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Author Topic: 10-Land  (Read 1163 times)
Anonymous
Guest
« on: January 06, 2003, 05:00:41 am »

OK, I admit it.  I saw Legend's Red Stompy and now feel compelled (for whatever reason) to post my 10-Land decklist, which I feel is faster (unstable as hell, yes, but faster Wink)

The goldfish, provided you allow yourself to mulligan ass hands is sub 4 which means you get more turn 3 kills than turn 5 kills.  Killing after turn 5 is hard to do.

4 Rogue Elephant
4 Hidden Herd (1 -- see below)
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Skyshroud Ridgebacks (2)
4 Wild Mongrel (3)
4 Quirion Ranger

4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Briar Shield
4 Giant Growth/Seal of Strength (4)
4 Rancor
1 Berserk

1 Black Vise
1 Strip Mine (5)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal
10 Forest

Sideboard varies, although when it comes right down to it, I have to concede that no amount of SBing can overcome the sad reality that I can't beat Oath (what version/style/etc seemingly doesn't matter), Parfait or Mono-U at anywhere near a 50% clip   I can confirm that Gaea's Herald is horrendously bad, although Multani's Presence still has my interest raised  

1)  Like I said, this build is highly unstable.  Elites are slightly "safer" since they can beat for one each turn regardless of what your opponent does, but honestly casting a 1/1 Elite  is just embarrasing yourself IMO

2) Most TMDers dislikee? Well, big surprise there.  Ridgebacks suck.  But the alternatives are unplayable in the extreme...

3) Seem bad, but I've found its pump-ability *does* matter, and overall I say that its better than River Boa for a variety of reasons.  I'll elaborate if someone is interested although I doubt I'm gonna convince anyone on this point

I would certainly appreciate thoughts on this slot.  Hidden Gibbons seems poplar 'round these parts.  The problem is that unlike non-basics and Hidden Herd, your opponent totally controls when it becomes a creature.  At which point they will probably play a mass removal spell.  Also, Gibbons suck severely against TnT.

Other ideas (including bad ones) are: Vine Dryad, Wild Dogs, Blurred Mongoose, Straw Golem (???), after that I dunno

4)  Yes, you lose instant speed with Seal.  But there are some tricks you can occasionally play with it, that may or may not make up for its lack of surprise value, depending

5) Not "disruption" per se since everybody knows disruption is bad in Stompy *wink*  *wink*  Even assuming it costs you a land drop via Quirion Ranger's ability, it still effectively reads:

G  Sorcery
~this~ can't be countered (or misdirected)
Destroy target land

Close enough to Time Walk for me anyway.

6)  No Lyrist's main because thats just silly.  Here is a scenario that happened to me:

Keeper goes first, plays Mox Sapphire and a Blue dual.
I play a first turn dork which promptly gets Mana Drained.
Keeper lays another mana source and drops Abyss.  Considering thats one of the few scenarios where I can't win around an Abyss, could someone please explain to me how Lyrist helps?

As for Moat, if it hits play game one (highly unlikely) I scoop.  Same with Oath basically.  Besides which, supposedly being able to handle enchantments does nothing when my opponent plays Peacekeeper! *sobs*


Lastly, I definitely realize that I'm not running any Land Grants or Fetchlands.  Drawing a Fetchland as my only mana source means that I can't play Ghazban Ogre on that turn.  While I wouldn't call that the end of the world, its still negative synergy for a miniscule "thinning" advantage vs simply running more forests.

As for Land Grant, I'm some what surprised they are as beloved as they are.  Obviously no one who plays them has ever had them FOW'd or Hymn/Unmasked/Duress'd away on the first turn.  Considering that unless you very quickly top-deck a forest this is a virtual auto-loss, I'm wary of using them.  The only tangible benefit is that they're additional pitch fodder for Bounty of the Hunt.  Big deal.  If I draw a Forest instead of a Grant I'll just pitch it to Rogue or Mongrel instead.

Thanks for reading this long-ish post.  Not to worry, I'll be going back to lurking now
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Matt The Great
Guest
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2003, 05:04:50 am »

Quote from: Guest+Jan. 06 2003,04:00
Quote (Guest @ Jan. 06 2003,04:00)Keeper goes first, plays Mox Sapphire and a Blue dual.
I play a first turn dork which promptly gets Mana Drained.
Keeper lays another mana source and drops Abyss.  Considering thats one of the few scenarios where I can't win around an Abyss, could someone please explain to me how Lyrist helps?
You cast Lyrist (and whatever other creatures you can). Next turn, put the Abyss on the stack targeting Lyrist. Respond to it by sacrificing the Lyrist, targeting the Abyss. Both die, and you keep pounding.\n\n

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Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2003, 05:20:58 am »

Quote from: Matt The Great+Jan. 06 2003,02:04
Quote (Matt The Great @ Jan. 06 2003,02:04)
Quote from: Guest+Jan. 06 2003,04:00
Quote (Guest @ Jan. 06 2003,04:00)Keeper goes first, plays Mox Sapphire and a Blue dual.
I play a first turn dork which promptly gets Mana Drained.
Keeper lays another mana source and drops Abyss.  Considering thats one of the few scenarios where I can't win around an Abyss, could someone please explain to me how Lyrist helps?
You cast Lyrist (and whatever other creatures you can). Next turn, put the Abyss on the stack targeting Lyrist. Respond to it by sacrificing the Lyrist, targeting the Abyss. Both die, and you keep pounding.
Yes, obviously.  Is this sarcasm or do you seriously take me to be an idiot?

The problems with your solutions are many:

1) I have to draw Lyrist or already have it in hand.

2) Lyrist, be it Elvish or Druid,  has to resolve AND survive a turn.  Playing a second creature at least means that it can't be removed by Diabolic/Chainer's Edict but any spot removal  such as Fire/Ice or Swords to Plowshares does kill it.  Thankfully most Keeper builds are woefully short in that department.

3)  Even assuming I manage to kill The Abyss, I'm still looking at trying to comeback from a second turn Abyss lock. Extremely unlikely, wouldn't you agree? Under this scenario I couldn't realistically begin dealing damage until turn 4.
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MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2003, 10:34:14 am »

As opposed to lyrist, you can always use Emerald Charm.

Basicly though, Lyrist is better in case you just want to kick your opponent around for a few extra points of damage (so, when you don't need to destroy an enchantment).

Lyrist can be useless under a humility though.
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