A Beautiful Sligh..Welcome to my Metagame

[Anonymous]

I don't quite have an account yet ,but I still want to keep my Vintage Info up to date. My metagame where I currently play is all screwed up...Crazy Card and Comics is home to the most diverse array of decks I've ever seen.  Currently ABM is winning and Breakfast seems to do well.  My deck is goblin sligh...called Pile Sligh on other Mana Drain forums.  I do well untill I get to top 4.. I just need help figuring out cards to impliment into my current deck that will help me beat these two troublesome decks while still keeping me in the game against the usual run of the mill decks..I dont have time to post my decklist right now but any tips on things to slow down ABM or Breakfast would be great..I'll post the list tommorrow. Thanks in advance!!!

[Anonymous]

I know its bad to post back to back ,but I promised my deck list so here it is....
-Pile Sligh-

-Land-
16 XMountains
2 XBloodstaind Mire

-Creatures-
Mogg Fanatic X4
Goblin Lackey X4
Grim Lavamancer X4
Goblin Piledriver X4
Ball Lightning X4
Mogg Flunkies X2

-Spells-
Fireblast X4
Lightning Bolt X4
Incinerate X2
Chain Lightning X2
Price of Progress X2
Wheel of Fortune X1
Fork X1

-Artifact_
Cursed Scroll X4

-Sideboard-
Price of Progress X2
Pyroblast X3
Powder Keg X2
Tormads Crypt X2
Flaring Pain X2
Disk X2
Anarchy X1
Overload X1

Theres the deck...sooo please somebody respond and help me out with whatever..deck..sideboard..or anything to help with beating ABM or Breakfast..Thanx in advance!!!!

[Skeeter974]

hmmm
-1 cursed scroll
-2 grim lavamancer
-1 piledriver

+4 goblin mutant  these are key in lackey sligh decks

as for the SB
Powder keg isnt looking good. too much of your own stuff is 1-2 cc and is most likely to get blown up by the keg..

         

[GnomesofZurich]

I would say that Goblin Piledriver has become more important than Goblin Mutant in Lackey Sligh; it can be just as big, and can be realistically cast, something which you can't do with the Mutant, especially with only 18 land in the deck.

This deck could go a couple directions:
1) More speed focused, in which case I would suggest cutting the Grim Lavamancers/Cursed Scrolls, and possibly Ball Lightning (unless there are few/no Mana Drains in your metagame), and go up to 4 each of Chain Lightning, Incinerate, possibly some Reckless Charge, 3-4 Flunkies, possibly Cadets (and btw, why are you not running Jackal Pups?  It can't be b/c they aren't goblins, since you were running Lavamancer and Ball Lightning).

2) More controlling, which the Lavamancers/Scrolls would contribute to.  Of course, here you would want to run a full compliment of Strips/Wastelands, Gorilla Shamans (unless completely unpowered metagame), and possibly something like Ankh of Mishra, which has been discussed recently in the Type 1 forums.

I think you need to pick a direction for your deck.  18 lands isn't enough to consistently have 3 mana to cast Ball Lightning/activate Cursed Scroll.  Go one way or another.  

And Merry Christmas!  

[Anonymous]

Thanx for your input.....and heres my response..Powder Keg is against Super-Gro which beats me everytime...its also good used as a 0 buster.....I dont like jakal pup in my version of sligh mainly because im still trying to metagame my deck..The reason my deck is half control and half aggro is because it works better against all the decks I play.All aggro or all control will lose to certain decks while the mix beats almost any deck even supposed anti-sligh decks...Mana drain is in my enviornment by the way,and I would run browbeat over balls but misdirection is also around. I still like the idea of having more goblins for the driver and lackey but lavamancer is just too good.Thanks for the input...and please let me know what you all think!! Thanks in advance!!!

[Malus]

18 lands should be plenty to activate the scroll.  By the time you use scroll, your hand should be low on cards and a few lands would already be in play.  You'll probably only need four or five lands at the most by that point.

[dandan]

Ok, you have decided to play Lackey Sligh. This means that you are attempting to win before your opponents can get going. Both ABM and Breakfast can devastate you if they get going and they are not even fast by control/combo standards.

Do why is your fast deck nor fast enough?

Because you insist on using control cards.

Cursed Scroll will never be more than a 4 mana Shock by turn 4 when you should be aiming to win. Pyromancer does 1 damage when attacking and occasionally 2 when you spend some mana. You only have 2 fetchlands when the 1 damage is completely irrelevant to you. You spurn the chance to cast creatures with a power of 2 for 1 mana.

Cut the control cards, add more Chain Lightnings, Incinerates, Goblins, consider Goblin Grenade. I've seen Mutants used although I am not sold on them. I'm not convinced about Ball Lightning but if it works then fine. Even in Lackey Sligh, I'd be very surprised if Pups are not golden.

