It seems that there is a great deal of strain on budget p...

[centroles]

congratulations on your win.

and thanks so much for posting all that.

i'm going to update your decklist to the one you just posted since you had success with it.

but if you were to post an updated decklist of what you would play now based on your experience with your cards at the tourney, i would happily post that list instead.

thx again

[centroles]

Necrologia, I'm going to temporarily delete the Rectorless Long decklist until you post an updated one.

Your decklist is pretty good but the original post is getting too bulky and it seems as though many people are having success with budget long builds without using force of wills even in chalice heavy metagames. Thus the card seems largely unneccesary.

[Crater Hellion]

There isn't a good Sligh deck here. Maybe dryad sligh? I highlight that deck in my article on SCG.\n\n

[centroles]

please link me to it and i'll definately post it. same applies to anyone else who is upset that I left off any one of many viable budget deck from my post.

[centroles]

I deleted bebe's old decks from the original post. This means there are a lot of budget deck lists like parfait that I desperately need. Please post them. For reference, here's what I deleted.


The below lists are all taken directly from Bebe's thread and thus all the decklists below need to be adjusted with post Mirrodian's tech such as Ishoran's Spectar, Chalice of the Void, Spoils of the Vault, Chrome Mox, and Bazaar of Bagdad. They are rather old and thus hardly competitive in the current meta. So I'll classify them as Tier Four for now until they recieve the neccesary tech updates.

Tier Four

Dicemanx's Worldgorger Dragon

Utility
4 Buried Alive
1 Entomb
4 Animate Dead
3 Dance of the Dead
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Aerial Caravan

Tutor
3 Read the Runes
3 Intuition
2 Cunning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Disruption
4 Duress
4 Defense Grid

Mana
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Crypt
9 Swamp
1 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Rushing River
1 Read the Runes
2 Tormad's Crypt
4 Powder Keg
4 Phyrexian Negator
2 Hypnotic Specter

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Bebe and Razor's Cherry Parfait

Utility
4 Argivian Find
4 Orim's Chant
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God
2 Replenish
1 Balance
1 Enlightened Tutor

Enchantments
4 Land Tax
2 Sacred Mesa
2 Aura of Silence
2 Humility
1 Story Circle
1 Blood Moon
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Ivory Mask

Artifacts      
3 Scroll Rack
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Zuran Orb
1 Claws of Gix

Mana
13 Plains
3 Mountain
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Marble Diamond

Sideboard
2 Light of Day
1 Aura of Silence
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Jester's Cap
2 Abolish
2 Abeyance
2 Blood Moon
2 Karmic Justice
1 Replenish

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PsychoCid's Cheaper Keeper

Utility
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing

Critters
1 Spike Feeder
1 Spike Weaver
1 Morphling

Disruption
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Leak
2 Duress
1 Balance

Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
1 Skeletal Scrying

Mana
1 Sol Ring
2 City of Brass
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland

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Bebe's Monoblue

Mana
13 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring

Critters
3 Shoreline Ranger
2 Control Magic
1 Masticore

Draw
4 Ophidian
4 Brainstorm  
1 Fact or Fiction

Disruption
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Stifle
1 MisD
3 Powder Keg
2 Back to Basics

Sideboard
4 Energy Flux
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Cursed Totem
2 Misdirection
1 Back to Basics
1 Control Magic
1 Nevy's Disk

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Arthur Tindeman's Budget Void

Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Bayou
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Strip Mine
7 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Sol Ring
1 Charcoal Diamond

Disruption
4 Sinkhole
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Nether Void (Can replace with Call of the Herd for a cheaper more aggresive build.)
2 Powder Keg

Draw/Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth´s Will
1 Necropotence

Critters
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Mishra's Factory

Sideboard
3 Tormad's Crypt
3 Defense Grid
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Powder Keg
2 Choke
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Vampiric Tutor

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Phantom Tape Wurm's Fish

Critters
4 Rootwater Thief
4 Manta Riders
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Cloud of Faeries

Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
3 Null Rod
2 Stifle
1 Psionic Blast

