Keeper

[Anonymous]

I'm going to tell you ahead of time, I haven't been playing Type 1 long.. only a month or so. I've played competitive Type 2 for years but recently the environment has become very stagnant and boring, and I don't think Legions is going to help that at all. So, I've started playing Type 1 also. I'm working on building Keeper.. I'm running this build right now:

 - Creatures -
2x Morphling

 - Spells -
1x Ancestral Recall*
1x Balance
2x Cunning Wish
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Dismantling Blow
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Fire/Ice
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Mind Twist
1x Misdirection
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Regrowth
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Time Walk*
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

 - Enchantments -
1x Sylvan Library
1x The Abyss*

 - Artifacts -
1x Black Lotus*
1x Mox Emerald*
1x Mox Jet*
1x Mox Pearl*
1x Mox Ruby*
1x Mox Sapphire*
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb

 - Land -
4x City of Brass**
1x Library of Alexandria*
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy*
4x Tundra****
4x Underground Sea****
3x Volcanic Island***
3x Wasteland

 - Sideboard -
1x Allay*
1x Aura Fracture
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Circle of Protection: Black
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Ebony Charm
1x Gorilla Shaman
1x Powder Keg
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Shattering Pulse*
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Teferi's Response

Now, as I said, I haven't been playing Type 1 for very long so although I feel this deck is extremely powerful  don't trust myself as to whether or not this is the best build. Also, I copied this pretty much card for card from this website so if this is your build I'm sorry for not giving you credit where it belongs.   It doesn't have any Undiscovered Paradises in it, nor does it have fetch-lands. Should these be added also? I don't trust my own judgement when it comes to a deck like this, so I've come looking for yours.  

P.S. If you have any of the cards with *'s next to them that you want to sell me relatively cheap, please e-mail me (ssjtrunksf@hotmail.com). And one last thing.. Is $115 a good price for four Italian NM Mana Drains?

[MoreFling]

It looks pretty much like an old version I was using, only then Wish wasn't printed yet, and I still had shaman maindeck.

I guess it's a solid list, but for reference, I'm currently piloting the list you can find by clicking here.

you might want to check up on the paragon keeper discussion, and check out the combo-discussions.

[Matt The Great]

Fetchland builds are pretty much universally hailed as superior to the old four-CoB versions.

I know PsychoCid has at least one Academy to spare. Ask him about it.\n\n

[j_orlove]

Yeah, fetchlands work really well in that deck. If you add them, cut the green and the d-blow (which is just unneccesary) for brainstorms and possibly a chainer's edict or something.

I have a bunch of allays and pulses. PM me if you're interested.

[Anonymous]

Your build looks interesting.  And you kept green which i have seen a lot of ppl drop.  And i'm not sure but 115 for 4 mana drains is like $28.75 each which i guess is ok, but you might get them cheeper, not much but cheeper, yet some ppl might want more for them, so i would just get them if you are serious about the deck.  Which i guess you are.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the help so far, sorry I didn't get back here sooner. Yeah, so my version looks a bit outdated.  Thanks for the link.. looks like I need to get with the times. Is Brainstorm really that good? Isn't it pretty much worthless if you don't have a fetch land to shuffle with? I see that version has cut green.. I'm thinking I'll drop my City of Brasses for 2x Polluted Delta and 2x Flooded Strand but should I add some Tropical Islands so that I can tutor for those with the fetch lands? Also, think I should cut a Morphling for a Braingeyser?

[j_orlove]

Quote should I add some Tropical Islands so that I can tutor for those with the fetch lands

Most people found that with the fetch lands, you really want a four-color manabase. Trying to work in tropicals just means that you end up with spells you can't cast in way too many games.


And apparently, Brainstorms are really strong. They're great with fetchlands and tutors, they protect your cards against discard, and they can help you just set up the next few turns so you don't draw Abyss on turn 2 and swords on turn 4.

[Freddie]

I have an itallian The Abyss for sell...

And I will throw in the Allay and the Shattering pulse for Free

115.00 for IT mana drains is fair, but not a good deal.

Email me if you are interested:

I will accept Paypal $$

few-ii@yahoo.com

[Schmakt]

Quote (Guest @ Jan. 28 2003,12:15)should I add some Tropical Islands so that I can tutor for those with the fetch lands? Also, think I should cut a Morphling for a Braingeyser?

I always hated City of Brass, and the very first thing I did when the fetchlands came out was yank the Cities and try running a few Trops and a few Fetchlands.  I liked it a lot better than with the Cities.  If you're going to keep the green, I think that the Tropical Islands are a good idea.  Just remember to not ever fetch one until you actually need it.  I only ran two (and two green spells - Regrowth and Sylvan), so fetching one and getting it wasted sucked.  It usually worked out pretty well to wait 'til I was actually holding either Sylvan or Regrowth before fetching the Tropical Island.

