Well my fellow Vintage Fanatics, I am in dire need of som...

[Hunted Wumpus]

Well my fellow Vintage Fanatics, I am in dire need of some advise, hopfully from somone who has delt w/ this deck directly. Ive got about  3 weeks behind playtesting. All the while ive been messing with my creature base, and sideboard creatures. Here is my present build

Nether Void

6 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
4 Nantuko Shade
2 Withered Wretch
3 Blurred Mongoose

Sideboard
2 Phyrexian Negator
3 Masticore
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Diabolic Edict
4  Naturalize

So the Creature base. 4 Shade is pretty mandatory, in general i think they are better than Negator. Which usually has a mainboard slot. Withered Wretch has come to be Shade's right hand man. He beats like a champ, and eats graveyards mainboard. That ablility reamians very deadly to Keeper, Anything with Welder, combo and others. Now as you have seen Hypnotic Spectre is no loger in deck at all. Blurred mongoose has taken his position. Lets look at the debate. They both beat with 2 power. The major differece lies in how they effect your opponent. Hippie once on the board makes them loose a card with nowadays generally large handsizes. In addition Void packs 4 Hymn and 4 Duress for discard and disruption. Mongoose always hits the table, he can't be countered. Once he's on the table, the usual fire/ice, swords to plowshares, smother, and burn, all very common forms of removal useless against the untargetable little guy. This forces opponents to use either edicts, or a huge spell like poweder keg, and pernicious deed. Deed, and keg will also kill off moxen of your opponent and maybe a mox monkey or somtin.

So what do you all think. Give my any criticism and thoughts you have.

Thanks All

[DEA]

i like the blurred mongoose thing
very nice, it is
would work with scragnoths and root slivers too, heheh
thought about using treetop villages?
the forseeable problem is that they cipt and you wouldn't want to have too many of them
they'd be fine under void tho, and 3/3 beats 2/1
unless it's a 2/1 B: +1/+1

[colder]

I've looked at the Mongoose in the past, and never thought it'd be effective enough in the deck, for the reason that it's never good in the late-game.  That, plus it makes the control player (read: everyone else) keep their counters for things like Sinkholes or Hymns, things you DO NOT want that person to do.  Nether Void is about disruption, and Mongoose does not provide nor aid that.

However, that being said, I can see this being the case:

(By turns)
1) Bayou, Mox, Ritual, Void
2) Mongoose

This would be a nice thing to pull off, but I've personally questioned its effectiveness.  I still use both Negators and Specters as creatures for these reasons:

1) Equally quick to come out (usually start dealing damage 2nd-3rd turn)
2) One does mad damage
3) One causes discard & disruption
4) Specters are often counter-bait, which helps thin out an opponent's hand even if it gets toasted; Mongoose keeps their counters at bay and waits for a REAL threat (like a bigger creature)
5) Withered Wretch is more of a sideboard card; you don't ALWAYS face graveyard recursion (unless that's your local meta).  You would be replacing Hymn To Tourach with it when sideboarding instead of Hippies (since Hymn would help them more rather than hinder)
6) Chalice for 3 is less common early on than Chalice for 2.  Check out your deck's mana curve, and tell me how many of your spells become useless under a Chalice.  Staggering, ain't it?

I still like the idea of using Shades, but at this point I personally don't have enough to stick in the deck.  I say you keep with the Shades if you're comfortable with them.  Me, I'm still using Negators, but that's only for lack of Shades, and not because of any discomfort with them. (Note: I may have said differently in the past, but I'm no longer anti-Shade in a Void deck.  They're equally as justifiable.)

Also, don't listen to what anyone says.  Put that fourth Wasteland in there, and quickly.  5 LD lands is better than 4 - your swamps are less important, really.  Disrupt, Disrupt, Disrupt.

As for your sideboard:  I would re-think Masticores.  The upkeep isn't good for your deck, and they're not really all that valuable.  What are you going to be pinging with them that you need that sort of card and mana investment?  I would check out Contagion - it's got an alternate cost, and kills all sorts of bad creatures (as well as protects your Negators in combat, at least for me).

