Over the last few weeks i've been hearing alot about ...

[thefram]

Over the last few weeks i've been hearing alot about land-still and it's strengths. The lists that i've seen seem to be good, but i also get the sense that people are holding back their lists as well. I decided to explore a 3 color build for some nice possibilities. In minimal testing its playing well, but that is not the point. I really just want to start some discussion on the deck so we can form a strong competetive build.

Quote
Landstill
Shock Wave (Richard M.)
Lands

 1 Strip Mine
 1 Mountain
 4 Island
 4 Volcanic Island
 4 Wasteland
 4 Mishra's Factory
 4 Faerie Conclave
 1 Wooded Foothills
 1 Library of Alexandria
 1 Flooded Strand

Spells
 1  Ancestral Recall
 1  Time Walk
 1  Black Lotus
 3  Misdirection
 4  Fire/Ice
 4  Standstill
 4  Nevinyrral's Disk
 4  Lightning Bolt
 4  Mana Drain
 4  Force of Will
 1  Lotus Petal
 3  Stifle
 1  Mox Sapphire

Sideboard
 4  Red Elemental Blast
 4  Chalice of the Void
 4  Tormod's Crypt
 3  Maze of Ith

I really like this list, but there are some cards I just dont see the fit for.

1) Lightning Bolt
2) 4 Fire Ice

I really feel that the "spell" theme of standstill is a strong one as it messes with combo, control and aggro alike. So i really feel we could make this a more synergystic list.

Using Shockwaves list as a starter, this is what i came up with.

Landstill
Thefram

Mana/Threats - 28
 1 Strip Mine
 3 Flooded Strand
 2 Island
 4 Volcanic Island
  3 Tundra
 4 Wasteland
 4 Mishra's Factory
 4 Faerie Conclave
 1  Lotus Petal 
 1  Black Lotus
 1  Mox Sapphire

Spells/Spell Hate - 32
 1  Ancestral Recall
 1  Time Walk
 2  Misdirection
 2  Fire/Ice
  2  Swords to Plowshares
 3  Pyrostatic Pillar
 4  Standstill
 4  Nevinyrral's Disk
 4  Mana Drain
 4  Force of Will
 3  Stifle
  2  Decree of Justice

Sideboard
 4  Red Elemental Blast
 4  Chalice of the Void
 4  Tormod's Crypt
 3  Maze of Ith

Decree, Plow, and Pyrostatic Pillar are all really synergystic with the
theme of the deck, and they are also very strong against certain decks in the format.

Pillar gives control, storm combo, and weenie aggro absolute hell, and will often deal something like 6-12 damage over a few short turns, or just completely inhibit a control players game while you play out manland after manland, or a mid-sized decree.

Decree is excellent against control, especially as it goes under standstill and pillar, both of which are trouble cards for them.

Plow is the shit against Dragon, while still having similar usefullness against MUD as fire/ice (without the double welder killing.) It also strengthens the game against mask, which can have a tendency to ignore standstill by dropping a mask first.

In the board, i am considering dropping the chalices for some disenchats or rack and ruins, but i am not sure about the configuration.

On the whole what do people think about this list? About land-still in general? What can we do, using the shockwave list as a starter, to make landstill even better?

-Thefram

[centroles]

considering that crucible of the worlds is guarenteed next set, I think it warrants including too. How would the build change?

[thefram]

You really like jumping the gun, don't you centroles?

"build me a dragon deck if dragon gets axed!"
"Make a deck for crucible, which will not be printed for 2 sets or legal be legal for 8 months."

Could we stay on topic for once?

[BreathWeapon]

I really liked Wu's U/w list with 4 STP and Decree of Justice. That said, I think the deck needs to consider things like 3xCunning Wish to find answers against the broadening field. Wishing for Teferi's Response is pretty huge.

