Old gems buried in past sets.

[Pago]

Recently, a card named Eladamri's Vineyard began to pop up in lots of decks as a fast way of mana acceleration.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eladamri's Vineyard  
-Tempest-
At the beginning of each player's pre-combat main phase, add  {G} to that player's mana pool.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is a cheap, efficient way of getting mana real quick. It has been used to most success in Aggro or Combo decks (Combo decks include variants of Belcher, and Tendrils). Aggro decks include Vineyard TnT, Oshawa Stompy, and some B/G Aggro (Void, PT Funk??).

Until I actually saw a picture of the card with its little lightning cloud symbol, I thought that it was a new addition from Mirrodan or something, some rare card that had been overlooked with its potential. I realised today (after look at www.mtgpics.com, thanks Toad!) that it actually came from Tempest.

Now, how is that a card that has been buried for such a long time is suddenly seeing lots of play? It is being used a budget means for acceleration, a par-replacement for Power and other expensive mana accelerants? Has it been a card that has sat buried in card spoilers until someone happened to glaze upon it?

The same  thing goes for a card "[card]Ancestral Knowledge[/card]"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[card]Ancestral Knowledge[/card]
-Weatherlight-
Enchantment
Cumulative upkeep  
When Ancestral Knowledge comes into play, look at the top ten cards of your library, then remove any number of them from the game and put the rest back on top of your library in any order.
When Ancestral Knowledge leaves play, shuffle your library.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only time I saw this card was when I was making a decklist and typed in "Ancestral" in the apprentice search field. Yet, it is not suddenly seeing play in Dutch Tendrils (also known as TPS, or The Perfect Storm). Although I think its a horrible choice, it must have some merrit, to be picked by the infamous makers of combo, the Dutch

So, what is everybody's opinion?
a) do people know about them, and are just waiting to used them in the right time?
b) have people come upon by chance, and noted their usefullness?
c) random coincedence?

[b_1e1_n]

I used to use Vineyard in some elf/turbo deck I had, but it was just for casual play.  

The Ancestral I don't think would be that decent in a combo deck, well on one hand it can speed up 9 turns of useless draw (considering you have 9 cards you don't want at any given moment), but with so much better search I couldn't see anything to take out for it.

[Harry Lime]

The Vineyard is fun in multiplayer, but because your opponent(s) get to use the extra mana before you do, I don't know how good it would be in a competative format. Howling Mine suffers from the same type of drawback, which is another fun card for casual games, but not one I would recommend in a tournament. It is possible that the Vineyard would just burn your opponent for a little, which could make it worthwhile, but it seems a lot of decks would be able to take advantage of it immediatly and use it against you.

edit - It's used in decks now? Color me surprised.

Ancestral Knowledge seems like it could work with Future Sight.

[skecreatoR]

Thought of the same thing, Knowledge and a Sight could be o-so-bad. There are a lot of hidden cards who can go berserk probably, if put in the rigth deck, but such a deck might not exist. Recently, i played against stax running 4 Citanul druids. Together with elves, the stacks and wires didnt neither destroy or tap my druids, they practicly ran him over.

It is a sideboard card at best, but somehow it is so incredibly strong against so many different decks, that it could be considered. That is at least one of my "mightrock" cards. Am i totally off?

[Puschkin]

Vineyard at least has been tried out in many kinds of decks, but it somehow never makes the cut. It is also fun in casual/multiplayer and as such it is well known to deckbuilders. So, if that card makes no appearance in any winning decklists, it is most likely not good enough. Of course, this is one of the cards to watch because it is the type of card that just needs another card to combo well with. So, keep Vineyard in mind when you read the next spoilerlist.


