OK. I want to take a walk since this is my lunch hour but...

[jazzy kat]

OK. I want to take a walk since this is my lunch hour but I was just thinking: Come Jan 1st. long in its post restriction incarnation will be inferior to DARGON without a doubt. People are talking about scepter keeper, and it seems that new lists have people subjugating chalice to their SB (the threat of long has seemingly "vanished"). MUD will no doubt still use chalices, but dragon can blitz right by it so it is kept in check. Venguer mask is hatable: shattering pulse, RR, cruble, stp etc and Keeper can just get run over (I play it, trust me it happens occaisionally). Tog may be harder to deal with, but graveyard hate is going to be rampant and a REB (uncountered) knocks out 1/3 of their win condition.

Since most agreed that chalice = "death" of budget, but chalice seems to be lessening somewhat in popularity I think that a budget deck (some type of beats, has a chance to T8 again).

On a side note: shrapnel blast, artifact lands (including mishra's factorys) and grim lavamancers have sick synergy. I haven't seen a deck trying to exploit it yet (maybe that is so 1.5 or last month's tech).

Now my statements were certainly general, but generally I think I am right. There are always exceptions, but I wrote this more to start a discussion and revive what might soon be a viable archetype if the SB, and even the MD are metagamed properly.

[pen cap chew]

i've been thinking about the shrapnel/scepter thing also.I was thinking that it could be broken wide open with dross scorpion.figure 4 colorless for the scorpion scepter for 2 colorless imprint shrapnel blast sac 2 artifacts, most likley mana producers ,activate scepter scorpion untaps scepter each time an artifact goes to the graveyard the scorpion untaps the scepter. the scorpion would be the third artifact to sacrifice untapping the scepter again and sac the scepter itself for the fourth blast thats 14 colerless for game over.

does anyone think that a viable deck could be made out of this?

[xaos]

Quote (pen cap chew @ Dec. 02 2003,22:17)i've been thinking about the shrapnel/scepter thing also.I was thinking that it could be broken wide open with dross scorpion.figure 4 colorless for the scorpion scepter for 2 colorless imprint shrapnel blast sac 2 artifacts, most likley mana producers ,activate scepter scorpion untaps scepter each time an artifact goes to the graveyard the scorpion untaps the scepter. the scorpion would be the third artifact to sacrifice untapping the scepter again and sac the scepter itself for the fourth blast thats 14 colerless for game over.

does anyone think that a viable deck could be made out of this?

Quote Dross Scorpion Oracle Text:
Whenever Dross Scorpion or another artifact creature is put into a graveyard from play, you may untap target artifact.

sorry, mana producers wouldnt cut it there, although you may be on to something

[Comrade Seraph]

In type 2, you can play with it, marginally... a 4 mana 3/1 isn't remotely playable in T1 though guys.

The grim/shrapnel/furnace thing is interesting however... I'll give it some thought. (note the anti-synergy of furnace w/fireblast, though)

[fuzzedball]

A friend of mine is grafting Shrapnel Blast into his AnkhSligh build. He runs 4 great furnace/4 ankh/3 scroll so with 3 Blasts he rarely doesnt have an artifact to sacrifice. I lost on turn four from Chain+Bolt+Shrapnel Blast+Fireblast after some prelimenary Ankh damage. Creatureless wins from an aggro deck!  

EDIT: there is anti-synergy present, but you can still afford to run 2-3 fireblast. 4 is out of the question though.

[jazzy kat]

I don't play sligh, but fireblast has mana drain pwns you written all over it. I imagine sligh may use the eight blast plan though.

On the other hand, shrapnel blast is only 2cc (more easily hosed by chalice) but takes 1 less card and does 1 more damage and actually must be cast for mana. I am not sure which is better, but I am leaning towards blast.

[Comrade Seraph]

The thing about fireblast is that it never gets cast when it can be drained. It sits in your hand until they tap out at the end of your turn, sitting on a few life and thinking they're safe because you're tapped out too... then it smacks them. The card disadvantage is irrelevant because it is purely kill or complete desperation that drives it -- see Karvek's Spite . What I don't like about shrapnel blast is that it doesn't conceal any information this way - either you have 2 untapped, or you don't. 2 untapped says I might have double bolt (6 dmg) or shrapnel blast (5) - no guessing game there, fewer chances for them to screw up.

I do like that blast doesn't have to be purely kill, and knocks out some creatures sligh otherwise has a bit of trouble with - Karn, Su-Chi, Exalted Angel, etc - though none of those creatures are commonly encountered.

As I said test it out but shrapnel blast has a tough older brother to contend with...