Just wondering what anyone thinks the T1 restricted list ...

[Corvel]

Just wondering what anyone thinks the T1 restricted list will look like as of December First. I was thinking of picking up a set of Workshops but didn't want to make a bad investment.

[Diddler]

Well, I don't think it would be wise to buy them within the next couple of days.  Can't you wait until Monday?

[Sytupal]

Buying workshops would not be a smart choice until Dec 1st when it proves whether or not they are restricted.  ~ However, the last time a thread like this was put up it was closed soon after due to the fact that the banned/restricted list is coming out in a few days.

[BrokenDeck]

Of course, this could be the best time to pick up workshops if no one is buying.  Then the price will drop, and if they are not restricted then you got a good deal.  It's called a high risk investment, but don't let the name scare you.  It's really more like gambling.

[Corvel]

Both sides of these arguments have strong points all thow I'm not sure I am risky enough to gamble on it. If they do get restricted would Welder MUD & other Workshop decks still be solid enough deck to compeat?

[Hunted Wumpus]

Without a full set of workshops, WMUD and Any workshop decks are going to become second to Grow, Keeper, Long, and Maddness. If the meta slows down enough maybe Void with come back OH! OH! OH! i love it!!!!!!  

[centroles]

the updated restricted list will probably include mishra's workshop and lion's eye diamond. that is if the dci has any idea of how degenerate the game is becoming. gro, keeper and madness simply can't compete with these decks.

even if workshop makes the list, artifact decks won't goaway. and long decks will simply evolve into rectal based ones. the format will be slowed down. but these two decks will still be leading the pack.

i have personally witnessed versions of welder mud and/or stax win relatively competitive tournaments without playing a single copy of mishra's workshop or any of the moxen or black lotus. they're slightly slower but the raw power of the deck still pulls through. there are plenty of lands like ancient tomb, city of traitors and plenty of sources of mana like the moxen, lotus, sol ring, mana vault, mana crypt and tolarian academy to pick up the slack for the three missing workshops.

[Tripps]

Honestly Centroles, everytime you talk, you ramble on for multiple paragraphs, and still manage to spit out nothing but utter bullshit. It amazes me.

I doubt Workshop will get restricted, as MUD is strong, but not degenerate, but I still wouldn't pick them up soon unless the prices drop(which they very well might), becasue the DCI restricted Earthcraft and Entomb when they weren't relaly doing much harm. And if Workshop DOES get restricted, wMUD won't work anymore, so I don't see where you're getting the whole "wont goaway" thing from.

Also, about Stax and MUD runnin without Workshops Moxen and Lotus, you said they are made up for by Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus, and the Moxen. I thought you just said they didn't run moxen or lotus? You confuse me. The deck won't work without Moxen, because Sphere, Wire, and Stack are a LOT less effective, and Welder has a lot less targets to weld out. Furthermore, just because the deck still can play without Workshops, doesn't mean it is still fast enough to compete.

LED won't get restricted be Long.dec gets hated out really easily, and isn't stomping a mudhole in the metagame like it used to, although it may be on the watch list.

As far as decks not beignable to compete: Gro hasn't been viable for a long time, normal Keeper hasn't really been viable, but Scepter Keeper have been making good showings recently, so saying they can't keep up is shit. Madness? Madness is a good deck that can do well, but you keep talking about it, Keeper, and Gro like they are the only viable decks behind Long.dec and wMUD. Nothing agaisnt madness, but I think you seem to think it is better than it really is.

As to Long.dec turning into Rector based combo, Dragon.dec has proved itself to be a sturdy combo deck that is less easily disrupted as Long.dec and Rectal.


Please stop talkign about what is "degenerate" and what isn't until you actually have a grasp on what is and isn't. The DCI may be watching.

/End rant

Again, I probably wouldn't pick up Workshops, becuase you never know what the DCI will do. But if they dip down low enough, go ahead and get them, because they may not get axed, adn even if they do, will still see casual play.

[Corvel]

I have to agree with Centroles on the topic of welder mud still being good even with workshop being restricted. I am runing welder mud with one pice of power (Jet) and no workshops. In my testing it still doesn't seem to have much different matchups than the powered version.

[jpmeyer]

Mud isn't even really tier 1 any more.  Why do people think that it's still worth restricting.

[Metanoia]

what the DCI should do:

ban Tendrils
errata Dragon

and the meta will be fine

what they probably will do because of the "only ante/dexterity cards can be banned and creatures can't be restricted and we like to restrict combo enablers and not the combo cards themselves, although we do really hate combo decks " policy:
restrict LED
restrict Burning Wish
restrict Bazaar
restrict Compulsion
restrict Intuition
restrict Buried Alive

or something like that...

[BuboniC]

Quote (Metanoia @ Nov. 28 2003,00:39)what the DCI should do:

ban Tendrils
errata Dragon

and the meta will be fine

what they probably will do because of the "only ante/dexterity cards can be banned and creatures can't be restricted and we like to restrict combo enablers and not the combo cards themselves, although we do really hate combo decks " policy:
restrict LED
restrict Burning Wish
restrict Bazaar
restrict Compulsion
restrict Intuition
restrict Buried Alive

or something like that...

