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Author Topic: I'm not a fan of net decks.  They are nice, but I won...  (Read 1917 times)
Uber Soldat
Guest
« on: December 12, 2003, 04:02:10 pm »

I'm not a fan of net decks.  They are nice, but I won't play them.  Why?  My favorite part of Magic is thinking up somthing wierd and making a deck out of it- I need to have my own spin on things.  So here goes my twist on the artifact deck.


Mudslide:
(1 part kaluha, 1 part baily's, 1 part absolut vodka)

Black
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Red
4 Goblin Welder

Artifact
1 Black Lotus
4 Grafted Skullcap
1 Grim Monolith
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Metalworker
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
1 Time Vault

Land
4 Badlands
2 Bloodstaind Mire
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Helm of Obeidience
1 Mindslaver
3 Powder Keg
1 Triskelion
1 Winter Orb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Petrified Field
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BaronSengir
Guest
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2003, 11:03:37 pm »

It actually looks really good soldat.

Given the choice, I wouldn't run glimmer voids. Its bad enough as it is, but turning Mox Monkey into a Land-D critter from the pits of Hell is not good

Your also missing Karn  

Hows your playtesting been going? Black certainly seems pretty strong for duress, tutors, and the handy utility entomb, and you still run 4x of the "lock" so I wouldn't worry about there

Also, consider Mind's Eye VS. Grafted.

You'll also need more red sources (you only have 5, 4x glimmer 1x mox) all of which are rapable by Mox Monkey, to cast your welder
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Jakedasnake
Guest
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2003, 11:29:46 pm »

Glimmervoids are a no-no. 4 Badlands would be much stronger, and I would definitely dump the Volrath's Stronghold and Petrified Field for a basic Swamp and Mountain, and possibly the Tolarian Academy for a Bloodstained Mire. You definitely need this stability.

Winter Orb is okay, but I'd definitely have another win condition, Karn just kicks ass.  

Vampiric Tutor isn't much needed, the deck is very repetetive. Once again, maybe make this another Karn.

I'm not a big fan of Time Vault, the card just isn't great IMO. I would drop that and the 4th Duress (4 seems like too many when you will often spend your first turn laying a lock card) for 2 Powder Keg, which are excellent right now.

The deck is pretty unique, good work.
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Kinarus
Guest
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2003, 02:40:18 am »

A thought: Cabal Therapy can be Entombed for, it hits twice if it's from your hand, and Welders make sacrificing an artifact creature painless. I also don't like the Grim Monolith, but that might be from playing too much Extended.

-Kinarus
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Uber Soldat
Guest
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2003, 09:30:13 pm »

ack, i forgot one of the most important parts!

My entire theory behind MUD, especially this build, is play out your hand fast and establish a lock faster.  One of the ways I was able to pull out a win late game was with a card I managed to leave out of the list I posted up!    

After reading some comments and doing some (more) reading in the Vintage Type 1 Forum, I'll agree with the comment about Duress.  Knocking it down to 3 is just logical for this deck, because Wanting to play out your opening hand turn 1 and needing certain color mana is not always the best thing.  

The card I left out was Yawgmoth's Will aka YawgWIN.  I the version I run it is pure gold, allowing you to gain back a rather large ammount of lost artifacts that left by way of the smokestack.  

One other concept that I left out of the first post was an idea not taken too kindly by many people I submitted it to.  

In the version I currently run, I am only using 3 welders.  Now, I know what you are thinking (WHAT THE HELL!?), but bear with me for a moment.  

Like I said, the idea is to play out fast.  Now welders are obviously always a good thing, but with the stronghold I can get a recursion engine of welders going if they start dying off.  Not only that, but if I knock it down it will be less of a chance of pulling it early on and needing the red mana.  

So the changes are:
Duress out for Yawgmoth's Will
Welder out for Karn
4 Glimmervoid out for 4 Badlands

I would like to add in at least 1 or 2 bloodstained mires into the deck, and i am considering taking out either the Academy or the Field, but I like both of them in there.  Any other suggestions for what to remove?
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The Advantage
Guest
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2003, 11:46:28 pm »

You only run 1 Stronghold(not that I think its a good idea to run at all) so you really can't depend on getting it active to recur your Welders; it is also useless against StP.  Workshop decks thrive on Welders...I think it is a blatant mistake to run fewer than four....they are integral to the deck.

Now that thats out of the way, I also agree with 2 Karn, and I think space can be found by dropping the rather randon single Winter Orb and Triskelion.  They both have a place against certain decks, but running one of each main sacrifices redundancy.  You wont ever draw the one you need when you need it...a deck like this just doesnt have enough tutoring power.

This could be the extended player in me talking, but Mindslaver is insane.  Mindslaver+Welder is game over for all intents and purposes.  I think it is to strong to be in the sideboard, as it is a lock mechanism and a kill.

Will is incredible, no one can argue that, but it will need to prove itself in a deck with no tutoring power(sorry, DT just isnt enough to find this consistently when you need it and I also dont think Vamp is needed).

Speaking of tutoring power....have you tried Gamble instead of Entomb??  I'm going to be testing Gambles main and am curious to see anyone else's experiences with it.

When looking for space to fit Mires, Stronghold is the first card that gets cut.  Field is great if you see tons of strip effects, but if you dont, I can see cutting it.  Thats at least one Mire, possibly two.
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Uber Soldat
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2003, 11:19:26 pm »

Considering what was just said, I am adding a few more modifications to the deck... While I agree that the deck does not contain as much tutoring as I would prefer, I think you underestimate the deck's drawing power, Advantage.

These decks "redundant" aspect is to force a draw-go effect on your opponent if they want it to not.  Simply by locking down the entire board, and with you easily drawing 3+ then 4+ cards a turn with the skullcaps, the deck can easily run out of things to draw.  When this happens, the entire deck either has A) been played, or B) is in my graveyard...

In other words, cards that there are only one copy of do tend to come up.  With the the small ammount of tutoring that there is, it is more rare to NOT get what I want then to find it.  This is the main reason for so many single cards, the deck gets run through pretty fast, so everything comes up in a short ammount of time.

--------------------------------

With that out of the way, I'll still entertain the idea of even greater redundancy in the deck.  

Winter Orb --> Mindslaver
Triskelion --> Goblin Welder
Stronghold --> Bloodstained Mire
Petrified Field --> Bloodstained Mire

I have played plenty of games with gamble, and it looks like it could fit into the deck, but I have my doubts.  The problem with gamble is that if it can screw you by making you dump the wrong card, it usually will.  

When going for consistancy, the less effects left to random luck, the better.  (I guess this is why most coin-flipping cards are so unpopular...)    For this reason alone, I think it would be a bit safer to keep a card like vamp or entomb which gives you one set effect that you know will happen, rather then a chance effect you have to cross your fingers on.  

Even taking into consideration that any card discarded could be brought back with a welder providing its an artifact... the idea is that there are situations where you might by chance pull 2 tutors, a tutor and a will, a tutor and a duress, etc, and they will want to be played in a certain order.  In that event, I would much rather have a demonic and an entomb over 2 gambles or a mix...

I am considering the value of only having the Field in the sideboard.  This deck packs tons of lands for wastelands to go after, so having at least 1 workshop and 1 badlands to play what I need shouldnt be too much of a problem.  When a Dust Bowl shows up, thats when I could use some extra help.

-------------------------

Some manipulation has been done to the Sideboard as well, let me know what you think...
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