[Deck] My Keeper

[PacmanXSA]

Hiya!

I've been playing around with Humility in my keeper.  Please post comments.  I'm trying to establish a solid SB.  That's where I think that the majority of the work needs to go.  Also, I'm thinking about brainstorm.  Do you think it's necessary/possible to fit them in?? My meta is pretty basic.  Lots of aggro and a few attemps at control and a few combo related decks as well.  


The following is my deck list:


Artifacts:

Black Lotus
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Sol Ring
Zuran Orb
2x Isochron Scepter

Blue

Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Mystical Tutor
Braingeyser
4x Mana Drain
4x Force Of Will
2x Stifle
2x Cunning Wish
Fact Or Fiction
Misdirection

Black

Demonic Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Mind Twist

White

2x Swords To Plowshares
Balance
2x Humility
3x Decree Of Justice

Red
Fire/Ice
Gorilla Shaman

Land
Library Of Alexandria
Strip Mine
3x Wasteland
3x Underground Sea
Island
2x Volcanic Island
3x Tundra
Undiscovered Paradise
4x Polluted Delta
Tolarian Academy

Sideboard

3x Red Elemental Blast
Blue Elemental Blast
Hurkyl's Recall
Diabolic Edict
Swords To Plowshares
Misdirection
Stroke Of Genius
Vampiric Tutor
Shattering Pulse
Rack and Ruin
Circle Of Protection: Black
Circle Of Protection: Red
Tormods Crypt

Thanks for looking baby!

Pac

[WhiteMage05]

Just a few comments. For starters, you might want to browse the Type 1 Vintage forum and just peek at some of those Keeper deck lists. They should be able to help you on your basic build. As for my issues with your deck:

-1 Braingeyser;  As a sorcerey, it is too slow and costs too much (UU).
-1 Misdireciton; Though this card may be good in the control matchup, you will most likely end up siding it out for a REB and therefore will not need it. Besides that, there are better cards that can be put in that spot.
-1 Balance; Although you may be playing against a lot of Agrro decks, Balance can be more helpful on the sideboard. This card is quite broken, and if you were not trying to fit in 2 main-decked humility than I would suggest leaving it in.
+3 Brainstrom; This card is good for so many reasons that I need not explain them all. This card is not only "sick" when imprinted on a scepter, but it will end up being one of your best sifters in that it will find you mana...quickly.
-1 Zuron Orb, +1 Scepter; Scepter is more versitile and the life gain is really not that necissary. Keeper, as a control deck, should be able to keep most threats from landing and there damage is normally self inflicted.
-1 Decree of Justice, +1 Fire/Ice. I think of it this way: You're playing with scpeters and maindecked humility. There should be more Fire/Ice in your maindeck in order to destroy everything. Humility + Fire/Ice on a Stick will win you a game or six. Besides that, 2 Decree's and a Monkey are plenty of win condition. Don't forget your other win condition: Fire/Ice on a stick. You can A) draw a card every turn, or B) Do two damage every turn. Note: options A and B are interchangeable.
-1 Undiscovered Paradise, +1 Wasteland; U. Paradise will not be too helpful in fueling your deck. You're bouncing a land to your hand every turn. That does not work well when you're "saving up" for a Decree or for Monkey Ownage. In addition, a lot of decks now a days are heavily non-basic land based. Having 5 strip effects will help you keep their mana under control; especially with two MD'd stifle (stifle those fetchies!).

Sideboard issues:
I would like you to comment on which combo decks are played at your tournaments.Once I know that I can make different comments on your SB but these suggestions are on a non-meta considered basis:

-1 Misdirection, +1 Fire/Ice; Again, this card is not going to help you as much as a Fire/Ice will. It may seem redundant to play 2 MD Fire/Ice as well as one on your SB, but remember that you're playing Cunning Wish, and with testing you will see why Fire/Ice will be tech/ownage!
-1 Stroke of Genius, +1 Skeletal Scrying; Though Stroke is better than Geyser, Scrying is better than Stroke. Both cards can be wished for, but scrying is going to be more of a bomb. Also, Scrying cannot be misdirected. That is a big plus.

Well, that's my opinion. I Played a deck similar to yours, though without the humilities. My builds were based on Zherb and Kerz builds becaues they are just too darn good. However, the only way to figure out what is going to work for you is going to be testing in your meta. I would love for you to list some of the decks that you see at you tournament, and if they don't have an official "name", maybe just the concept behind them, or their main win condition. Further comments can then follow.

[glenchuy]

i also play in a very aggroish environment, but i never missed braingeyser after i replaced it with skeletal scrying.  it's an instant and gets you one more card.  the stroke of genius in the sideboard should really be another skeletal scrying.  it gets you 2 more cards.

[nietzreznor]

I agree about cutting the Braingeyser, the MisD, and the Underground Paradise.  I would definitely NOT cut Balance.  Its still one of Keeper's strongest weapons, and a prime tutor target.  As for Decree, I would run all 3; the card is amazing, and its quite good against aggro.  Early on, it cycles, letting you look at more cards for answers.  It also doubles as removal, as you can cycle it and take out some weenies, or chump if need be.

[Zherbus]

There is no reason, no matter the metagame, to ever EVER cut Balance.

[Eastman]

There is no reason, no matter the metagame, to ever EVER cut Balance.