Thse are the type of posts that make me cry inside. Long isn't even teir 1 anymore, it loses too keeper, MUD, fish and sometimes dragon. Chalice killed long. Tendrils will never ever ever be banned, even though wotc is incredibly dumb, they have a better perspective on how broken is too broken. Also: If you errata dragon, restric bazaar and Buried alive! come on now- please grow up, in T1 you need too be able too play vs decks that will kill you 1st/2nd turn. If you cant, then play 1.5/T2. You must hate dragon, seeing as almost every card you named was in the deck, and compulsion you think needs restriction? I think you are so right, I remember losing too all those decks that use four of that broken,broken card. Then, above all you take away another deck that isnt very highly competitive, MUD and stax. I mean how about we just all quit magic except for elf players?(who only get too use 1 Compulsion!!! ) you have just degraded my self confidence by reading this, that i am in the same forum as you.

But, for those of you who can't wait for the restricted list, heres my thoughts:

1) Chalice of the Void/LIons eye diamond(these will only go togethor- and if one lives, the other des too)

2)Errata Dragon(ten cent rares shouldnt do things like this, expecaily since it is a very solid deck vs. anything in the meta, I doubt this will happen, but it is possible-Dragon hasnt destroyed the envirement yet.

Put on the "watch" list:
Force of will
Bazaar of Baghdad
COMPULSION!(It's so |3r0k3n!-if you didnt read it, a person says it should be restricted, therefore I   him)
Mana Drain

Also: T1 is combo, and control is amatchup for combo, so play control or combo, or lose.

[Mage of Dreams]

Quote 2)Errata Dragon(ten cent rares shouldnt do things like this, expecaily since it is a very solid deck vs. anything in the meta, I doubt this will happen, but it is possible-Dragon hasnt destroyed the envirement yet.

Restrict it, build a winning deck around the one copy, wait 10 years or so, and it won't be a .10 rare anymore.

Just for kicks sometime search for the term restrict/restricted for the last year, you will find that if the DCI listened to everything that gets posted, the B/R list would be about 250 cards long, not to mention that entire mechanics, the power 9, and various other insane things would be banned. Thank god they're running the show!

Quote Put on the "watch" list:
Force of will

Not gonna happen nor should it. It's the threat of FoW more then the card itself that keeps T1 decks fairly honest.
(Mental picture of random R&D Lacky sitting at a table in a dimly lit room looking at a single copy of FoW on the table.
R&D guy walks in.. " Did it do anything yet?"
Lacky "Nope"
Guy " Well keep on watching, we hear this card is trouble!")

Quote ban Tendrils

Why the hell should that happen? At worst Storm could recieve errata to trigger on resolution of the original card, but thats not gonna happen either.

[Toad]

What the DCI should really do : have a break, open the fridge, take a beer. And restrict nothing. The format is fine, no deck is really dominant. Long is severely hit by Chalice of the Void. As Jaypee mentionned, wMUD is slightly under the current top decks. Keeper isn't dominant. Dragon will stop to win tournament once players will be smart enough to pack 4 Tormod's Crypt in their sideboards.

My wishes :

Restrict : nothing.
Unrestrict : Braingeyser, Fork.
Ban : Blood Moon and Back to Basics.

Warning : this post contains   stuff.

[Metanoia]

Quote (BuboniC @ Nov. 28 2003,01:07)Thse are the type of posts that make me cry inside. Long isn't even teir 1 anymore, it loses too keeper, MUD, fish and sometimes dragon. Chalice killed long. Tendrils will never ever ever be banned, even though wotc is incredibly dumb, they have a better perspective on how broken is too broken. Also: If you errata dragon, restric bazaar and Buried alive! come on now- please grow up, in T1 you need too be able too play vs decks that will kill you 1st/2nd turn. If you cant, then play 1.5/T2. You must hate dragon, seeing as almost every card you named was in the deck, and compulsion you think needs restriction? I think you are so right, I remember losing too all those decks that use four of that broken,broken card. Then, above all you take away another deck that isnt very highly competitive, MUD and stax. I mean how about we just all quit magic except for elf players?(who only get too use 1 Compulsion!!! ) you have just degraded my self confidence by reading this, that i am in the same forum as you.

@Bubonic: Learn how to read, idiot!

Notice my post where it says "should"? These are the changes I would make. Dragon is overpowered and can always draw games that it should lose. Neo Long (with Crumble/Rebuild) is still overpowered and too fast for the environment.

Notice my post where it says "what they probably will do" followed by the rather lengthy rant which explains why i think the DCI policy should be revised?

That's where I make a joke.

I think none of those cards deserve restriction.

If you would have taken the time to actually read it carefully. You would probably have understood this. But being the self-righteous, arrogant and half-literate retard that you are, you probably missed that...

[Zherbus]

Thread closed and warnings issued.