T1(.5) Newbie has some questions...

[Anonymous]

Hi all.
First, I want to say that I'm German, so I apologize for my English (P.I.S.A. excuses me .
I'm reading the primers and forums for 1 month now, and it's really the best source for T1. Thanks to Zherbus for running this great site.
I'm quite new to Magic, I am playing for 5 months now. I don't really like T2, but I love T1 and T1.5. At the moment, I am playing just for fun, but I want to get better. I have a few questions:

1. There are many playable Decks in T1.... Keeper, TnT, Sligh, Stompy, Parfait, White Weenie, Black Sui, Nether Void, Bazaar, Worldgorgerdragon.dec.... How good are these Decks? As far as I know, TnT and Keeper are the best. Unfortunately, I'm not powered and I don't have the money for P9, 4 Mana Drain etc. At the moment, I'm trying to build a Stompy. Can Stompy do anything in T1 or is it Tier 5 or less?

2. What about Stompy in T1.5?

Thank you very much

Yeti

[Zherbus]

Stompy in type 1 is quit viable. It is pretty focused in its approach, but is fast enough to kill control before it stabilizes. Also, it is generally accepted that this does well against both Sligh and Suicide.

Its weakness really lies in that since its so one dimensional, it clearly lacks a late game. It has no removal (save Lyrist and Pump) to get rid of problem permanents and generally has no way of springing back from the dead.

As for stompy in 1.5, I cant see this quite consistantly outrunning 2 popular decks: Oath and Trix, but I wouldnt say its a dead archtype either.

[Puschkin]

All the three mono-colour-aggro decks, Stompy, Sligh and Suicide Black, can win their fair share of games. Sui is probably the best out of these three but also somewhat expensive, it just isn´t the original Sui anymore.
Sligh is always dangerous although a patient opponent that knows what he is doing can handle it. However, there are always games where you just lose to Sligh, no matter what.
Stompy - here my experience is limited to extended play. But according to fellows Stompy is a nightmare for Keeper and mono-blue, at least pre-sideboard.

These tree decks are always a good intro to Type I, but, since almost everyone plays these when new to Type I this becomes kinda boring and predictable.

You could also try out Fish (check out the "Gay Fish" threads in the Type I Mill, ... er, "section"). Deck Parfait is compareably cheap although Mox Pearl, Lotus and Moat increase performance significantly. But it´s probably the cheapest control deck you could play, except for powerless and Drain-less mono-blue of course. Finally you can go back to the roots and play R/G beats in either of the many incarnations, there should be many builds in the Type I forum. Remember here that you have much room for innovation and a broad range of viable spells in R/G, don´t get fooled by the fact that most decklists here look similar.

For Type 1.5 I cannot speak since it´s even less played than Type I. I assume mono-coloured aggro dominates and therefore some of the less complex combo decks are out, control is not that hot. Stompy should fare well but don´t quote me on that.

Von woher kommst Du denn? Nicht zufällig aus dem Raum Hamburg? Jaja, die Welt ist doch eher klein! Viel Spaß beim posten hier.

Edit: some typos. And Zherbus was faster ...\n\n

[Anonymous]

Thank you. So now, this is the Stompy I want to build:
I dont know anything about the metagame, but I want to start "more competitive" playing at a small local store. There is a T1 tourney every two weeks. As far as I know, it's absolutely unpowered and it's very likely that more than 40% of the participants will be "scrubs". So I don't need a Sideboard which is built against Keeper and Tubbies  .

Creatures

4 Rogue Elephant
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Druid Lyrist
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skyshroud Elite

Tricks

4 Winter Orb ( I think this one is REALLY BIG! It's perfect against everything that cannot counter! )

Pump

4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt

Mana

4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
10 Forest
2 free slots

Sideboard

4 Mtenda Lion (boarded in for Ogre against Sligh)
4 Rushwood Legate (boarded in for Elite against MonoU)
7 free slots

Could you help me?

@Puschkin: Nein, ich komme aus Höchstadt, ein kleines Kaff ca. 50km von Nürnberg.

Yeti

[Schmakt]

Null Rod is common in Stompy (either main deck or sideboard).  Also, check out some of the "Hidden" enchantments from Urza's block.  You say that your opponents are generally unpowered, but does that mean that they don't have duals either?  Hidden Gibbons is probably a good idea either way, and if there are a bunch of duals running around, try Hidden Herd as well.

That's all I can think of at the moment... hope that helps at least a little.

[Puschkin]

So, if you won´t face Keeper and powered mono-blue, you will face more aggro I suppose. In that spotlight I don´t think the Ghazbans make the cut! Scrubby environments always contain lots of burn you know.

Also stay away from Pouncing Jaguar, especially while running Winter Orbs!