If you want to keep the control cards then you should have more lands so you can use the Scrolls, you need Shamens for random artifacts like Zuran Orb and Moxen and frankly Pup and Cadets are standard creatures in Sligh for a reason. 4 Wasteland and 1 Stripmine should be added which means ditching the Ball Lightnings (yippee!).

[Anonymous]

Pile Sligh finally came through.........I was able to beat odds and get 8th at Crazy-Con.. Mostly thanks to Dante..Thanks to Dante again and burn on....
By the way any time ya'll want to give me an account...... Ill post the final unpowered decklist later..

[Anonymous]

I'm sure what you really meant to say that Reanimator really came through and that your jealously is overwhelming.

No, but seriously, kudos to being one of two players to Top 8 at CrazyCon with an unpowered deck. As far as your deck goes, your maindeck is always adapting, which is fine, and you don't screw it up as you manage to make Top 4 all the time at Crazy's. But your maindeck isn't the biggest problem. It's your sideboard. You really should look for these cards you know you're missing and you know you would run i.e. Blood Moon and maybe Scald. Definitely something  more efficient that Overload, like the Rack and Ruin or even Mox Monkies. To play a Suicide Red deck unprepared for the decks you expect is just plain suicide.

Thank you for thanking me ahead of time for the Jester's Cap I'm going to give you.

Peace, fattie!

[Rebel428]

The following cards in your deck are absolute GARBAGE in Goblin Sligh (and, for some, just plain suck in general):

Ball Lightning - This card has been deemed as crappy for a VERY long time now.  You want consistent damage sources, not a one-shot burn spell that can't target creatures and is also a massive Mana Drain target.

Grim Lavamancer - He does nothing to help you.  The objective of a Goblin Sligh deck is to win as quickly as possible.  Lavamancer is a slow, more controllish card.  He does not belong in Goblin Sligh.

Fireblast - Not bad, but strictly inferior to Goblin Grenade in a deck like this (especially since you have a much lower land count than a standard Sligh deck).

Wheel of Fortune - Other decks are MUCH able to abuse this than you can.  Psychatog-based decks and combo decks will crush you in the face before you get any advantage from this card.

Cursed Scroll - too slow for Goblin Sligh.  Good in a standard/Ankh Sligh deck, but not here.

Here is my Goblin Sligh deck (pretty much exactly the same as Legend's; for a more detailed and thorough analysis of the deck, read the bottom half of this).  You have a very good shot at a 3rd turn win if you play a first-turn Lackey.  All of the creatures are Goblins to make for MUCH larger Piledriver attacks.  It also omits the junk I explained earlier.

4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Flunkies
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Raging Goblin
4 Goblin Lackey

4 Reckless Charge
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain (I don't own Mox Ruby)

SB: 4 Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 Price of Progress
SB: 4 Goblin Vandal
SB: 3 Flaring Pain

[Anonymous]

Powder Keg, anyone?

I don't know about this. It doesn't seem that this build will help win the matchups he's losing too, basically TnT. The Price of Progress are good enough to go main deck. Incinerate over Recklass Charge that needs a creature that isn't always around (and also better as a bolt against TnT). The Flaring Pain in the sideboard are not good enough to stop CoP: Red which makes one reconsider Cursed Scroll again. And I could go on and on...

Case in point, this list is garbage and wouldn't cut it at Crazy's. (Ah, didn't like to be called 'garbage' did you? The doc recommends you keep that crap to yourself)

Food for thought says the doc.

[Rebel428]

Goblin Vandal handles Powder Keg rather well.

Have you ever played the deck?  Reckless Charge + a Goblin not only gives you a faster attack, but further pumps Goblin Piledriver.  Games tend to be over before PoP does enough damage to be worthwhile, but are still available in the sideboard in matchups where it WOULD help (mainly Keeper).  Same with Cursed Scroll:  games should be over before it would be useful, and Barbarian Rings are for dealing the last bit of damage past COP's.  If TnT is a major concern, Rack and Ruin can be in the sideboard over Pyrokinesis.

If the environment warrants cards such as Cursed Scroll, Incinerate, and maindeck PoP's, however, then you should be playing Ankh Sligh anyway.  It is designed to be more resiliant against the dominant control/aggro-control decks at the cost of blazing speed.  He said he didn't think his deck was fast enough, so I simply suggested the fastest deck possible.

Quote The doc recommends you keep that crap to yourself

The rebel recommends that you think a little and take a closer look before speaking.

[Anonymous]

I have had great sucess with my Goblins Go BOOM!