Draw
4 Standstill
4 Curiosity

Mana
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
10 Island

Sideboard
3 Legacy's allure
3 Psionic Blast
3 Disrupt
3 Energy Flux
3 Maze of Ith

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Legend's Ankh Sligh

Artifact
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Cursed Scroll
1 Black Vise

Critters
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Jackal Pup

Utility
1 Fork

Burn
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate

Mana
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
16 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Goblin Vandal

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Spevak's Stompy

Pump
4 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
4 Bounty of the Hunt

Critters
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Druid Lyrist
4 Hidden Gibbons

Mana
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
12 Forest
 
Sideboard
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden Herd
4 Rushwood Legate
3 Null Rod

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Bebe's High Tide

Mana
14 Island
4  Ancient Tomb
3 City of traitors
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring

Utility
4 High Tide
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Snap
2 Palinchron
1 Brain Freeze

Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Draw/Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Meditate
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Cunning Wish
1 Frantic Search
1 Time Spiral

Sideboard
3 Back to Basics
2 Energy Flux
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Brain Freeze
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Snap
3 Blue Elemental Blast

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Counter Sliver

Mana
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Savannah
      
Draw
4 Brainstorm
2 Sylvan Library
2 Mnemonic Sliver

Utility
3 Swords to Plowshares      
3 Root Maze
2 Aura of Silence

Disruption      
4 Force of Will
4 Meddling Mage

Critters
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Winged Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver

Sideboard
3 Seal of Cleansing
3 Sliver Knight
2 Sacred Ground
2 True Believer
2 Victual Sliver
2 Maze of Ith
1 Swords to Plowshares

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Bebe's Brought Sui

Critters
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Phyrexian Negator
3 Call of the Herd

Disruption
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed

Utility
4 Unearth

Draw/Tutor
2 Sylvan Library
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Regrowth

Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
9 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Smother
3 Naturalize
3 Withered Wretch
3 Null Rod
2 Spiritmonger
1 Pernicious Deed
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BilltheDuck's Finkeltron

Critters
4 Meddling Mage
4 Shadowmage Infiltrator
3 Withered Wretch
1 Psychatog
1 Shoreline Ranger

Disruption
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

Draw/Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor

Disruption
2 Sword to Plowshore
1 Vindicate

Mana
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Sol Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine

Sideboard
3 Seal of Clenasing
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Null Rod
2 Sword to Plowshore
2 Exalted Angel
1 Balance
1 Vampiric Tutor

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European Stompy

Critters
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Hidden Guerillas
3 Quirion Ranger
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Savannah Lions
4 Skyshroud Elite

Pump
3 Giant Growth
4 Rancor

Mana
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Utility
4 Wax/Wane
3 Swords to Plowshore

Mana
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Forest

Sideboard
1 Absolute Grace
3 Absolute Law
2 Choke
1 COP: Black
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Null Rod
2 Serenity
2 Swords to Plowshore
1 Tsabo's Web

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Ian's Gobbo Combo

Critters
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Raging Goblin
3 Seige Gang Commander

Utility/Burn
1 Timewalk (Price of Progress)
1 Ancestral Recall (Price of Progress)
4 Lightning Bolts
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Reckless Charge

Mana
1 Mox Ruby (Mountain)
1 Black Lotus (Lotus Petal)
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Mountains
1 Volcaninc Island
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
4 Null Rod
4 Scald
4 Rack and Ruin
3 Blood Moon

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Michael Heiduk's New Suicide

Utility
3 Null Rod
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
4 Sinkhole
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Hymn to Tourach

Critters
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hyponotic Specter
3 Phyrexian Negator
3 Withered Wretch

Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
18 Swamps

Sideboard
3 Powder Keg
2 Planar Void
2 Masticore
2 Dystopia
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Contagion
2 Chains of Mephistopheles

[centroles]

bump, doesn't anyone have any more decklists they would like me to add to this thread?

buget parfait perhaps?

