With the recent restrictings, many of the good decks get ...

[Hi-Val]

With the recent restrictings, many of the good decks get sacked, with new ones rising up. This swingy meta of course changes the impact of Misdirection, at times one of the best "counters".

With combo dying out, we have Dragon popping up to fill in the void. Stax/MUD and friends are also rising up. The problem is that none of these decks run many Misdirectable targets. Is it worth it to run MisD in the MD now? We certainly aren't where Gro was a year ago with four MisDs, and I think that the format isn't as good for the card as it was.

Sure, you can MisD dragon's Animate Dead, but why not Stifle the "leaves play" ability instead? Is Stifle the better option for the MisD spot now? It seems that the format just doesn't have the targetted spells. Even Sligh is fading out thanks to Chalice. Maybe Stifle should take the place.

[Dr. Sylvan]

This is pretty much old news. The new restrictions have basically nothing to do with the quality of Misdirection. My Fish deck has even dropped down to one copy. For several months (I'm not sure exactly how long) Misdirection has been out of Keeper. People include one sometimes for surprise value or because their meta has a place for it.

Stifle is indeed a good card, which is finding its way into various archetypes like OSE and most variants of Fish, among others.

[PucktheCat]

Quote Sure, you can MisD dragon's Animate Dead

No, you can't.  Targeting for Animate Dead and its cousins happens as part of an ability that triggers when it comes into play.  Stifle can stop it, MisD can't.

Leo

[BreathWeapon]

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Stifle is good vs EVERY deck, Misdirection is not.

[Razvan]

Hulk decks sometimes use Misdirection in their sideboard, as a cunning Wish target for some spells... Hymn to Tourach, Mind Twist, Ancestral Recall...

Other than that, it's doubtful, since it can't really stop the new combo decks... can't even hinder them.

[BreathWeapon]

I still keep the 1 MisD Sideboarded as well, it makes people think twice about the amount of damage a C.Wish can do. People are getting too froggy with Unmask

[pernicious dude]

That's fine.
Y'all drop Misdirection.
No sweat.
Then sit across the table from me and try to counter something.
You're running four Forces?
I'm running seven, next to three Stifles.
Works for me.

[Smash]

Quote (pernicious dude @ Dec. 05 2003,21:37)That's fine.
Y'all drop Misdirection.
No sweat.
Then sit across the table from me and try to counter something.
You're running four Forces?
I'm running seven, next to three Stifles.
Works for me.

You get p0wned by wmud... good work.

MisD just isn't that powerful in the environment. If you play lots of sligh and sui sure... but chalice already p0wns them.

You want it for the control mirror?\n\n

[Nova]

Nothing wrong with having 6-7 forces for the control match

[aznflict]

misdirection still has it's uses.  it shouldn't be automatically discounted out of a slot, just because stifle is available.

[Eddie]

REBlasts are probably better than misdirection in the control mirror.

[aznflict]

although, misdirecting an ancestral, mind twist, etc is SO clutch.

[Haksaw]

I think the key is that Stifle is just as conditional as Misdirection...

Dragon - Misdirect the Stroke of Genius, or Stifle the Worldgorger's leave's play ability.

Hulk - The extra counter is far more valuable than stopping Psycatog from gaining +1/+1, and heck, if you've got a blocker to wrap the Berserk on, more power to you.

WelderMUD - Stifling a Tangle Wire or Smokestack for a turn could mean the difference between life and death, while a Misdirection is going to see that there a NO spells to use the card on.

These are of course only 3 examples, but a case by case basis builds for the possible inclusion of both, possible in a sideboard balance, 2 in-2out, 3 in-no side...we'll have to see what GenCon and Origins rear back with this year.

[Milton]

Quote I think the key is that Stifle is just as conditional as Misdirection...

Dead on.  I run 3 Misdirections maindeck in my Phid build, because Misdirection helps keep the Phids alive, stifle does not.  Also, Stifle isn't very useful against Welder MUD.  If I ran maindeck Stifles I would make sure that I had cards that could swap out for the Stifles in the sideboard for Welder MUD.  Don't get me wrong, Misdirection isn't good agaisnt Welder MUD either.  But, I swap out the Misdirections for other cards.