4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Vandal
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Taskmaster
4 Goblin Lackey

4 Reckless Charge
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
1 Fork

19 Mountain

SB: 4 Rack and Ruin
SB: 4 Price of Progress
SB: 4 Scald
SB: 3 Goblin Tinkerer

I was running +1 wheel of fortune -1 mountain but the advent GAT has made wheel suicidal.  

Land count seems high but after playing 18 is the bare minimum, you need to be able to flashback charge as soon as you can.  

Fork with grenade is awesome.

Fireblast is a must it has won me too many games.  It has also taken down too many fat critters and saved my ass.

Taskmaster is my personal tech.  He can be a 2/2 colorless or a golbin pumpknight (ok with out first strike or pro-color but hey golbins are stupid).  But he can pump other goblins, not just himslef so it means you can pump damage to what ever gobbo you want.

The tinkerers are my tech vs mask and I took them out last tourney and that cost me.  I got paired with mask and I won the second game.  If I can been able to bring in the tinkerer it would have been game.  

Scald is awesome vs keeper and phid (thanks John!).  I feel scald is better than flaring pain since pain is only good vs COPs and such.  Scald just hurts blue stuff in general.  There is nothing more humorous than attacking with a pile of goblins while keeper has a COP Red out... and you have scald out!   Turns every counter spell into a shock for them.

Vandals maindeck have been great too.  My vandals have crunched moxen, scroll racks, cursed scrolls, kegs, and I even ate a dreadnought once, yum yum...

[Anonymous]

All right Mr. Rebel, peace! You seem like a pretty cool guy so I'll offer you a truce.

What I meant about keeping crap to yourself was not your opinions but your slander. Your suggestions after all are consistent with your speed theme, but I happen to feel that he should rely more on a controlling sligh even if Darth Danimal himself doesn't. I know his metagame because we play at the same shop. The rest of what I said was just a response to what you suggested and wasn't critical at all.

Yes I have played the deck and I always think before I talk. It's what it takes to be the doc.

[Anonymous]

why dont you just check out the article (in the article section) on legends red stompy.  That apears what your aiming for, and all my advice would just be telling you everything he says there.  A similar deck to his got my 12 year old self a solid 4th place in a local tourny.

[Rebel428]

Dr. Dru: My apologies if I sounded somewhat aggressive.  We just spent the last few months in school "learning" about persuasive essays, so a lot of that has fallen into my writing on the internet.

Anyway, as I said, if you want to play a more controllish Sligh, Ankh Sligh is the way to go.  It is nowhere near as fast as Goblin Sligh (red stompy as many seem to call it), but it is just as capable of winning through sixteen burn spells, Cursed Scrolls, and Ankh of Mishra.  Read Legend's primer on that too, as well as MoltoDET's threads in the Extreme Vintage forum.

[Anonymous]

some comments on your deck and the card choices:

why only 2 fetchlands? I play 8 fetchlands along with 2 barbarian rings and 10 mountains and i never have a problem finding two mountains to sac to the 4 fireblasts i run (i prefer fireblast over goblin grenade, i don't believe in helping my opponent by helping him kill off my own creatures.)

wheel of fortune- is not as good as it sounds, it basically gives your opponent more cards to stop you with, but of course there could be times where it could be good.

i'd play with 4x bolt, 4x chain lightning, 4x incinerate

ball lightning is jank nowadays it WILL be mana drained into a morphling...

goblin mutant is uber jank, piledriver is just much better, if you are going to play goblin mutant you might as well play goblin good. either way if you don't drop a lackey 1st or 2nd turn you might as well rip up that mutant in your hand and throw it at your opponent, while with piledriver it's actually a GOOD two drop.

cursed scroll is good colorless damage but is way too slow

grim lavamancer- this guy is actually pretty good imo, maybe a bit slow but between the creatures that will be dying and the fetchlands you should have no problem find fuel for him, and it only takes 1 mana to activate and he can even attack for 1. Great for times when your opponent sets up a moat.

goblin vandal and tinkerer are both inferior to gorilla shaman. you have to actually attack with vandal for it to work and with tinkerer you still have summoning sickness. With the gorilla shaman he can come down and chew up moxen right away... of course if you insist on playing only goblins or something like that then what can i say.

