I've been testing U/R and Dragon extensively after Ge...

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

I've been testing U/R and Dragon extensively after GenCon. Mirrodin brought us a card that will define pure control decks for years to come in the form of Isochron's Scepter.  I'll discuss the merits of Scepter later, but first (according to myself) the optimal U/R Phid deck list.  Most of this is from a discussion I had with Milton about my build. I thought maybe this would be beneficial to others who might have questions, and I'm too lazy to type it twice.


Red Rover

.:Land:.
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
6 Island

.:Counter:.
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

.:Search:.
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Cunning Wish


.:Creatures-on-a-stick:.
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Ophidian
3 Isochron Scepter (The Stick)

.:Tricks:.
2 Stifle
2 Blood Moon
1 Shattering Pulse

.:Card Draw:.
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Fire/Ice

SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Rack and Ruin
SB: 4 Lightning Bolt (These are good)
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Dominate (I borrowed this tech from Milton)


This deck, right now, is very good. I have elements to beat aggro (Grims and Bolts) and the Scepters and 4 ReB's from the SB are very good against Control. Right now Blood Moon is a hit and miss sort of card, but I'd rather hit small than miss big. The Stifle's are about amazing, and the lone shattering pulse is a gem. This is what I've been playing lately. I think the 'lite' version with white thrown in reduces the potency of Blood Moon, and we all know that Blood Moon has the potential to be game winning. I'd like to fit another Blood Moon in the SB. I don't initially like the Mishra's, as I think they make you question how you want your deck to run. They pollute your mana base when combined with strips/wastelands, and you may not be able to counter something (even though you're running mana leaks) when you want to. I like the idea of standstill, but I think it would work better in a deck dedicated to it competely (with Teferi's Response, stifle,. more man-lands, that type of stuff.)

Shattering Pulse maindeck is a fine Scepter target. It is relatively cheap, and honestly there are times when I can't keep a creature on the board. The 2cc is not prohibitive, and I don't have to wait until I get up to 5 mana to kill a (possibly) first turn scepter. With the new Slaver deck coming out of MeanDeck (You should see it soon if you haven't already) I'm playing to a metagame that might come into effect in a couple months.

Stifle is the answer to many problems. Why? Take the much talked about first turn lackey. Stifle works there until your 2nd turn fire/ice works. Or Deed? I can't think of a better card against Deed than Stifle to be honest. I think you'd want 3 in a sligh heavy meta, with possible Misdirections in the board. (Don't remove the Lightning bolts for them though).  Stifling early fetchlands can create a very good tempo for yourself when you're running 5 strips and artifact munchers.  

On the Phids, I also run Grim Lavamancer (which comes out against control) and the first target my opponent has is the Lavamancer, making Phid a secure blocker until I get a stick (scepter) going. The 'mancer shuts Fish down completely, hoses Welders and Metalworkers, cuts through other Shamans, and takes care of Factories nicely.

I joke around and call this my deck on a stick. Everything, Phid, Mancer, Shaman, Iso, they're all a big stick.

The scepter question (whether Scepter is right for this type of deck), in my mind, is really out of place. The card fits naturally in a pure control deck. It doubles the efficacy of a card like Jayemdae Tome for half the cost. Think of it in Wiesmann terms, while it may seem to be card disadvantage, it really isn't. The ability to drop a first turn Scepter is too great to ignore, and will *definately* swing the game's momentum to your side if it goes through untouched. The risk of losing it is only rivaled by its ability to win the game...a trade I'm willing to make. I think Stifle helps here in late game as well, if the Shaman hits the board it costs them 5 mana to pop a scepter. You're most likely going to have fire/ice on the scepter, meaning that you'll kill the shaman if they don't use it. That's where Stifling the shamans ability comes in handy.

Factories are good, but I don't like the trade off. If Lackey is the problem, you'll have Fire/Ice, Grim Lavamancer, and Lightning Bolt from the sideboard--same goes with Negator. Blue's biggest concern, control's concern, has always been fast disruption backed by quick, undercosted creatures. I've always hated playing mono-black or discard backed by hippies or negators. I can honestly say that this deck handles that fear and then some. I can't stop talking about how good these bolts are. Good by themselves (take out an opposing phid if desperate) and sooo much better on a stick.

