Monoblack vs TnT

[Anonymous]

Hey people.

Well, I know my metagame will include several TnT players.  So I need any edge I can get with monoblack.

Any help?  Please don't say that I shouldn't bother making preparations for this matchup because it's basically an autoloss anyways.
I want _some_ hope.  Thank you.    


The deck I'll be going in with:


February-03-Schtuffiez

--Lands:  (16)
16x  Swamp

--Mana Acceleration: (5)
4x  Dark Ritual
1x  Sol Ring

--Card Draw:  (4)
1x  Necropotence
1x  Demonic Tutor
1x  Demonic Consultation
1x  Vampiric Tutor

--Removal (non-targetting):  (8)
4x  Nevinyrral's Disk
4x  Diabolic Edict

--Discard:  (13)
4x  Hypnotic Specter
4x  Duress
4x  Hymn To Tourach
1x  Mind Twist

--Land Destruction:  (5)
4x  Wasteland
1x  Strip Mine

--Win Condition:  (4)
4x  Phyrexian Negator

--Alternative Win Conditions:  (5)
4x  Mishra's Factory
1x  Yawgmoth's Will


Sideboard:
4x  Masticore
4x  Contagion
4x  Powder Keg
3x  Tormod's Crypt


 

[Jebus]

Well, TNT will be a tough matchup for you.  But, there are some things you can do.

Powder Keg may be a better option for you than the Disk in the main deck.  It is faster, and a Keg for 1 will kill their welders.

For creatures, you may want to consider Nantuko Shade.  They can get big enough to deal with the majority of TnT's creatures.

Dystopia in the sideboard.  It can get rid of their Survival.

You may want to drop the Sol Ring and Mind Twist.  They aren't really that optimal in this deck.

An early Planar Void can really hurt them, but the Crypt may work for you.

I'd also consider droping the Factories for another weanie such as Sarcomancy.  The Factories may just turn into a Wasteland target.  Flesh Reaver is not optimal in this matcup so I wouldn't bring them in, just in case you were thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

My metagame is hugely mixed.  And there are a few matchups that I've prepared for.

Metagame includes:  2-3 SuiBlack, 2-3 Control, 2-3 TnT, 2-3 Sligh, ~5 Reanimator, 1-2 Combo...  Finally, several Tog/Gro and Mask players.

As you can see, I'd like to keep my sideboard worthy against most of these matchups rather than a key few.


I used to mainboard Kegs, but I almost always preferred to have drawn a Disk.  Kegs are better to be sideboarded.

Nantuko Shades haven't worked out in this deck at all.  But if I had access to 4 of them, I'd probably consider running them.  But I don't have any.    

Dystopia was a consideration.  But it won't only work against a handful of decks.  If it would give me the winning edge against TnT, then I'd definitly run it.

Sol Ring is in a metagame slot.  In a hugely mixed metagame, I slap in Sol Ring instead of a hoser.

Mind Twist works great in this deck.

As for Planer Void, I've considered it.  But I haven't playtested it very much.  Is it better than Crypt?

Factories act as creatures 8-12, while being lands 21-25.
If they get destroyed, it doesn't really bother the deck.  But if they don't get destroyed, then they're huge post-Disk damage.  And great Innocent Blood sac'cers.

 

[Jebus]

The reason I stated Mind Twist wasn't very good in this deck, is that it requires at least three mana to net get two cards.  Hymn does this for two.  Mind Twist just seems like an uneeded extra, but if it works for you thats fine.

I failed to mention Sinkhole.  If you can keep hitting their mana, you may have a chance.  However, the ability for TnT to get an explosive first turn normally negates this.  However, keeping their Green sources away from them will prevent a survival from hitting the table.

I haven't tested Planar Void as I prefer Ebony Charm myself, but the Crypt may be just as good as those.

Not that I'd run it, but a crazy idea would be Kill Switch.  Yeah, I'm just going crazy at this point.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies, btw.

I wouldn't mind splashing another color to take out TnT.  How do other decks beat it?  (Basically, what beats TnT?    )

I would run Sinkholes in the sideboard but, again, I don't have them.    
I wouldn't run them mainboard because this deck loves to push the game beyond 15 turns.  So LD becomes dead draws against anything except Keeper.

