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Author Topic: MaRo more or less states that currently type 1 requires p...  (Read 2124 times)
centroles
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« on: December 15, 2003, 01:07:21 pm »

MaRo more or less states that currently type 1 requires power cards to be a competitive in. And as long as this is the case and there simply aren't enough power cards to go around. And as long as this is the case, Wizards will NEVER be able to throw more support behind type 1!!!

Quote
Quote The availability issue is one of the biggest sticklers of Type I. On a global scale, there’s just not that many Black Lotuses. And with our reprint policy, this just isn’t going to change. I’ll talk more about this in the next section.

So basically, in order for type one flourish, there have to be more cards that reduce the effectiveness or the need for expensive power cards.

In addition, MaRo asks us to present ideas for the kinds of cards that would "force players to adapt..., to challenge old assumptions and forge in new directions.

I say we give him just that. The kinds of cards that without screwing up standard or extended would reduce the need for power cards, the efficency/reliability of them and in short make type 1 more accesible to more people so that it can get the support and recognition it deserves.

The suggestions can take one of many approaches...

Suggestions for cards aimed directly at power similar to Null Rod and Chalice of the Void but more useful against more decks than Null Rod and more effective at stopping power than Chalice of the Void.

Suggestions for cheap, nonbroken but effective card drawers for all the colors, not just blue.

Suggestions for cheap nonbroken mana accelerants like Chrome Mox. The failure for Long.dec, the deck most reliant on mana acceleration, to play Chrome Mox, proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that for fully powered players, they have all the acceleration they need in even the most mana hungry combo decks. Chrome Mox in essence was only useful for budget decks as an alternative to power. No power deck bothered to supplement the power with Chrome Mox, it was simply unneeded. So perhaps such an approach would work as well.

Suggestions for more powerful artifact hate cards. Perhaps global artifact hosers similar to the current slew of global nonbasic hosers (Price of Progress, Blood Moon etc.) but not merely restricted to red. This would certainly force the current slew of Workshop based decks to evolve as well without forcing Mishra's Workshop to get a restriction. I think this is by far the most viable strategy.
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Crater Hellion
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2003, 01:19:15 pm »

I've been thinking about these for a while, and if they were restricted pre-emptively they wouldn't be overly broken. They would screw up t2 though.. so either banning or printing in another t1-only set are the options.

Red mini lotus 0cc
legendary artifact
sac: add RR to your mana pool

every deck would obviously use 1 on color "mini lotus", but after that, are they just worse than mana crypt? Maybe if they came into play tapped..
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cssamerican
Guest
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2003, 01:30:01 pm »

Poor Man's Mox
Color= Artifact  
Type= Artifact  
Cost= 0  
Text : As long as this is in play, players can only play one artifact per turn; {Tap}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.  

Prison hoser, Combo hoser, and mana accelerator for budget players all in one. It would make mono-blue control pretty strong, but it is easy to fix that...Just print some effecient creatures, or some good color dependent man lands like Treetop Village that do not come into play tapped. They will probably never print anything like this though, or as soon as they did they would restrict it on "Principal"

Edit: And if you are worried about the other formats just make it come into play tapped.
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Ric_Flair
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2003, 01:31:04 pm »

I think this entire thread is better had in the Fantasy Card Forum.  In fact, the impetus behind that Forum is to do what Maro asked.  Look and post there before adding to this repetitive and unnecessary thread.
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cssamerican
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2003, 01:41:59 pm »

Ric_Flair: Only members can post in the Fantasy Card Forum, so that is not an option for some of us. Not to mention, this is more of a what one card could allow budget players to compete with power players without a real bennifit for powered players. And that one card can not have a huge impact other formats. Maybe if we can get a consensus on what that one card could be, we could have a large community bassically asking for that card to be printed. I relize it will probably never happen, but   asked for it, and I would mind sending him 500 emails from 500 different people asking for one card to be printed...It is a win win situation.
 
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Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2003, 01:47:37 pm »

Any mana accelerants even roughly on par with Moxen will be comboriffic. Friggin' Lotus Petal is broken. Elvish Spirit Guide is working its way into combo decks. All fast mana except Mox Diamond is broken and there's no way to stop it. Also, any new efficient card-drawing will be added to combo, regardless of color (I don't even know if GGG would be big enough disincentive for a draw-seven). Any assistance to other archetypes is secondary when the combo manabase is already five-color on the first turn every time.

Chalice of the Void is already "counter all Power after now" for zero mana accessible to every deck. Yet it isn't good enough to make the cut in many budget decks. REB and Pyroblast can fight off Mana Drains and Ancestrals all day, but they are sideboard cards and are better in control than anything else. I feel like such a doomsayer this morning, but if those aren't good enough, you can't print a hoser that actually is viable.

The fundamental message of my post is that printing additional powerful cards is inherently going to be bad for the format and printing cards in an attempt to neuter past mistakes does not have much chance of success past what is already available. As usual, there are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.

@Ric_Flair: TMD Users cannot post in the FCC.
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jhaggs
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2003, 01:52:48 pm »

I have mentioned this idea for a card before (and I believe that V.G.B. was the first), that a possible card would be one that countered restricted cards OR making a new type rule which limited the number of restircted cards that a deck could have.  So the card may look something like:

Restriction counter  UU (or even white)
instant
Look through opponent's library.  If you cannot find another copy of target spell, that spell in countered.

Also I think a rule that restricted the amount of restricted cards would be ideal at 7.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2003, 02:18:14 pm »

TMD users can't post in the FCC, but trying to duplicate that forum in one thread is simply unworkable. If you feel that you really have an innovative new card, PM a member and get them to post it for you in that forum. This isn't the place for it, though.
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