[Necrologia]

I did indeed get around to tweaking my Long decklist over the weekend. Here's what I came up with:

//Protection
   4 Duress
   1 Chain of Vapor
   1 Hurkyl's Recall
//Broken/Draw
   4 Brainstorm
   1 Windfall
   1 Wheel of Fortune
   1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
   1 Necropotence
   1 Mind's Desire
   1 Memory Jar
   1 Tinker
//Tutors
   4 Burning Wish
   4 Spoils of the Vault
   1 Vampiric Tutor
   1 Demonic Consultation
   1 Demonic Tutor
   1 Mystical Tutor
//Mana
   4 Gemstone Mine
   4 Glimmervoid
   1 Tolarian Academy  
   4 Chrome Mox
   4 Dark Ritual
   4 Lion's Eye Diamond
   4 Chromatic Sphere
   1 Mox Diamond
   1 Grim Monolith
   1 Mana Crypt
   1 Mana Vault
   1 Lotus Petal
   1 Sol Ring

Sideboard:
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Pyroblast
3 Overload
1 Simplify
1 Primitive Justice

What it essentially boils down to is that Spoils of the Vault clashes with Academy Rector. Rector is there to get Bargain out, but Spoils can easily remove Bargain and/or Necro from the game, or simply cost you enough life that once Bargains in play you still can’t win.

The Rector approach definitely has some merit, but for now at least I’m going with the Spoils approach. It’s more consistent as it has room for the full 4x Brainstorm, and well as 4x Chromatic Spheres. Not to mention the Spoils that can help you set up a Sphere/Brainstorm/LED play, or simply grab the winning Wish. Another significant advantage is that you can run Duress over the vastly inferior Cabal Therapy. Therapy’s a great card, it’s just that in a deck with next to no chance of flashing it back, or ever using it after a Duress, it’s going to miss more often than not.

The only thing that's really out of the ordinary is the Hurkyl's Recall. This deck has only 2 real fears, Sphere of Resistance and Chalice Set at x=1. The other guy can drop as many Chalices at 0 as he wants, there are only a few hands where it's really going to matter. A Chalice at 1 cuts off most of the acceleration, the better part of the tutors, and most importantly, the deck's standard answer, Chain of Vapor. By running a Hurkyl's main, you've got 6 chances at a card to save you. The Recall, the 4 Wishes, and Demonic Tutor. If, however, you don't see any Chalices at all, it's a viable option to replace the Recall with a 2nd Chain. It's the better solution against Sphere, and random stuff like Meddling Mage.

[Crater Hellion]

edit: see other posts

[BreathWeapon]

A few budget thoughts,

Can we really classify decks with Manadrain and Bazaar as budget? It seems completely outlandish to presume these decks are in the range of the average Joe's pocket change. These aren't budget decks, they are powerless decks ... and there is a big difference. IMO, the most expensive card in any budget deck should be the Dual Lands

Has anyone tried a budget Dutch Tendril's deck with 4 Diminishing Returns and 4 Death Wish  Frankly, the idea sounds completely insane ... but i've seen it work. If I remember correctly, it started as a gag deck for 1.5 and evolved into budget T1. At a guess,

4xForce of Will
4xDuress

4xDiminishing Returns
4xDeath Wish

4xBrainstorm
4xDark Ritual

2xTendril's of Agony

1xMemory Jar
1xTinker
1xWindfall
1xDemonic Tutor
1xDemonic Consulation
1xVampiric Tutor
1xMystical Tutor

4xLion's Eye Diamond
4xChrome Mox
1xMana Vault
1xMana Crypt
1xSol Ring
1xMox Diamond
1xLotus Petal


SB
1xYawgmoth's Will
1xTenril's of Agony

On a more serious note, Spoils of the Vault made B/U Trix worth looking at.

"Trix B/U"

Disruption

4xForce of Will
4xDuress

Tutor/Search

4xBrainstorm
4xSpoils of the Vault
1xDemonic Tutor
1xDemonic Consultation
1xVampiric Tutor
1xMystical Tutor
1xNecropotence
1xYawgmoth's Will

Kill

4xIllusions of Grandeur
4xDonate
2xRushing River

Mana

1xManavault
1xManacrypt
1xSol Ring
1xLotus Petal
4xDark Ritual
5xFetch Land
4xUnderground Sea
5xIsland
5xSwamp

[Chaos Blade]

I have 2 decks that are really interesting me...well 3   Gay Red which im already building, a Mono Black reanimator which is a heavily remodeled version of the Barcelona one without Bazaars, and GW Stompy. I think those decks are most likely one of the best decks with Dragon for a budget player.