If Null Rod is a problem, I think the deck has it covered with Shaman, Pulse, and sb Rack and Ruin. Scepter is, for the most part, one of your win conditions in this deck. It's not fast, by no means, which is why-like Morphling, you have to know when to drop it early and go for the throat, or sit back and wait until you can protect it.  It's a matter of acquainting yourself with the stick, and then eventually learning to love the stick.

I would say that Blood Moon is a definate metagame call. If you feel more comfortable running a card drawer in that slot, it is probably the right call.

Traditional control had card draw in the form of Ophidian and Impulse. In this case the Fire/Ice on a stick replaces Impulse. Impulse has always been used to create an answer to early mana problems, or late game it filters through the chaff at the top of the deck. I would think Impulse would be a better card to replace the Moons with, as they still serve the same function, but become better when combined with the Isochron.

Red Rover doesn't rely on scepter at all--hence only the three. If I were making a Scepter deck I'd start with four of the sticks. I think it's the combination of threats that makes this deck so powerful, and the access it has to very good cards from the sideboard.

It's a very simple, yet effective sideboard. Control means you need to bring in ReB. Dragon means in comes BeB (effect on the stack and BeB the dragon-same as plowshares) The Stifles are good to stall early mana by hitting fetchlands if need be, this coupled with 5 strips can win you a game, not to mention they can stop Keeper's win condition in Decree of Justice. Aggro is answered by less counterspells than old conventional builds, and more threats. It's the same old idea, side out the counterspells that sit uselessly in your hand, and side in the Psionic Blasts. Only now those threats are in the main deck.

My Shaman statement wasn't saying that it's hard to get to 5 mana, but if they cast the shaman they have to use 6 mana, they probably have just exactly 6 or maybe a little more. This is where Stifle comes in because you Stifle the Shaman's ability. Next turn you Fire it. Stifle is a life-saver in a lot of situations, and if poeple are running 4 x Deed, you may want to run at least 3 Stifle.

I don't see scepter as the primary win condition. I see a contribution from Phid (yes it does damage!) Lavamancer, Shaman and Scepter. It is a slow way to kill someone off and it forgoes the belief that you need an identifiable win condition.

Thoughts? There are still unanswered questions I'm sure.

-Smith\n\n

[Cedric]

Your list looks good, the only thing i would try to fit in is brainstorms.  They would work well with your lavamancer, and be another imprintable card.  I don't know where you could fit them it though..it looks like your list dosen't have much room.  Maybe cut a fire/ice, move the bloodmoons to the side and something else (lavamancer?) for 4x brainstorm...

Oh yeah...why no pearl?

[Moxlotus]

I would replace the Phids with 4 Brainstorm. Phid has to deal w/ creature control and has to get past blockers. Brainstorm works with fetchlands, costs 1 mana, and when it is on a stick, it is better card drawing than Phid.

Also, where's the Library?

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

Historically it has been a problem to keep Phid on the board, hence the apprehensive decision to run them.  Against control it's not a question on whether they are worth running, as an early threat(turn 2 usually) they can win you the game.  Against aggro they are healthy blockers at 1/3, but as I said, it is hard to keep them on the board.  This is where the Lavamancers come in handy.  Now the aggro player has to decide if they want to burn the 'Mancer or the Phid.  With Fire/Ice being so popular, Phid is 10 times as powerful.

Brainstorm may be a good card to imprint, but with the redundant nature of this deck, Impulse is a better choice.  The deck should NOT rely on Scepter too much, as their WILL be an increase in targeted hate with it being so popular.

Library falls into the Mishra's Factory debate.  If you feel inclined to run it, then do so, but running 5 strips and off colored moxen (along with mana drains) means that you have to sacrifice for creating a clean mana distribution.  Non-basic lands don't work so well with Blood Moon either. After testing, 4 moxen worked the best. If I were running a dedicated Scepter deck, I would have run a full set.

How do brainstorms work well with Lavamancer?  Brainstorms also fit into the 1cc category.  With Mirrodin, it is imperative to consider casting costs, as Chalice of the Void can literally shut down half your deck.

-Smith

[Cedric]

Brainstorm is just another card thrown into the yard to feed the lavamancer...while giving you a better hand and making your fetchlands more useful.  If you feel the need to run impulse because of the casting cost more power to you.  One way or another a little dig in your deck could help find those cards you need...and brainstorm can hide your spells from duress.