If your deck is weak against aggro, run Misdirection.  If you want to keep your Scepter in play, for example, or you need to win the counter war, run Misdirection.  If you see a lot of Suicide or Sligh, run Misdirection.  

I tried Stifle and it just didn't work very well.  It was a little too situational.  Then again, I don't see much Dragon or Rector in my meta.  And I always thought it was kinda useless to Stifle a Fetchland when you can Wasteland what they fetch, gaining a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage.  But, sometimes Stifle on a Fetch is a good play.  In my testing I have found Stifle to be far more situational than Misdirection, though.

In the end, though, nothing sucks worse than holding two Stifles and nothing else (or two Misdirestions, for that matter) in hand as your opponent top decks Yag Will and goes off.

[Ivantheterrible]

To Halsaw I nitpick on your dragon comment. Yes if the do try to deck you out with stroke then you give them a nice fuck you with the mis-d. Most builds though run Ambassodor Laqautos these days to deck you.

I think that stifle is probably better main but that most decks wont have to worry since only fish and mono blue control and maybe UR phid would really have to think about it. Yes stifle isn' that great most of the time against mud but it is better then holding a mis-d that isn't doing anything. So I would say for those debating it run stifle over mis-d. Keep a mis-d in the board though it's always a nice wish target.

[Haksaw]

The Worldgorger into Laquatus was a problem in our area also...resulted in Nethervoid and TNT wasting a sideboard slot on Gaea's Blessing at the last tournament...only takes one in the deck and you can't be infinite milled, unless they've got a standing Withered Wretch or Tormod's Crypt.

And yes, Wasteland is better in utility...unless they get a basic land...and they can tap that land down for mana before Wasteland slays it...1 for 1 with Stifle is worth the mana denial, and you get out 1/20 up on them, as they have to pay the life as part of the activation cost.  

Which reminds me, other key points...

Nether Void - can't help against the big bad Void itself, but with the frequently played Pernicious Deed, there's nothing sweeter than when their Blow/Sac turns into Swing/Miss.  For Misdirection, you cover Hymn to Tourach, Diabolic Edict and Sinkhole...I think that Misdirection is the clear choice for this matchup.

[BreathWeapon]

Your examples are all off, I don't where to begin. First, Dragon doesn't use Stroke of Genious as its kill condition. It uses Laquatas or Sliver Queen. How does MisD help you here? Answer, it doesn't.

Stifle is NOT useless vs Workshop.dec. It; passes a turn from Smokestack, It passes a Tangle wire for a turn, it passes a sOrb/wOrb for a turn, cancels a Chalice of the Void activation, cancels a Goblin Welder activation, cancels a Metalwoker activations, cancels a Karn activation, cancels a Gorilla Shaman activation, cancels a Mind's Eye activations, cancels a Memory Jar activation,  cancels a Mindslaver activation, cancels a Powder Keg activation, cancels a Null Brooch activation, cancels a Jester's Cap activation. Uh ... did I miss anything? Oh ya, WASTELAND. I'd say Stifle is just a tad bit better here, wouldn't you agree?

Useless to Stifle a Fetch Land? Here's an idea, Stifle that Fetch Land and keep your Wasteland in play to destroy another Land when they play it. Seems simple enough to me.

So, where exactly is MisD kickin ass here? Look at the most recent Keeper deck lists, where are those MisD spells your looking for? I haven't seen a list with Mindtwist in weeks. So what are you really playing with? A card that hoses Old Mono-B Suicide and Old Ankh Sligh with a few trumps in the control match up? Hell, that really isn't hosing Aggro considering that Combo-Goblins don't care about MisD at all and B/R Suicide uses Cabal Therapy and Bloodmoon over Hymn and Sinkhole if their smart. The only good deck worth packing MD MisD for is Spoils-Mask ... thats one deck where you can expect the card to do anything other than act as an additional FoW vs Control or steal an Ancestral once in a blue moon. Oh, and its competely dead vs Prison. I guess if you play in a sub par environment absent of good Aggro and Workshops MisD is the bomb!