Damn they need to lower the pricces on Bazaar!!!!!!

[Comrade Seraph]

A question that interests me which seems relevant to this thread... why do budget deck makers insist on acting like they are teching out for a fully powered metagame? Yes, for some people it makes sense; but most of us live far away from the centers of T1 and are lucky to have seen power a few times in our lives. I'd be interested in seeing in this thread or another discussion of what decks are *not* viable in a powered meta, but are in a mostly unpowered environment.

Does that seem reasonable? Or is my meta just uniquely bad? =P

[morphon]

Well, comrade - Prozen Tides usually does well in an unpowered scrub meta, as does Parfait (which can run unpowered - most of its stuff is 1cc).

ProzenTides (very rough decklist - please alter it before you play it):

4x High Tide
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Snap
2x Turnabout
1x Frantic Search

1x Force of Will
3x Disrupt

3x Prosperity
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Impulse
1x Merchant Scroll
4x Opt
2x Brain Freeze
2x Brainstorm

24x Island

It can deck the opponent on turn 3-4. That is kinda an eternity by Dragon and Long standards, but against random aggro decks or land-d (which always seems to pop up in unpowered metagames), turn 3-4 is lightning quick. The final turn lasts a LONG time, so expect people to hate you if you play this one.

As for Parfait, I'll leave that to people who know far more than me on how it runs.

Russ

[centroles]

thank you for contributing to this thread by sharing your own decklists. I'll add them in in a bit.

i'm very interesting in trying out U/B Trix and spoiled long, i do however know for a fact that budget versions of rector trix also do very well. i would be interested in someone with more experience can post such a list.

I completely understand your point about mana drains and bazaars being out of budget range. this is why i linked to a whole thread discussing alternate options to using bazaar for dragon. and mana drains are by no means a neccesity. they can replaced with a counterspell by any deck that doesn't run morphling without losing too much.

all of these decks will do very very well in an unpowered scrubby metagame. and the reason for this is because they're designed to have a small chance in even fully powered good metagames.

[Sytupal]

Here's a version of "Chalice Black" that does really well in almost all metagames.

Mana Production

16 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus(proxy)
1 Mox Jet(Proxy)
1 Sol Ring

Strip Effect/Mana Production

1 Strip Mine
4 Waste Land

Strip Effect/Control

4 Sinkhole

Control

4 COTV
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

Creature/Control

4 Withered Wretch

Creatures

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Phyrexian Negator


Restricted Goodness

Demonic Tutor
Yawgwin
Mind Twist
Necropotence

Sideboard:

2 Masticore
2 Powder Keg
3 Null Rod
2 Planar Void
4 Contagion
2 Cursed Totem


It's been subdivided and subdivided after that if you couldn't tell.  Does well. It should be rather self explainatory, if there are any questions PM's or replies are always good and i will read them.

[Crater Hellion]

I think optimal "sui" right now is pretty far from that. I'd do:
-1 wretch
-1 chalice
-1 mind twist (yuck!)
-8 Swamp
+4 Bloodstained Mire
+4 Badlands
+3 Rack and Ruin

Well, maybe not 3 rack and ruin maindeck, but red strengthens this deck so unbelieveably much. Mud, one of the toughest matchups, is that much better. SB options are carazy too.

[Sytupal]

strong manabase.   Bad badlands, bad.  That weakens other matches.  in certain metagames isn't one better off knowing that mud is an awful matchup but also knowing that Keeper and long and others are good matchups?

[centroles]

I updated my post again. Two very strong decks that I unfortunately had to remove included...