How well has Pyrostatic Pillar actually worked for you? It really doesn't put "pressure" on Control players until their life starts to become minimal, which could be several turns. It also gets in the way of Nev Disk, but I suppose thats really a rather minimal bother.

Some things I don't agree with Shockwave on, Landstill can indeed be a 3 Color deck so long as you are willing to cut MD spells for Manlands.

[thefram]

Well, coming at this from a perspective of having tested Slax w/ Muzzuno Ami during its early stages (4 pillars  ) i know from experience that playing against a pillar is a PAIN in the ass. If you try to blow it up (without a disenchant in hand at that very moment,) you will lose at least 8 life, possibly more. Thats alot of damage, almost a POP for a deck running non-basics. If the control player doesnt actively attempt to blow it up, unless they have GOD HAND, it is most likely that their attempts to lengthen the game will just get them killed. The only decent strategy for control is to wait until the wish comes to them, but often w/ land man beats that is not something you can do.

Against most weenie aggro (its not even that bad to drop them against sligh, given the proper hand full of man-lands) they are excellent as it turns each of their threats in shocks to the dome, and makes SUI-B's disruption hurt them more than you in most instances.

Against storm combo they win the game most of the time, both in slax, and especially in this deck w/ pitch counters to back it up.

The only matchups where they dont help too much are Dragon (even there they are decent, but not spectacular, stifle shines much brighter there) and MUD, where they will not be effected. In the MUD match i have since decided to replace the boarded chalices w/ 2 Rack and Ruin (exlusively for MUD) and 2 Disenchant (MUD and Dragon), which can come in for pillars.

W/ Plows in the deck, nevs becomes less significant, and you can likely drop one dist for another land or Swords.

-Thefram

[GoogleBoots]

Quote (thefram @ Dec. 04 2003,13:32)You really like jumping the gun, don't you centroles?

"build me a dragon deck if dragon gets axed!"
"Make a deck for crucible, which will not be printed for 2 sets or legal be legal for 8 months."

Could we stay on topic for once?

^^^ My hero   
But as for an actual post, I think BreathWeapon is right in that it should have DoJ cuz that is such a house due to it's cycling under 'Still. Also, a friend of mine used to play it, and he ran Dust Bowl. Have you considered this? It would indeed change the outlook on the curve but it worked really well for him.

[wuaffiliate]

i suggest taking a look at specialK's build for 3 colour, its quite good. i really dont think you need 3 colours to be honest, red adds more burn and a few VERY good Sb choices, and white adds an amazing kill and better reamoval.

its really a choice between the two imo, white is adds to the control match quite abit, and red is for more aggro and random fields, where you would see less fully powered players.

i dont think pillar has a place in the maindeck. its not really a threat, its not removal, and it doesnt really stop them from casting anything. its basically a win more card, since landstill goes for the kill after control is established i think its a wasted slot.

[BreathWeapon]

Any consensus on using 3xCunning Wish in Landstill? With all of the draw from Standstill its bound to be able to make use of this card in some form. Thoughts?

[thefram]

@wu

What do you think of Pillar?

-thefram

[wollblad]

There must be something better than Pyrostatic Pillar. The card can often be ignored by your opponent. I see that you have cur Lighning Bolt, but they do have the vital effect of making way for your quite weak manlands, something that Pyrostatic Pillar never can achieve.

The deck largest problem is its lack of mana Acceleration. Why not more moxen, at least the red and white one too?

[Shock Wave]

Quote I see that you have cur Lighning Bolt, but they do have the vital effect of making way for your quite weak manlands, something that Pyrostatic Pillar never can achieve.

... amongst many other advantages of Lightning Bolt. It seems to me as though a lot of people look at the decklist and immediately want to cut Lightning Bolt, yet have never actually played in a tournament with the deck. No, I don't mean a tournament on IRC with Apprentice, I mean a real tournament. Some of the recommendations I read with regard to this archetype are downright hilarious.