To replace these ... hm, let´s see. Some decks make use of River Boa. Sure, it´s one mana up the curve, but that also means it won´t be hit by a Keg for 1. It can also help vs. the various creature decks you will face. Then there is Skyshroud Ridgeback, which isn´t great but almost solid. Hidden Gibbons is kinda gamble but I found them worthwhile, show me one deck without instants! Finally Vine Dryad may be useful if facing more green decks than usual which could be the case in unpowered environments.

The two open mainboard slots could be more pump (Briar Shield for example), more critters (see above) or Null Rods - but these are probably not needed. I would use them for experimental issues, though. For example Black Vise. I was told that it wouldn´t make the cut but nobody ever tried it and having a colourless damagesource that isn´t depending on attacking doesn´t sound bad to me.

Sideboard: This is tough, not knowing what you might see! The aforemenioned Null Rods may find a place here, SPectral Bears against black weenies? (not sure here, at least they block Knights and Zombies to death which are played in lesser Suicide builds). Maybe additional enchantment removal. I always preferred Tranquil Domain over Emerald Charm for the sideboard.

[Abra_Volta]

Since we don't know what cards you have it's tough to suggest a deck. Presonally, if your metagame is as you describe (none to low power, scrub decks, bad aggro, etc..) then I can think of nothing but Oath.

Oath loves bad aggro. If you have just the minimum (4 Oaths, Morphling, Spike Weaver, Spike Feeder, 2 Gaea's Blessing) I would suggest giving that a try.

It's one of the easiest decks I know to build from a no power standpoint and slowly power it up.

[Anonymous]

@Abra: Unfortunately, I do not have "just the minimum". I want to try Stompy. It's cheap and it should be playable. As I told you, I do not know much about the metagame. Keep in mind, it's a nonsanctioned small shop tourney. A boy I know told me some things about it, but I don't know how far I can belive this. He says he won 13 of 17 of these competitions. IF this is true, I will definitely win. Why? This guy (the one who says he won so much) runs a 5-colored Elf-Griffin-Dragon Deck with all Invasion Dragon Legends, Crystal Quarry, Urza's Incubator and Rath's Edge. I beat that "Deck" with a 10-minute-made Deck, built with a bunch of blue commons I once bought at ebay. So if it's true what he says, this competition is not quite competitive (  ) and it won't be much fun playing there with a good deck... But you know, many people say things just because they want to be cool or something... so now, I want to build a Stompy and look what it can do. If I win a couple of times, then I will buy a Morphling and Oaths and build an Oath Deck, or I will go for a Parfait (I fell in love with this Deck right after I saw it the first time  ). Now, I think I've bored you enough. I would like to play Stompy, and I hope you have a few more suggestions for me.

Thanks

Yeti

[Anonymous]

Sorry for double-posting, but I cannot edit my last post since I'm not registered. I like the Oath Idea, too, but even if it is a cheap T1 deck, it will cost some money, no? 3-,4-, or 5-Color Oath are too expensive for me, because this would require 8+ Dualz and I dont have the money for that right now, which leaves UG Oath. So, let's see: What do I need for UG Oath?

4 Oath of Druids : ?? $
1 Morphling       : min. 20$
4 Tropical Island : together min. 40$
...

So, that will be at least 150 bucks altogether... and THIS is the reason Stompy and not Oath will be my first real T1 Deck   .

Yeti

[iceman]

Yeti, about a year and a half ago, I found myself in the same situation as you are right now - not much $ for magic, knowledgable but not an expert on type 1. Then my salvation caqme in the form of a lackey sligh deck. It was cheap but effective. In my first tourney i got 2nd place - $75! Enough for cursed scrolls, and the more I played, the more I won, the better cards I got.  And just a week or two ago, I realized that now when I designed a deck, I had all but 3 or 4 cards for it - that was such a good feeling  . So I think by making a stompy deck, or another cheap, but effective type 1 deck, you will start a great platform for the rest of your magic career.

 

[xrobx]

icemans idea / situation looked like it was pretty solid for him, so first, i'd probably say; yea run sligh!  but its up to you man.  lets see if i help at all....i'll try my best to analyze this for you, but don't quote me on everything, i could make mistakes as i don't know WHAT your up against (i'll assume its like mainly aggro and counter-morphling, and whatnot...probably no solid combo decks??)

Creatures
4 Rogue Elephant - ok

-4 Ghazban Ogre
+4 river boa (they EAT blue, and blue control could be a weak matchup for you)

-4 Druid Lyrist
+4 naturalize (dependent on metagame!!)