[Anonymous]

fetchlands are amazing.  cob is a pile in keeper with these gems now available.  however, i disagree about cutting the green, green gives you so much, i just cant see myself cutting it.  sure the mana base is different with green in, but you get great cards with it, (sylvan -great with fetches and also can help with the mana- regrowth - a tutor for your grave? ALL DAY!- and wisdom-this is debateable, but playing with wisdom, you get to do stupid things that just shouldnt be llegal  - ) it also helps with the board, you get compost, which damn near says you win vs mono black, a tough matchup for any control deck(its cool when mind twist becomes a stroke/geyser also    ) brainstorms are awesome also, so many tricks with these bad boys its cool.  i am still up in the air with the wishes, they can save yer    , but your board changes greatly, i dont have a comment on these yet.  as for the drains, i suggest getting them, i sold mine to get my lotus, and now i cant find any! seriously people are keeping them or want way too much for them, must be the type 1 worlds coming up fever.

[Anonymous]

Ok thanks for all the help so far. To the people who told me to PM them - I don't have a username so that's why I haven't. Please leave your e-mail or AIM so so I can contact you. Anyway, here's the build I've come up with now:

Keeper

 - Creatures -
2x Morphling

 - Spells -
1x Ancestral Recall*
1x Balance
2x Cunning Wish
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Dismantling Blow
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Fire/Ice
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Mind Twist
1x Misdirection
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Regrowth
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Time Walk*
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

 - Enchantments -
1x Sylvan Library
1x The Abyss*

 - Artifacts -
1x Black Lotus*
1x Mox Emerald*
1x Mox Jet*
1x Mox Pearl*
1x Mox Ruby*
1x Mox Sapphire*
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb

 - Land -
1x Library of Alexandria*
2x Flooded Strand*
2x Polluted Delta*
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Tropical Island
3x Tundra***
4x Underground Sea****
3x Volcanic Island***
2x Wasteland

 - Sideboard -
1x Allay
1x Aura Fracture
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Circle of Protection: Black
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Ebony Charm
1x Gorilla Shaman
1x Powder Keg
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Shattering Pulse
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Teferi's Response

I've cut a Wasteland and a Tundra for 2x Tropical Island plus the four City of Brass for four fetch lands. It's working out well so far. I tried out the combo (Power Artifact/Grim Monolith) and although it was sometimes very explosive, my metagame has quite a bit of control so I think the 2x Morphling plan is better for me. The next change I'd like to make is to add Braingeyser in, which I think I'm going to replace Dismantling Blow with. Dismantling Blow is expensive and I can Cunning Wish for Allay if needed, so I think Braingeyser would work better in that slot. What do you think of that? Also, is my sideboard ok? Compost seems like a really good idea, especially because there's a good number of mono black decks around that it would be great against. Perhaps I could take out Aura Fracture for it because I already have Allay anyway?

[Anonymous]

looking at your sideboard, i would suggest getting rid of the monkey before the fracture for the compost.  sure you got allay, but 1 allay vs something like b2b sucks, especially if it gets countered or misD.  fracture stops ALL the b2b, unless they capsize it, but thats a whole different story.  and on the blow --> braingeyer, good choice

[Puschkin]

Just wondering: If you were a Type II player beforehand and got into Zype I only one month ago, why did you choose Keeper? Its not only hard to assemble, it is also very hard to pilot correctly. Usually people start with easier decks to get a hang on Type I. It would also hurt you if you assembled all those cards only to find out that Type I isnt your thing. Have you already played that with proxies or on Apprentice?

Dont get me wrong, some players are learning very fast or have a kind of natural talent to get along that fast, but Type I is very complex and not easy to master. Generally its much more easier to convert from a Type I player to Type II than the other way. Just curious.

[Anonymous]

Well, the number one reason was because I hear this is quite possibly the hardest deck to play in Magic and I don't feel that Type II is challenging me enough. I have the deck constructed with proxies and play it a lot on Apprentice also, so it's not like I just decided to start playing and picked Keeper out of a hat.

[Puschkin]

If you are done with Keeper, try to master Full English Breakfast if you really need a challenge ...

[PsychoCid]

Let's see what you've done:
1) Dust Bowl -> Mox Emerald
2) Gorilla Shaman -> Vampiric Tutor
3) Braingeyser -> Dismantling Blow
4) 2 Brainstorm -> Regrowth/Sylvan
5) City of Brass -> Tropical Island
6) Undiscovered Paradise -> Tropical Island

And let's see how it affects you:
1) One less bullet in the mirror for a bland mana source
2) One less bullet in the mirror for card disadvantage
3) Less draw power--very important to Keeper
4) This is and of itself is not so horrid, but see next 2:
5) One less stable mana source
6) One less stable mana source

As far as 3, 5, and 6 go--if you're running 5 colors, that means you should be running MORE multi-color producing lands, not NONE.

Your Sylvan is a bullet much like Shaman would be, but it simply cannot do the same thing--improve the board situation.  Sylvan is very nice, but Brainstorms can perform similar functions without ruining your mana base and being weaker against aggro.