As for the sideboard there should be a few flaring pains in there unless you never run into COP:red

of course i'm not saying i'm a professional or not but the above OPINIONS are based on my personal experience of playing sligh throughout the years

[Anonymous]

You need to decide whether you want blazing fast turn 3 kill Sligh or a more resilient controllish version of Sligh.  If you get wishy-washy and start mixing up your deck, you end up losing more to the matches you should win without significantly helping the matches that you usually lose.  A deck needs focus, especially in a format as powerful and crazy as Type 1.  Trying to do too much with a deck might seem good in theory, but it ends up making the deck worse when you actually play.  That's what the sideboard is for...to help in the really bad match-ups for your deck.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your input..heres my decklist..
Pile Sligh-(8th at Crazy-Con)
4XMogg Fanatic
4XGoblin Piledriver
4XGoblin Lackey
4XGrim Lavamancer
4XBall Lightning(Not jank..the look on the opponents face when i swing for 6 is priceless..its also usually sided out against chill and mana drain bearing players)
2XMogg Flunkies
4XLightning Bolt
4XFireblast
4XCursed Scroll
3XChain Lightning
2XPrice of Progress
1XBlack Vise
1XWheel of Fortune
1Xfork
2XBloodstaind Mire
2XBarbarian Ring
14XMountains(I don't own a ruby or any more fetchland..)
-Sideboard-
3XTormads Crypt
2XPrice of Progress
2XN.Disk
3XPowder Keg
3XFire/Ice
2XThreaten

And by the way congrats to Dr. Dru on his 4th place, also unpowered, and rebel maybe you need to watch what you say.....
More suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!Thanks in advance!!

[Rebel428]

I know this is against site policy, but I really feel the need to repeat what Demitrius said:  FOCUS YOUR DECK.  You can't go half blazing speed Sligh and half slow aggro-contro Sligh.  Go either with ~24 goblins and ~12 burn/utility spells or 12 creatures and ~24 burn spells/control artifacts/Utility (Cursed Scroll, Ankh of Mishra, Fork).  

There should be NO Sligh deck without 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Chain Lightning.  They are simply the most efficient burn spells available.  

Grim Lavamancer isn't very good, simply because he is pretty slow.  Even if I DID run it, it would only be with all eight fetchlands.  Since you don't have them, I strongly advise against the Lavamancer.  You already have four Cursed Scrolls anyway; adding Lavamancers is overkill.  

Fireblast is OK, but is becoming much less viable with Misdirection becoming rampant.  At least Goblin Grenade is slightly lower card disadvantage if Misdirected.

Wheel of Fortune is also OK, but also questionable in the current metagame.  Giving Tog or combo players 7 new cards is simply suicide; they will be able to abuse the new cards more than you can.  If you don't see Tog or combo, then by all means keep it.

Again, repeating what I and others again (sorry mods), BALL LIGHTNING IS NOT A GOOD CARD.  Just for your convenience, I will list all the reasons I can think of that show why Ball Lightning isn't good.

I will start with the following quote from Dave Kaplan's Sligh mini-primer:

"Ball Lightning - If there was ever a bigger Mana Drain target. Good in theory, like communism. Three Shocks all on 1 card, right? No! He only resolves when an impending tag team of Fire and Ice is taking out 2 dorks for the price of 1. The triple red means he really costs 2RR, which is way too slow in this deck."

Considering you were looking for speed, this alone should convince you not to run Ball Lightning.  If not, here are other reasons:

1.  In a well-focused deck, Goblin Piledriver does just as much damage (if not more), and can do so more than once.

2.  If you look carefully, Ball Lightning is nothing but a three-mana blockable burn spell that can only be aimed at the head.  There are better things you can do with three mana (PoP, or see below.

3.  Sligh needs strong, stable damage sources that stick around (especially if you are running a slower version, such as Ankh Sligh).  This is why cards like Jackal Pup, Ankh of Mishra, and Cursed Scroll are good, while Ball Lightning (and, to some extent, Fireblast) is not.

Quote (Not jank..the look on the opponents face when i swing for 6 is priceless..its also usually sided out against chill and mana drain bearing players)

I personally prefer the look on the opponents face with a third turn win via first turn Lackey, second turn Piledriver + Flunkies, third turn Reckless Charged Goblin Cadets + burn spell.  10 damage PoP's are nice too.


As Legend said,

"Not unrealistic at all, as this scenario doesn't even involve drawing multiples of any one card."

Your sideboard needs work also.  Why run Fire/Ice over Pyrokinesis since you have no blue whatsoever?  And do you seriously expect to reliably cast Disk with such a low mana count?  Tormod's Crypt isn't great in Sligh either, though your metagame may warrant their being included.  Don't get me started about having Powder Keg in there....

Do us all a big favor and read Kaplan and Paltzik's primers before posting again.  They are there for a reason.

[Anonymous]

I'll side out balls against the decks that exploite them, but they are good against most and dont let me down...as for the goblin dream hand, lackeys never hit for me so to focus my deck on them would be suicide.I tried last week and got crushed..Lavamancer and scroll are good but not great, however they cant seem to get replaced by anything else i've tried. Keep the input comin. Thanks in advance!!