-4 Pouncing Jaguar
+4 whirling dervish (if theres solid black)
OR
-4 Pouncing Jaguar
+4 Jorael's Centaur/Elvish Archer


-4 Quirion Ranger
+4 Llanowar Elves

-4 Skyshroud Elite
+4 Blastoderm

Tricks

4 Winter Orb ( I think this one is REALLY BIG! It's perfect
against everything that cannot counter! )
 - OK BECAUSE OF VINEYARD

Pump

4 Rancor - OK
-4 Giant Growth
+4 Argothian Worm
-4 Bounty of the Hunt
+4 eladamri's vineyard

Mana
+1 Crop Rotation
4-1 = 3 Land Grant
-4 Elvish Spirit Guide
+4 Treetop Village (oh how i love vineyard...)
10 Forest

-2 free slots
+2 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard

-4 Mtenda Lion (boarded in for Ogre against Sligh) (MAIN BOARD THEM IF ANYTHING, IF YOU MAINBOARD THEM THEN SIDEBOARD 4 DEFENSE GRIDS)

??4 Rushwood Legate (boarded in for Elite against MonoU)
7 free slots

although i'm not familiar with rushwoods, i would obviously focus on what colors most people play.  lets examine each...

BLACK
definatly 4x whirling dervish, Masticore (goes well with vineyard)???

BLUE
Seedtime?  Defense Grid?  

RED
Zuran Orb??  Cursed Scroll??  Masticore (vineyard anyone)?

WHITE
well, they are gonna plow 4 of your fatties, and probably try to get rancor out of the way at the same time.  if you run blastoderms you should be able to force damage in, and the naturalizes will take care of annoying moats.  i dont know about you, but i've NEVER had troubles against white.  they'll either try to rush the hell out of you with savanah lions and pro-black things, or take hours to kill you with parfait.  control to the max, c.o.p. green could hurt, but again, you have naturalize.  maybe side in more enchantment destruction?? elvish/druid lyrist??

GREEN
haha, have fun here.  anything goes really.  just make sure yours are bigger and faster.

[j_orlove]

Don't make xrobx's changes, please.

I wouldn't play expensive creatures/cards (ie cc > 1) in stompy unless your metagame is really, really bad. One set of river boas is okay, and the winter orbs are fine, but other than that, you really want everything to be 1cc (or free). Otherwise, you have to play a bad mana base (like the one above   ), and you lose the speed the deck needs to win.

For the 2 extra slots, try a couple river boas (possibly cut a few cards to go up to 4x boa). It islandwalks and regenerates, plus it's 2/1 for only 1G. It is easily the best green two-drop (outside a sliver deck).

The aforementioned hidden herd and gibbons are also strong.

In the SB, you could try Naturalize, emerald charm, or tranquil domain. All of these help against problem cards (like masticore, The Abyss, etc.).

However, it would help if you gave us a general idea of your metagame--it doesn't have to be specific, but if you could let us know if many people have power/duals/rares etc., that would help us help you.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your ideas.
@j_orlove: I like your ideas, but I will have to think about that because if I build the Deck like you posted it, it somehow wouldn't be Stompy anymore.
I will tell you how good the deck was after the next T1 event... and if i forget to, you will read about me winning Dülmen with my Stompy   !

Yeti

[xrobx]

meh..goodluck with it.
if anyone didnt catch on, the reason the blastoderms and other high cc things are there (even treetops) are cuz the the combo with the winter orb and vineyard.  he wanted winter orb and its much stronger if you run 1cc vineyards, and often burns your opponent.

whatever.

goodluck!

[Anonymous]

First, I have to correct one thing:

"@j_orlove: I like your ideas, but I will have to think about that because if I build the Deck like you posted it, it somehow wouldn't be Stompy anymore."

should have been

"@xrobx: I like your ideas, but I will have to think about that because if I build the Deck like you posted it, it somehow wouldn't be Stompy anymore."

Second, I don't think the combo Orb-Vineyard is as strong... well, I could be wrong. Against Sligh, I could imagine it's quite good. But look at this. Opponent has 1 Mox Sapphire and 1 Island on the table, I have the Vineyard. Now, on his third turn, he untaps Mox and Island, plays another Island and Morphling! That wouldnt be really good for me!

Yeti

[iceman]

xrobx, while your idea looks fun. It is more of a combo deck than a stompy, and there are only a handful of combo decks that can cut it at tourneys (although the ones that can are very powerful, trix, dragon.dec, etc...) and I'm sorry to say that while its a fun deck, it won't go at most competitive tourneys.


 

[Anonymous]

Whatever you do play 4 Maindeck Hidden Gibbons.

[shagrat]

Quote 4 Winter Orb ( I think this one is REALLY BIG! It's perfect against everything that cannot counter! )

I've found that it's not that great if your environment is powered (Moxen).