeper in fun games and claim that the deck is INVINCIBLE!!  Lol.
I think you will see this trend for at least another month before people start worrying more about it.

I just won the Fat Cat tourny today with it, actually Carl and I just split first. This deck is nice. My total game record was 10-2. I lost one game to a bad goblin deck because I kept a no land hand, and the other loss was to Mask.

FYI: Bryce (aka kl0wn) did a lot of testing with the Mask matchup, it's strange but it seems that whoever goes first, typically would win.
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2003, 12:45:04 pm »

Quote
Quote FYI: Bryce (aka kl0wn) did a lot of testing with the Mask matchup, it's strange but it seems that whoever goes first, typically would win.

This actually makes alot of sense to me.  Both decks try to gain a tempo advantage and then abuse the hell out of it, but in this matchup Gro's the control deck, and Mask has the tempo by default.  And they're pursuing asymmetrical ends; while both want to beat you down with very large beasts, Gro does so by stabilizing the early game (giving away some tempo in the process, barring one of those absurd 9/9 Dryad by turn 3 hands) with free counters until it can drop Dryad and go nuts.  As opposed to Mask, which typically just goes for the throat.  So the extra 1/2 turn is a big bonus for whichever deck goes first--For Mask, I'd imagine it's often the extra edge that you need to take advantage of your inherent tempo advantage in the early game, while for Gro, having an extra 1/2-turn worth of tempo to give away in the early game (before you reap it back in spades) is golden.

Hopefully our resident Mask player will at least bring the deck this week, even if he doesn't play it in the tournament--I'm very interested in this matchup (Christiaan, if you're reading this...).
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Fishhead
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2003, 04:28:31 pm »

Quote
Quote Hopefully our resident Mask player will at least bring the deck this week, even if he doesn't play it in the tournament--I'm very interested in this matchup (Christiaan, if you're reading this...).

Be careful what you wish for.  Theres a possibility that 3 Mask decks could show up next week.  :-O
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Saucemaster
Guest
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2003, 09:08:45 pm »

Are you threatening me?  Don't make me bring Dragon and cheese everyone!  
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Fishhead
Guest
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2003, 01:22:42 am »

Quote
Quote Are you threatening me?  Don't make me bring Dragon and cheese everyone!  

I see the metagame shifting before my very eyes.  Wink
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NaClhv
Guest
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2003, 05:01:09 am »

Okay, that does it.  I'm packing 4 swords and 4 edicts in my ABM maindeck.  =)
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