Sorry if that seems to read a little harsh. Its directed towards MisD and not you guys. Nobody talks trash on Stifle round me
 

[Hi-Val]

When I consider Stifle/MisD, I am thinking about Fish, what I am building to right now. The 3 Stifles maindeck can act like Strips 6-9, and that's a hefty chunk of denial. For example, "Volcanic, stifle your fetch, play wasteland, cloud, Standstill, Good Game".

I don't run Cunning Wishes in my build, which makes a 1-of MisD in the maindeck/SB not so hot either.

My evaluation is this-- MisD is potentially MUCH more ruinous. MisDing a Hymn or Ancestral wins the game. -However-, Stifle will always have a use, although it might not be as glamorous. So I think that overloading on Stifles is better than overloading on MisDs, especially with targetted spells just plain ol' leaving the meta.

[Haksaw]

Back to BreathWeapon, I'm not sure if he was referring to all of my examples, or just to Nether Void...just a review, I said:

Dragon: Need Stifle to hose the Worldgorger's leave's play ability...Misdirection is only good against Stroke of Genius, hence the note during  the second post that sideboards are starting to circulate a Gaea's Blessing to avoid Laquatus...Dragon.dec falling back to Sliver Queen.

WelderMUD/Workshop.deck: I stated that for all of the effects, Stifle is the key.  There are actually no legal targets for Misdirection in the deck.

Fetchland vs. Wasteland: Stifle the Fetch, save the Waste, I think that was pretty clear.

Nether Void: I do like the points on Cabal Therapy...I just wish there were cheaper to sac...Shade's the cheapest, so you're essentially paying BBB (but there is potential to get multiple copies).  Blood Moon...I haven't seen the deck, so I won't argue too hard, but I have to mistrust any spell that costs three in the deck that you can't Dark Ritual into.

In essence, I think Stifle's winning this debate in terms of cards that it hoses.  That's not to say that it won't have it's useless moments.  It's just that on a comparison, it costs less (B + 1 card) as opposed to Misdirection (0 + 2 cards), Stifle countering Permanents (Encantment, Artifact, Creature, Land (no-mana ability)), while Misdirection is left with Instants and Sorceries...  As it so happens, many of the really devistating effects that you don't want to happen now come in both forms, so as I stated before, the comparison is very situational.[/u]

[Nosre]

Stifle got the nod over Mis-D in my phid build for one reason and its strength in both of the most important matchups around here:  Dragon and Iso-Keeper.

My build is heavier mana-denial than most, so having strips 6-9 is a big deal.  There is also barely any sligh or suicide black around here, which eliminates a lot of traditional mis-D targets.  In fact, I see Fiery Temper more often than Lightning Bolt, and Stifle can usually counter Fiery Temper just fine (as well as Arrogant Wurm).  

It's been said already, Stifle is great vs Dragon, and is much better than Mis-D.  I don't see anyone running stroke any more, so mis-D is pretty much dead.

Against keeper, I sometimes do wish I had mis-D, but Stifle is still useful.  Its biggest use is making sure I win the wasteland war early game.  Late to middle, Stifle will counter Isochron Scepter being imprinted, and is great against the only win condition most decks around here are running:  Decree.  

All that said, I do still run Mis-D in the board for a wish target.  It definately isn't bad, just not as good these days as the most versatile spell ever printed.

[BreathWeapon]

The comments I made were directed towards Milton Haksaw, you leapt in the way before I posted and I didn't notice.

I agree with everything you say on the matter pretty much. However, despite it being situational I think that Stifle gets the universal nod over MisD in a Tier 1 meta.

Fish isn't the same story, it uses both Stifle and MisD so the slots aren't in contention with each other. Its more of a Stifle vs Daze argument for Fish, and I believe Stifle is winning out there to.