Ancestral knowledge is one of my favourites. I just love this card, it is digging, tutoring and thinning all in one. You can also take advantage of the shuffling effect.
But I guess it will never make it into any winning deck. It is just too moderate in every aspect it has and it is too slow for modern Type I. You do not really want to pay upkeep on an Impulse like effect, but upkeep you have to pay at least once to grab the best card of the 10. You cast it and you get nothing immideately, thats also a serious drawback.
So, IF you use it, you need a really dedicated deck that squeezes more out of the card, like in  Enchantress where you draw an extra card when you play it. Then again, in such decks you have alternatives like Sylvan Library.
For these reasons I'd say, don't watch it for your serious decks but remember it next time you build a casual deck.


Here is another "forgotten" gem:
Mystic Remora !
That might net you insane card advantage in today's metagame.

[DEA]

Recently, i played against stax running 4 Citanul druids. Together with elves, the stacks and wires didnt neither destroy or tap my druids, they practicly ran him over

just wondering here
did he resolve any spheres against you?
also, if he did, what would have happened if they were trinispheres instead?
i ask because elves are one of the matchups i didn't like before darksteel came out

[SpencerForHire]

I used to run ancestral knowledge in egg-cademy, it made for the perfect setup for the kill.  THere are alot of cards out there that were overlooked back in there day which will probably one day see alot of play.  If you wanna be revolutionary, dont look to the new sets.  Look to the old sets.

[Pago]

Drop of Honey (a super cheap abyss) and Root Maze are now starting to see play as powerful metagame cards. Honey obviously works in the SB of Oshawa stompy (J. Orlove used it in the tourney) and Root Maze is seeing play in lots of decks including Mono-G Land-D, O. Stompy.

That reminds me: back in the day, any thread or discussion or whatever with the words "Land-D" in it was entitle to super flame wars and almost garaunteed noob postings. How come Mono-G land-D decks have made such a large impact and insurgence all of a sudden?

[?ISuck@MTG?]

Both of the cards look like fun combo cards, Vineyard is just 2 Free mana on the second turn, which would probably help a broken Long.dec alittle (Maybe) and the Ancestral could be decent for combo I guess. It seems like it would be a slightly bad choice for Long, but could be kinda cool in Dragon

[Jacob Orlove]

That reminds me: back in the day, any thread or discussion or whatever with the words "Land-D" in it was entitle to super flame wars and almost garaunteed noob postings. How come Mono-G land-D decks have made such a large impact and insurgence all of a sudden?

Because misidrection is seeing much less play as of late.

[Fëanor]

Why isn't Soothsaying better than Ancestral Knowledge??????
maybe im missing something big...but MetaMage once taught me the unbelievable power of Ss in T1, and i never forgot, not that i actually use the card but still

Peace

EDIT: Ss = Soothsaying, Read this article at StarCityGames

[Cavocavi]

Excuse me asking but what is "Ss".

[Fëanor]

On another note, the Vineyard has been played for a very long time in almost every area. Every scrubby tourney i go to, someone is using it. Mostly it's becuase it helps stompy and stompy aint as pop in strict T1 anymore.

[Pago]

Root maze is now a popular way to put a stop to tempo and prison.dec for only G. This is also seeing lots of recursion from its old set now. Have any of you seen play of Root Maze recently (before 2003). That being said, how about Drop of Honey?

[Bram]

Somneone tried a serious mono green control deck based around Drop of Honey, City of Solitude and Gigapede some 2 years back. It never cought on as it wasn't good enough, but it sure was cool.

Mystic Remora can be cool. A friend of mine tried it as a Keeper SB card against combo (just for fun) and it acted like a freakin' Ancestral every time.

[skecreatoR]

Recently, i played against stax running 4 Citanul druids. Together with elves, the stacks and wires didnt neither destroy or tap my druids, they practicly ran him over

just wondering here
did he resolve any spheres against you?
also, if he did, what would have happened if they were trinispheres instead?
i ask because elves are one of the matchups i didn't like before darksteel came out

He did get about two spheres down, but i dropped the combo (Intruder Alarm) and went for a straight beatdown, using my 9/9 druids as an very fast clock (I even killed 2 smokestacks that was karn'ed in one of my attacks!)

The druids dont really care what you do, when they are on the board. They just become wrecking :)