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Avi's Red Rock

Mana
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
4 Taiga
3 Forest
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mountain

Critters
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 River Boa
4 Call of the Herd
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Spiritmonger

Disruption
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Naturalize

Search
3 Living Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sideboard
1 Dustbowl
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Spiritmonger
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Maze of Ith
4 Red Elemental Blast

This deck's main limitation is that it lacks speed in the form of cards like Chrome Mox and Sol Ring.


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Vikram Vaka's Rocky Chains

Mana
4 Bayou
4 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring

Critters
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Multani's Acolyte
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Priest of Gix
4 Phyrexian Negator or Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Spiritmonger

Utility
4 Food Chains
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence

Sideboard
1 Spiritmonger
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Naturalize
3 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void

This deck is still in early experimental stages. But it has already proven itself to have a lot of potential with a perfect balance of speed and disruption. It's main problem right now is the mana base but I'm confident that with a little more tweaking, it can be quite competitive.

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[centroles]

for those of you that haven't checked it yet, i completely rehauled the original post.

only the best decks are included and the lists are damn close to optimal. i've also had the chance to play around with all of them and they are all powerhouses.

check out the original thread and then post your ideas on further optimizing the lists.

[centroles]

the decklists are close to optimal. but this doesn't mean I don't still need your help in optimizing them. please post suggestions etc.

[centroles]

sorry double post. look below.

[centroles]

Phantom Tape Wurm

Quote Type 1 should be combo, and combo hate, period.  And if you take a close look at the current decks to beat, I think you'll find that is exactly the case.  If you want a breakdown of the metagame ala the old "rock, paper, scissors" you first have to start by classifiying each deck by whether they are themselves combo, or combo hate.

Fish: combo hate
chalice keeper: combo hate
Long.dec: combo
dragon: combo
workshop: combo + combo hate

Basically, every deck that is neither combo, nor combo hate, has become unviable and has dropped off the metagame and cannot seriously be considered to be a deck to beat.

[BreathWeapon]

One minor note on U/B Spoils Trix, it is currently one of the only viable Combo decks that doesn't use the grave yard. Avoiding Hate is an important point to make when considering why you would want to play U/B Spoils Trix over Rector versions.

-BW

[centroles]

edited in your comment.

[centroles]

any suggestions on the gay ru fish build

[Crater Hellion]

breath weapon, are you sure you came up with that trix deck by yourself? it is strikingly similar to mine.. even the formatting..  

[BreathWeapon]

Quote (Crater Hellion @ Nov. 30 2003,08:58)breath weapon, are you sure you came up with that trix deck by yourself? it is strikingly similar to mine.. even the formatting..  

@Crater Hellion

Yes, it is my version of B/U Trix. Its not terribly difficult to build any combo deck with 4 Spoils of the Vault, and Illusions/Donate seemed like the most logical deck for the inclusion of Spoils. Despite the theme of our decks being the same, Trix with Spoils, they are completely different builds. PM me if you wish to carry on this conversation.

@Centrols

I believe you could visit PTW's thread and find an effective U/R Fish deck there. The builds are up in the air at the moment, Stifle vs Daze and the appropriate creature base are daunting questions to be solved.

My personal budget build is,

U/R

Creatures

4xCloud of Faeries
4xFlying Men
4xWaterfront Bouncer
4xGrim Lavamancer

Draw

4xStandstill
4xCuriousity

Control

4xForce of Will
2xMisdirection
4xStifle
3xNull Rod

Land

4xMishra's Factory
4xFaerie Conclave
1xStrip Mine
4xWasteland
4xFetch Lands
4xVolcanic Island
2xIsland

Edit: Red Sources are Tech

Waterfront Bouncer is awesome Tech vs Dragon and Madness. Stifle > Daze.

[wuaffiliate]

do you only cast lavamancer when they cast a bloodmoon? lol

[PhOeNiX]

Quote (wuaffiliate @ Nov. 30 2003,13:05)do you only cast lavamancer when they cast a bloodmoon? lol

lol

That's a major "OOPS" I guess

[BreathWeapon]

Whoops, edited out the all Island U/R Fish secret tech.

[centroles]

I meant, what do you think of the fish builds i included?