Your Mox Emerald is not going to be a game winner, really, unless it powers something already broken (ie Mind Twist)--whereas Dust Bowl is a house until it gets dealt with.

Gorilla Shaman would create card advantage for you and Vampiric Tutor will work against this.  Yes, it can fetch your Ancestral, but if you're already throwing away those benefits, you're not as well off.

Regrowth is just an excellent card.  Sadly, it's not worth screwing the mana base over for.  Regrowth fetches a bullet that's not in your library, but so does Cunning Wish Hence the second sentence of this blurb.

Coupling these items with the fact that you are inexperienced with the deck, I would not at all expect to do so well against opposing decent control players.  Also, with a mana base that is all that much more fragile (you can't even afford 1 or 2 Islands to fetch early against decks with b2b/moon!), a solid aggro deck is likely to get very good use of their Wastelands, and will be able to work you over.

[Anonymous]

Quote  As far as 3, 5, and 6 go--if you're running 5 colors, that means you should be running MORE multi-color producing lands, not NONE.

 totally agree, paradise should be in all keeper decks, sept maybe bloodmoon keeper

Quote  Your Mox Emerald is not going to be a game winner, really, unless it powers something already broken (ie Mind Twist)--whereas Dust Bowl is a house until it gets dealt with.

Quote  Also, with a mana base that is all that much more fragile (you can't even afford 1 or 2 Islands to fetch early against decks with b2b/moon!), a solid aggro deck is likely to get very good use of their Wastelands, and will be able to work you over.

kinda contradicting yourself there plus keeper isnt all that interested in LD anymore like it was when it ran the miner in board, too many cards in against the mirror makes it less potent vs other decks, thats why keeper has shyed from the LD, notice that most now only run 2 wastes instead of 4 like the keeper of old.  as for your comments on wastelands, hell, every multi color deck fears the wastes, it can screw over keeper with 4 colors just as much as a keeper with 5.

also, he said that he would change dblow TO geyser, not the other way around, like you said.  

Quote  Gorilla Shaman would create card advantage for you and Vampiric Tutor will work against this.  Yes, it can fetch your Ancestral, but if you're already throwing away those benefits, you're not as well off.

this is completly debateable, since a vamp can get you a stroke among others which you can stroke for 10, which is hugh card advantage, while with the monkey, he will most likely eat 1-2 moxes, maybe a zorb or vise.  he wont create that much card advatage with most decks, unless they are running academy or dreams or other combo decks which rely heavily on artifact mana.  also, in a late game top decking war, what would you rather see come up, monkey or vamp?

 altho i dont really like vamp at all, mystical does the same thing because mostly you are tutoring for some sort of draw (recall, stroke, geyser) or an answer (balance, twist, time walk, fire/ice, yogwin) and as my personal experience, every time i vamp for something i need, its ALWAYS the top card, it might as well say "pay 2 life, draw top card, skip your draw step"  

[Anonymous]

Ok, I just played against the hell that is Back to Basics and I'm fully convinced to add Undiscovered Paradise to my deck now. Question is what should I cut? One of the Tropical Islands? Also, I'm unsure about my sideboard.. Recently I've been in a couple situations where if I had a Misdirection there it would be a game winner but overall that probably doesn't happen that often so I'm unsure of whether or not I should add one.. and should I have a Diabolic Edict in there for opposing Morphlings and such?

[Zherbus]

On Misdirection: It depends on what you mostly face. It also doesn't have to be a maindeck addition, it could be a wish target.

On your manabase: Yeah, pretty much all of us went to 4 color versions once Onslaught hit. Those Tropicals are pretty and all, but all green is doing to your deck is making it weaker against many strategies.

[Anonymous]

So if I cut green altogether what should I put in its place? Brainstorm or Impulse? Sylvan Library is like a Brainstorm every turn and just that much better with the fetchlands. Also, in some match-ups it can even net you a couple cards when life is unimportant. Regrowth is also awesome as it lets you replay Ancestral Recall or whatever else you need and puts it back in the graveyard to be Yawgmoth's Willed. I'll test out four color though and let you know what I think..

On a side note, Yawgmoth's Will's effect removes itself from the graveyard, correct? To my understanding the Yawgmoth's Will resolves and would then be placed in the graveyard but is instead removed because of its own effect. One of my friends is trying to tell me the spell is placed in the graveyard prior to its resolution. Could someone please tell me what happens to it?

[Zherbus]

Noone said the green cards weren't good, but rather that its better to have a more solid manabase. That involves removing the weaker color.

If you want to trade life for cards, use Skeletal Scrying. It's wishable and non-misdirectable/non-red elemental blastable. The missing Regrowth is very tough, but you deal. Keeper isn't about casting Ancestral over and over again anymore, Gro had a big part in changing that. You have to play more carefully, but at the very least if you Yawgmoths Will (which you should have just won anyways), you can always Cunning Wish for Ancestral again.

Yes, Will removes itself.