For those who haven't noticed:

Nevinyrall's Disk + permenants != a combo

Take a moment to to think about that, and then reflect on why cards like Pyrostatic Pillar have no business in this deck.\n\n

[jhaggs]

Quote ... amongst many other advantages of Lightning Bolt. It seems to me as though a lot of people look at the decklist and immediately want to cut Lightning Bolt, yet have never actually played in a tournament with the deck. No, I don't mean a tournament on IRC with Apprentice, I mean a real tournament. Some of the recommendations I read with regard to this archetype are downright hilarious.

For those who haven't noticed:

Nevinyrall's Disk + permenants != a combo

Take a moment to to think about that, and then reflect on why cards like Pyrostatic Pillar have no business in this deck.

Well said.  Through playtesting of my own version of landstill I have come to a couple of conclusions in regards to this deck.  Due to the high volume of manlands and strips, squeezing a 3rd color into the build really takes a toll on the mana base.   I feel that you either have to choose red or white.  I personally prefer red because of the options that it gives you in the SB. Red enables the use of fire/ice which is an important card becuase it can be pitched as well as played, red also offers artifact removal, REB, and bolt (lightining bolt is a recent addition which I'm still testing...props shockwave, I never would have considered it).   Also, running with this deck do you really need white?  Swords is a house but bolt & ice can be very effective removal.  Since stifle is in the MD swords isn't a must have in the dragon matchup.  Further, since the deck runs 8 manlands it already has an ability to maximize standstill, so decree is just overkill.   Swords and Decree are great cards, but I feel they need to be dropped if the deck doesn't really lose much AND you have the opportunity to bloster your mana base by dropping a color.

The disk makes this deck viable.  It is an excellent drain target and a supreme board wiper.  Throwing permanents onto the table seems counter-intiuitive considering the disk's nature and the use of manlands.  Perms are bad, umkay.   They become simillar to dead cards in your hand considering that it's your incentative to destroy everything.

Chain of vapor is a extremely synergistic card in landstill.  Your opponent can't bounce it back to you and its a great card to use against an early wire/welder/sphere.  I am debating whether to use chains or misdirections as I have found both to be valuable in certain situations.  Currently I am running with chains because of its effectivness against mass permanent drops by my opponent early in the game where misdirection would be ineffective.

[Gaea]

In italy I saw many landstill in old meta, but they were more like keeper than more an aggressive deck, show a list:

MAIN DECK
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
3 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Cunning Wish
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Morphling
2 Sword to Plowshares
3 Standstill
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Powder Keg
1 Balance
1 Trade Routes


SIDEBOARD
1 Powder Keg
1 The Abyss
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Hydroblast
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismanting Blow
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Misdirection
4 Duress
1 Smother

This is old, so now you have to do some changes also influenced by your meta

[BreathWeapon]

Off subject, has anybody experimented with Mystic Remora with Man Land beats? It has interesting tempo applications. I'm not saying its great, just interesting.

[cssamerican]

I have played around with a 3 color version...
Lands: (25)
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
2 Island
3 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island

Blue: (20)
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

Gold: (4)
4 Fire/Ice

White: (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts: (7)
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

Sideboard: (15)
4 Serenity
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Maze of Ith
4 Tormod's Crypt

I like the plows over the bolts just because you can destroy anything from Dreadnaughts to Dragons. Because of this it is naturally strong against Dragon, and has a better game against deck with fat like Dreadnaughts. Serenity is Disk 5-8 against Workshop decks so I feel that match is better now, and I don't think the mana base is that strained, do you? Also I noticed alot of people have CotV in their sideboard, call me stupid but what is it there for? It is going to get destroyed by the Disk so why play it?

[wuaffiliate]

Quote (thefram @ Dec. 05 2003,00:05)@wu

What do you think of Pillar?

-thefram

Quote its not really a threat, its not removal, and it doesnt really stop them from casting anything. its basically a win more card, since landstill goes for the kill after control is established i think its a wasted slot.

also what rich said.