Many recent decks have been running Stifle maindeck. The...

[xrizzo]

Many recent decks have been running Stifle maindeck.  There are so many good reasons to do this, but quickly, lets looks at a short list of uses for Stifle:  

- strong against Long.dec and other storm based decks – mainly tendrills and mind’s desire
- stops pernicious deed, memory jar, powder keg, academy rector, smokestack, and illusions of grandeur
- stops Dragon.dec
- saves your land from wastes
- messes with their mana base when they use fetches (who doesn’t?)

There is nothing new there, but importantly, Stifle significantly helps your winning percentage against many top decks right now.

Combo: Dragon and Long (both much improved with stifle)
Control: GAT, Hulk, UR Scepter… All use fetchlands, and many other rogue decks are adding 1x Pernicious Deed for a reset button…  
Prison: MUD, stax… helps against Memory jar, and smokestack.  Is somewhat weaker here, but stopping Memory Jar’s recursion is very important.  Even just 1 stifle of a jar activation could mean the difference between winning and losing.
Aggro: This is the weakest archtype for stifle, yet luckily these are the weakest decks at the moment.

Look, I realize this doesn’t necessarily cover your favorite deck, but stifle is a great option after the standard 4x Mana Drain, and 4x Force of Will.  

The main point of this post is to converse about finally replacing your X Wasteland slots with X Stifle slots for added versatility.

This is only an option for blue based decks, but remember Stifle is one blue mana, pitchable, and completely replaces the functionality of Wasteland and more.  

Wasteland cannot get your opponents fetchies, and cannot always protect your duals from their wastes.  (unless they tap the waste for mana)  Instead of diluting your mana development with colorless lands, you can use the heavier reliance on blue spells to run more basic islands and the increased versatility to protect against other troublesome matchups.  

Early game, a control deck wants to establish its mana base as the first step in gaining control… stifle will help protect each of your important early blue duals.  It will also help in the control mirror in messing with their mana development.  The uncounterable nature of Wasteland is good, but at the cost of a land drop early on.  You need to get drain mana up as quickly as possible, and screwing with your opponents mana before you can drain is a waste of resources.  Your opponent will not blow a counter on this spell is often not an option because it can be played after your first turn.  (you would actually rather the use of a pitch counter, but few players will actually do this)  

A smart player might only activate his fetchland end of turn when you use brainstorm instead of the stifle, but hey, you just timewalked in many ways.

In the mid game, the stifle can still shape the games mana development in your favor, but it now can be used for so much more.  It can prevent a turn 2/3 combo win quite easily, it prevents a comeback ‘reset’ from pernicious deed, gains you permanents from not paying a smokestack ability, and generally is a useful 2nd tier answer to activated abilities.  (for one blue mana)

Late game, the stifle is practically strictly better than wasteland.  Think about how many times you needed your 4th waste effect?  How much better does added protection against jar activations, which would otherwise be uncounterable, sound?

Lastly, if you are playing against a deck with no fetchies, wastes, or activated abilities, then you can shuffle it back in with brainstorm and your protected fetchies.

I have some experience running decks with the stifle for wasteland switch and have been happy with it.  I would love to know what others think.

[Toast]

the problem with stifle is a stifle is not always a wasteland. Sure it can do a bunch of different things and can blow up your opponents fetchies but stifle can only sometimes be used for mana denial whereas wasteland only runs into problems when there are basics involved. (sure a fetchland is immune to wasteland but every non basic will have the opportunity for 1 activation before you waste it so fetchies really are only delaying the inevitable) wasteland also produces mana meaning it is never completely dead. Stifle sometimes is and to top that off you need a mana open to use it.

I am not saying stifle is a bad card, but I am not sure if wasteland is the right card to be cutting for them

[BreathWeapon]

Why replace them for Wastelands when you can use them inconjuction to completely trash 3-4 color deck's manabases?

[Big D of CF]

Hell, run 4x Stifles in any deck that supports it.  I run it in any deck I play, because I adore stifle.  I also adore wastelands.  4x Stifle + 4x Wasteland is optimal.

[xrizzo]

Quote (Toast @ Dec. 13 2003,22:44)I am not saying stifle is a bad card, but I am not sure if wasteland is the right card to be cutting for them

I guess I am saying that for the tightest of decks, Wasteland would be the card I see best fit to cut.  

If you want to go with 5 strip affects, and 3-4 stifles, and your deck can afford it, that is fine by me.  That, along with mox monkey could be a legitamate LD deck...

There are many advantages of running Wasteland, as many have pointed out, but some decks may appreciate the synergy Stifle has in some decks.

I am working on a couple builds which showcase this card in Waste's place, and will present them after further testing and analysis.

[Jakedasnake]

That is just out of the question. Sure, stopping a Fetchland is a huge tempo boost, but you really need to be able to destroy lands that have already come into play. In Blue Based Control decks, Wasteland is the ultimate utility. Where Stifle stops a Bazaar activation once, Wasteland gets rid of it. Stifle is also counterable, whereas very few things negate Wasteland.

Using them in conjunction seems like the optimal strategy for Blue Based Control decks. A full set of strips and 2-4 Stifle work very well together.

[xrizzo]

Blue based control decks surely should use the complement of both.  They would otherwise run Mana Leak or Misdirection or something in place of the stifle.  I am advocating the wasteland swap in decks which can afford to ignore bazaar, mishra's workshop, LoA, and other extremely powerful lands - Hulk, GAT, and other decks which can control the game by turn 2-3 are the real beneficiaries.

Also, I don't really care about a Bazaar activation against dragon as much because I can save the stifle for when they try to 'go off.'  At least it is one more card they must duress out of my hand...

[Jakedasnake]

If the Dragon player is about to go off, I doubt he would be careless enough to let you have the possibility of having Stifle in your hand. Stifle is much better in negating Bazaar activations, stopping fetchlands, etc. You'll rarely have the chance to utterly screw their combo because they're going to play around it.

As for Blue Based Control, I was talking about Keeper-esque decks, or U/R or OSE, none of which run Mana Leak in any build I can think of.

[Tripps]

Most decks are running Stifle AND Wasteland. Also, replacing lands, even lands used for strip effects, for spells is a little iffy IMO.

[xrizzo]

I have been working on a specific example to show my case.

Take GAT post restriction for example.

The manabase in some builds have been cut back to 22 sources to fit in 2 Stifle.  (3 wastes can translate to 1 Island, and 2 Stifle)

The mana is actually 2 colorless spells smaller, but the blue mana is larger.  

The build I am referring to is found here.

I don't mean to speak for Ultima, but this build exactly explains a situation I was trying to explain to a friend this week.  You don't need the Wasteland colorless mana.  If you aren't going to use the Wastes to kill land, then you should run more utility lands anyway.  If you are going to destroy land, then you wouldn't have the colorless mana anyway!