Hmmm Ebony Charm...  I can see it acting as an additional win condition.  But it's just a mini-Crypt though, isn't it?

And Kill Switch.  That doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I was playing against two different TnT builds today and I constantly thought to myself that I wanted a way to stop their attack.  I'll definitly consider it, thank you lots.

 

[Jebus]

It's a mini-crypt essentially, but they won't see it comming.

I wouldn't splash for another color, but that's just me.  It will dilute the deck.

What stops TnT?  Good question.  I don't have an answer to that, as TnT is one of the best aggro decks out there in my opinion.

Maybe you should try running Nether Void.  Your deck isn't too far off it now.  You just need voids.  Of course, Nether Void costs $$ so...

[Anonymous]

Replacing the Disks with Nether Void for sideboard would make this deck identical to a regular Nether Void deck.
But even if I still had Voids, this deck outperforms it in almost every matchup.  With a stronger mid-late game.

TnT seems like it would be stopped if the Welder was StP'd, or if the Survivals get destroyed.
But this is just my theory.  I have no idea what beats TnT.  

[Anonymous]

Hey Billy!  just to abuse the fact that you are reading this, come by blockbuster east bay (downtown) on friday night I'm working. or call the store

Schtuffiez: if you want to splash a color to black the obvious choices are green or red.  

Green would turn the deck into PT junk or the Rock.  With recurring nightmare in the rock you can go spiritmonger and deeds against their recursion.  Rock also often runs haunting echoes.  Which just ends it for TNT.  Pernicous Deed and Naturalize are good vs TNT.  

Red gives you Rack and Ruin and since you have dark ritual for extra mana you could even run Viashino Heretic.  

Viashino Heretic  Summon - Viashino (1/3)   2R  
1R, tap: Destroy target artifact. Viashino Heretic deals to that artifact's controller damage equal to the artifact's total casting cost.  

Ashes to ashes is an interesting idea since it removes them from the game so they can't recur them.  

for your metagame I would just adjust your maindeck and run planar void and ashes to ashes in your sideboard.

I'm gonna say this and it really hurts to say it, since I used to run suicide black, but I don't see monoblack being that competative in most metagames.  Sad as it is to say I think white weenie has a better chance against TNT and the rest of the metagame.

Of course if you really want to beat TNT run parfait!
it beats reanimator, suicide, and is pretty good against control too.

[Jebus]

I agree, if you did splash, green would be the color, but would change the deck to something else (not really a bad idea considering your situation though).

I'm also starting to loose faith in monoblack (aside from Void).  I still plan on running it for the time being until I get something else thrown together (leaning toward Nether Void Goblin or Ankh Sligh).  I have been successful with it recently, but TNT is always my worst matchup.

I do urge you to reconsider Dystopia, as thats all you will have to kill their survival.  Other than that, you need to Duress/Hymn it away.

I'll have to call you Bill.  I hate going downtown and tomorrow is Type 2 at the Dragon.

[Anonymous]

Seems that if I want to beat TnT, I'll have to toss in a lot of anti-TnT-only metagame cards.

What will TnT have to battle Dystopia?
If they'll have nothing, then it seems like _the_ card to sideboard.

Thanks a lot.


As for monoblack being competitive...  It's still a consisent Top 8 performer.  Even in a heavily-mixed metagame like mine.

[Jebus]

They may have Naturalize for enchantment removal.  But, Dystopia is not the kind of thing you want to keep in play forever anyway.  THey will probably leave it up.

You need to consider how to remove it yourself when it becomes a burden.

You will want to side in your Masticore.  You probably sided out Negator, but if you didn't, Ping a Negator and sac the Dystopia.

[j_orlove]

Ashes to ashes can't hit artifacts.

If you want to beat TnT, you need to be able to handle the early creatures and then the Welders--these are the cards they will usually kill you with. Survival usually takes a few turns, so if you can stop the first wave of stuff, you may get a chance to take them out.

Masticore and kegs/crypts may not work out, since welders can do crazy things when you have artifacts for them to switch. Planar Void is probably better than Keg, since it's much harder to work around.