Also regarding your sideboard:  I can't see any good cases where you would want to side in Negators.  I really think they should either be MD or not at all - you should figure out whether you want to play with them or not, and then tune the rest of the deck accordingly.  If you use them, you want to protect them too and know how to play around them.  You will more often than not find yourself thinking "God, I wish I had [cardname] instead of this Negator in the SB".

Try this for your sideboard:

Naturalize x4
Withered Wretch x4
Contagion x4
Chalice of the Void x3

Note on the Chalice:  Be sure you know how you plan to Chalice with this deck.  Nether Void already kicks you in the ass for every Dark Ritual you draw; Chalice will kill 5 more cards.  Chalice for 2 in your deck will kill 16 cards (Shade, Wretch, Hymn, and Sinkhole; Mongoose is immune).  Make sure you have a plan ready whenever you Chalice in this very Chalice-prone deck.

[Pest]

Back when I played BG Void my Creature Base consisted of

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hyppie
4 Factory
2 Withered Wretch

It worked very well for me, the only Thing I would change in that is maybe replaceing Shades with Negators with todays meta. With Long gone and madness weakened, I think this deck can compete alot better given the right build.

Blurred Mongoose is cool and all, but playing it without a void on the table isn't that great, and it takes a while for you get a void out sometimes. Hyppie has alot more strong points and alot less weak points. It flies, with 2 out it's a hymn every turn, and it's within Dark Ritual Range. It's disadvantage is that is can be the target of spells and abilities and it's harder to cast under a Void. I like the Withered Wretches though, they own Dragon.

The rest of your build looks good to me. I played Void/Sui for a long time and I love Negators. So my suggestion of adding them kinda has to do with my sentimental attatchment to them. Also, I would try to fit in a fourth wateland. They are excellent, and adding 1 more can make more of a difference than you may think. I hope I've been of some help. Nice Build.

[Hunted Wumpus]

Colder: Are you sure that Mongoose isnt good lategame. As i see it, he hits the table and starts beating. Thats good at anypart of the game. Very good point about chalice of the void,  it must be played carefully. It bounces back and forth betwene my board depending on the exsistance of sligh in the meta.

Thanks for all your thoughts people. Most of you were supportive of mainboard mongoose, not what i expected. I figured i would get a rash of crap for my change. Here is my next thought.

It seems to me if Hippie is not in the main, he should not appear in the board. What do you all think, should 2-3 hippies find a slot i the board. Chalice could move aside for them. What do you think?

[colder]

In the "late game", i.e. a game goes beyond the dropping of a Void for a prolonged period of time, the Mongoose isn't going to do a lot of good.  I think you'd draw it to find yourself wishing it was a Mishra's Factory or something else with more function.  At least a Mishra's would be pumpable and go under the void, and a specter would at least have a shot by flying, but the goose will die to all man-lands, let alone any other creature in combat.

Also, I'll re-iterate my point that vs. control, it only serves to delay counters for your business spells (Sinkhole, Void, Deed).  Seriously though, let me know what playtesting turns up - I might be co-erced into playing them as well, given a certain strategy to using them.

As for Hippies:  Either play them or don't; don't waste sideboard slots on them.  This is serious advice, the stuff that I'd sooner you heed than my advice on the Mongooses.  Again, there's no reason for you to side them in for any matchup; you'll end up looking at them in your sideboard much as you'd look at Negators in your sideboard.

I rememberd another card after my original post that might be good for you to try out - Unmask.  It's been mentioned before, and you might like to give it a whirl.  Another card you could try is Cabal Therapy - you get 2 swift kicks at a player's hand, and it's good card economy too.  I would almost suggest you could give it a try in the maindeck, but I haven't tried it myself.

Happy deckbuilding!

[TracerBullet]

4 Shade, 3 Hyppie, 3 Wretch.



I've played every different configuration known to man, and can tell you this is the best setup for an open metagame.  No matter what you do, you want 4 Shades.  I don't see a possible situation where that would be negotiable.

Hyppies are going to go up in effectiveness after Long leaves, as they tend to be rather effective against most forms of control.  Wretchs are really useful against Dragon, Stax and Venguer, all of which will be rather prevalent in the coming days.

[Hunted Wumpus]

Thanks. Thats sounds like a hard solid answer. Would you pack mongoose in your board.