[wuaffiliate]

Quote (pernicious dude @ Dec. 06 2003,00:37)That's fine.
Y'all drop Misdirection.
No sweat.
Then sit across the table from me and try to counter something.
You're running four Forces?
I'm running seven, next to three Stifles.
Works for me.

amen.

@guy who posted after dude: Ur fish has no problem vs workshops, so much hate = pwnt. also misd helps resolve spells which is why its so good.

[xaos]

Quote (BreathWeapon @ Dec. 06 2003,17:16)Fish isn't the same story, it uses both Stifle and MisD so the slots aren't in contention with each other. Its more of a Stifle vs Daze argument for Fish, and I believe Stifle is winning out there to.

hit the nail on the head there.   got a gay/r build right now... it started 3 daze 1 MisD, but since then its become 1 daze. 2 MisD, 4 stifle maindeck.  the inclusion of the 4 stifle are gold, as has been stated before, they may not shine every single time, but for U at instant speed, theres not a more versatile card.

   use it as a strip effect when you need it(never any harm in stocking up on these, especially when it can do something else anyway), stopping the fetch, or the opponents' strip effects.
   use it to negate an upkeep prison-type effect.  the abyss, smokestack, tangle wire, Worb, among many others.  sometimes all it takes is one chance to swing these fragile matches in your favor.
   use it to save yourselves from lots of fast combo.  tendrils, dragon, and others.
use it against some damn irritating creatures.  im not talking tog or mongrel activations here.  madness creatures, welder, piledriver, sometimes youll even tap the blue mage out with no more mana to activate 'phlings untargetability(this has won me at least a game before).
   use it to stop things that are 'uncounterable', decree of justice(and other cycling triggers), storm spells,comes into play triggers, leaves play triggers, etc

misd has its great merits in helping thru the counterwar, ancestral recall, the occasional stroke, swords, vindicate, sinkhole, etc.  but the strength in a lot of todays decks is in non-targeting, so this doesnt shine as brightly before.

all in all, id have to say, if you have to make the cut nowadas, id choose stifle over MisD 3 to 1

[Smash]

Quote (wuaffiliate @ Dec. 06 2003,15:33)@guy who posted after dude: Ur fish has no problem vs workshops, so much hate = pwnt. also misd helps resolve spells which is why its so good.

Not really.. I played 2 ur fish at gencon with stax, went 2-0 vs. both of them. They both had 3-4 energy flux and racks. *shrug*

[Tripps]

I cut MisD for Stifle in my Gay/r(And yes, I kept 3 Daze, they are >>>>> MisD). I think almost every deck is cuttign MisD for Stifle.

[pernicious dude]

Yesterday round one in Brockton,
at a point where I was viciously colored-mana-screwed,
Grand Inquisitor Stifled my fetchland.
In response, I Wasted a land of his and,
you guessed it,
MisD-ed the Stifle.

Granted, he had the counter for my MisD,
and kicked my ass once again,
but he's just like that.

Care to try to Stifle a MisD?

[BreathWeapon]

Xaos, you forgot one of THE most important aspects of Stifle in U/r Fish ... it can cancel the Imprint ability of Isochron Scepter when it comes into play. Scepter doesn't look soo good now for a 2T activation cost to masterbate, w00t.

Stifle4Life

@Pernicous Dude, thats like ... one of the most pathetic arguments for MisD over Stifle ever. If the opponents wants to give up 2 Cards and a Wasteland for a color source PLEASE be my guest. Its like Stifle > Ancestral!\n\n

[pernicious dude]

Oops.
Apparently I left out the smiley face.
I just thought it was a really funny play.
The way it's supposed to go is I activate my Factory,
and MisD the Stifle to that,
but I had to work with what I had on hand.

And, actually, at that point in that game,
I'd have been totally delighted to trade a Wasteland and two cards for a colored source.
I had plenty of cards, and he had plenty of lands.

Back on topic.
I like them both, and am running three each main in my current deck.