[Anonymous]

Hitting your discard early certainly would help.  A 1st turn dark ritual-duress-hymn will hurt most any deck.  Last weekend, I had 2 games where I got off a 5 card mind twist which put me in control of that particular game.  I sb'd 4 disks and broke them out a couple of times.  It was very effective in "equalizing" the game.  To be honest, I'm not really sure what you can add to the deck without making a pretty decent financial commitment (i.e. Nether Voids)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies.

Theoritcally, Planar Void would get rid of most of my worries for game 1.  Giving me hope that they'll get crap draws for game 2.  But, of course, maindecking Planar Void might not be the best option.

After game 1, TnT will sideboard a _lot_ of enchantment and artifact kill.
Which effectively kills all my options against TnT.
Hmmm...  !!!


Looks like I won't be making Top 8 this time.

[ump]

Quote As for Planer Void, I've considered it.  But I haven't playtested it very much.  Is it better than Crypt?

You say you have 5 reanimators in your metagame.  If you mulligan to get a first-turn Planar Void, it's an autowin.  Planar Void is also really good against TnT because it will force them to either find an answer (with a Lyrist or something) or go aggro without the recurssion.  The time lost if they go for an answer will hurt them.  Definitely go with Nantuko Shade and trade one with a Juggernaut if necessary.  Out of curiosity, what do you side in/out against TnT?

Where are your Sinkholes?  They are really good against TnT as well as your other matchups.

I also agree with a previous comment about finding an alternative to Mishra's Factories.  Find 4 Nantuko Shades.

[Anonymous]

But isn't a mid-late game Planar Void ineffective?
I remember that everytime I've went against Reanimator, that I just wished that I had a Crypt to get rid of their massive graveyard.

I'd love to have Sinkholes and Shades, but I don't have them right now.  

The Factories work as lands, mostly.  And Edict saccers if necessary.  Taking them out for creatures would put my land count to 21  (too low).  And they work great as secondary win conditions.

As for sideboarding against TnT...    
I have nothing against TnT, yet.

[j_orlove]

Quote After game 1, TnT will sideboard a _lot_ of enchantment and artifact kill.

Usually not. TnT doesn't have that much room to bring in Naturalizes, unless they see targets game 1 (like Planar Void). You might see removal in game 3, though, if you bring in a ton of stuff against them, but TnT doesn't have much room to bring in removal unless they really have to.

[ump]

Quote But isn't a mid-late game Planar Void ineffective?

Yes, but with 3-4 Planar Voids and a Demonic Consultation, you have a really good chance to get a first turn Planar Void, especially if you start mulliganing to get it.

Quote As for sideboarding against TnT...    
I have nothing against TnT, yet.

What I was trying to go for is what are you currently siding against TnT.  I find it hard to believe that you stick with your main deck.  I am assuming you side out Necro, 4 Negator, and probably even the 4 Duress (because other than the Survival, there really isn't much to get).

Also, from the Suicide primer:

Quote First of all, do not, under any circumstances, play Mishra’s Factory. It will just give your opponent a Wasteland target in a deck that should have none. Mishra's Factory is also easily removed in a variety of other ways, and even more importantly, is impossible to use in a deck that already is at its critical mass of colorless mana in the form of Wasteland and Strip Mine.

[Anonymous]

TnT may run an additional enchantment killer in the sideboard, plus a couple of Naturalizes.  Those combined seem like enough to deal with 4 Planar Voids...  (If I decide to run Planar Void, of course.)

The Suicide primer snippet applies to a deck that has mostly double-black spells.  This deck neither runs Nantuko Shade or Sinkhole.
If I found that my deck had trouble finding double black, then I would definitly run more Swamps...  But I don't find it necessary.

[j_orlove]

Quote TnT may run an additional enchantment killer in the sideboard, plus a couple of Naturalizes.  Those combined seem like enough to deal with 4 Planar Voids...  (If I decide to run Planar Void, of course.)

But they often won't have room to bring those cards in, unless you have a lot of targets, since they'll need to remove other good cards to fit in the conditional, reactive enchantment removal.

[Anonymous]

So, basically, they'll side in how many ever is enough to kill the Planar Voids.    

I think I've decided to run Planar Voids instead of Tormod's Crypts.