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

No, you misunderstand.  Impulse is not a better card because of its casting cost. It is a better card because it digs deeper, removes the chaff, and helps to smooth out a mana curve.  In a redundant control deck (take mono blue for example) Impulse is better than Brainstorm for some of these reasons(aside from smoothing the curve).  While it is true that Brainstorm can hide cards from Duress, how many decks post-Long will be using Duress?  

It's true that Brainstorm has gotten more powerful after  fetchlands were made.  Decks that abuse Brainstorm, like Keeper, are those that can utilize tutors and other shuffle effects in conjunction with the Fetchlands.  U/R control usually has only five shuffle effects...and that isn't enough.  This makes the move back to Impulse in a deck like this the right one--besides, I'll put a card in the graveyard for Lavamancer whether I play Impulse or Brainstorm.  

But you'll notice that I don't play Impulse--opting to draw more threats (which I consider all to be a 2-1 in card advantage) than cards that allow me to search for the answer.  

I chose to draw the answer than dig for it.  Hence, there is no mad dash to counter everything I can and draw off eot spells for a Morphling.      

As another point, one that I made thinking that you probably already knew about the Brainstorm/Impulse thinking, was that it is important these days to also create a diversive threat distribution in deckbuilding.  It shouldn't be your focus when you get the palatte out, but it should come into consideration before you put on the finishing touches.  

Maybe I mislead people in the post somewhere.  I'm not looking for advice on what cards to add.  I believe this is the optimal list for U/R and I am open to questions and criticism on why I believe this.  Believe me, I've tested every card you're going to advise I use.  If you feel something is out of place, bring it up and I'll explain why it's there.

-Smith

[Shivea]

Overall you have 14 cards to imprint excluding Wish targets.  Do you ever find yourself without something to stick to the stick?

I'd like to see a midgame bomb or two, like Future Sight or Fact or Fiction.  Why did this type of card not make the cut?  Has they just been too slow on the higher tables, or just never found the room?

I really do like the inclusion of Lavamancers.  Without Mana Leaks, I can see how they would make a great first turn drop.  Really a great job.

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

The common myth is that you want to drop a Scepter as fast as you can, regardless of counter backup.  In reality, you have to be selective about when you drop a Scepter, and what you imprint on the scepter.  It's not always a good idea to imprint a mana drain--getting stuck with all that mana can be a bad thing.  

In some situations I find it's better to maybe use that Fire/Ice in your hand and not take the time to put it on the stick.  A first turn Welder needs to be dealt with immediately, and waiting for your Scepter to get online (and probably killed before you can use it) is not a good idea.  My advice: treat the Scepter as you would treat a Morphling.  Sometimes you feel as if you're in a position to drop Superman early and go for the win, sometimes you need to sit back and wait.  I think there are a perfect amount of pitch spells in the deck if you play it with that mindset.

You're right, there is no 'midgame bomb' (other than scepter) that will blow the game out like a Yawgmoth's Will can.  Fact or Fiction and Future Sight are both good card drawers, but I wouldn't consider them a bomb...not in this deck.  Future Sight can be a bomb in the right deck, but not in one as redundant as this.  

Thank you for your comments on the mancers.  They replace more counter magic and make the deck more reactive than traditional control.  The metagame has dictated that cards like Stifle, and Lavamancer have their day in the spotlight.

-Smith

[Dante]

Matt - how has the mystical tutor been?  Typically in a deck like this my usual thought is to cut it since it's redundant and there's not as many bombs without white and black.  I think in this case since you're not running brainstorm/impulse, it's a good fit since you'd like to have some tutoring capabilities since you have no real draw or search other than ancestral (and 2 wishes).

What I'm really saying is that I understand why you have it (even if it's not clear from my babble above), but maybe you could explain it better to others than I could above.

On a secondary note, I'm sure you've tested Morphling, what were the conclusions you drew on putting 1 Morphling in - that you just didn't need it?

Bill

[jhaggs]

Mr. Channel-fireball,

  First of all, that's the best forum name I've seen.  Hilarious.  As for your deck, if you were to cut something like mystical tutor would replace it for another bloodmoon or possibly a 3rd wish?  Finally, I agree that the bolts right now are very good. But considering that you aren't MD something liek morphling, have you considered running Flame tongue Kavo in the SB?