 -
except it always gets countered- it's like yawgmoth's will; if yur down it's not gonna resolve, and if your already winning (have a big graveyard to cast it and everythign) then its just overkil.

[PacmanXSA]

I can see the Scryings going in if I put the Brainstorms in, however Geyser has been working quite well for me.  I'll playtest the Scryings I guess.  I DID have one in the SB however I found myself wishing I hadn't got rid of certain cards in the graveyard at times.  

Regarding Balance, that's a negative.  IMO Balance will NEVER be cut.  I see some people are seeing it my way as well

The zorb is in there because of the aggro meta.  It has saved my life COUNTLESS times and will I would have a tough time removing it.

For what's concerning the Undiscovered, I was more leaning towards a COB.  I played with the 4 wastelands prior to this build and I found that they were excellent versus the mirror, however I got stuck with em against all those mono colored aggro decks that I see a lot of.  I discoreved that going with 3 was probably going to be my best bet.

Regarding my sideboard, the combo type decks that I see include everything from Trix to Academy variants to Long variants.  Also, I REALLY like the MisD in the sb seeing as it is a wishable response to an opposing hymm or Recall.

Anyways, keep the comments coming!  

Thanks everyone.

Pac

Please keep the comments coming!

[Calibus]

except it always gets countered- it's like yawgmoth's will; if yur down it's not gonna resolve, and if your already winning (have a big graveyard to cast it and everythign) then its just overkil.

That's not necessarily true.  First, not every deck runs coutermagic.  Second, it has the ability to gain such massive card advantage, especially when you are down.  It can be Wrath of God, Armageddon, Mind Twist, or any combination of the three.  Balance if one of the most broken cards in the deck and to cut it would be sacrilege.

[BrokenDeck]

The reason balance should not be cut is simple: it will get countered.  That is exactly the best reason to run a card.  Why? Because card that are auto counters either
A.) Draw out a counter, giving you an advantage in the counter war]
B.) Resolve because you just drew out your opponent's last counter, giving you card advantage
C.) Let you get into a counter war, which is a real advantage if you can win it, and we all know how easy it is to win a counter war when your opponent starts it.

[Mixing Mike]

There is no reason, no matter the metagame, to ever EVER cut Balance.

 -
except it always gets countered- it's like yawgmoth's will; if your down it's not gonna resolve, and if your already winning (have a big graveyard to cast it and everything) then its just overkill.

I'm gonna have to disagree here.  I was playing vs. Landstill once.  He had a full hand and Standstill out.  I broke his Standstill with just a Mystical Tutor and the Balance in my hand.  I play Balance first, he draws his cards, and it resolves.  Yes it was lucky, but it does happen.  I MT out a Decree, then pass the turn with both of us having no cards in hand.  He just so happens to rip Stifle off his libiary, and me figuring he drew something other than his 3ed Stifle, cycled it, and then proceeded to lose.

That's not the point though.  You never know when you'll get lucky and have a game breaking oppoturnity to steal a win you had no right in getting.

[PacmanXSA]

I really wish to speak about my build and not about the "usefullness" of balance in which the majority of us are already aware.

Are any of you actually testing Humility in your Keepers?  Don't tell me it's no good because I don't copy and paste decks from the Vintage forum either :p  A little originality never hurt anyone!

Pac

[Ivantheterrible]

Eastman Said:
except it always gets countered- it's like yawgmoth's will; if yur down it's not gonna resolve, and if your already winning (have a big graveyard to cast it and everythign) then its just overkil.

This was a joke. I have seen Eastman play both of these cards and I doubt he really thinks you should cut balance he was just joking about something said in a previous keeper thread.

You should cut mis-d, braingyser, 3rd decree, and Undiscovered paradise for a 4th waste and I gusse scyrings while they can be cool with wishes they are horrible with yag will for that matter I perfer futer sight but I have no aggrements on that, because it is kinda slow which leads me too..

Keeper as a whole is dead, the deck to play now in random big tournmnets where metagame is undicesive has swithced from keeper to hulk,

I also think that this dosent have a good enough matchup against Landstill so both hulk and landstill seem like they would give you headaches.

[Milton]

I have a few questions.  Instead of telling you that x card is sub-optimal and should be replaced with y card, I want your justification for x card.

1) First, why Zorb?  I understand you insistance that it is good in an aggro meta, but what aggro decks are you facing?  Gorilla Shaman are everywhere.  The good aggro decks here pack Shaman or Null Rod, sometimes even both.  It would seem that you would need to justify this card as being metagame dependant by disussing the decks you face most often.

2) Why Scepter?  Seriously.  Have you found this card to be effective, sluggish, a huge card for controling tempo or just a finisher when the game has already been decided?  You don't have too many spells to imprint on the thing (2 x Swords, 1 x Fire/Ice, 4 x Mana Drain, restricted cards like Ancestral or stuff from the board with Cunning Wish).  You don't even have Brainstorm to imprint on the card.  Do you imprint Stifle?  I don't quite see the rationale for this card in your deck.  Please explain.

3) The sideboard is extremely Cunning Wish dependant, but you only run two Wishes.  I like the COP's and the Crypt, but the other 12 wishable cards are lacking somewhat, from my perspective.  Also, if you truly play in an aggro heavy meta, there are only two anti-aggro spells in your board, Edict and Plow, and only Plow is effective.  Edict is not a very good spell against a good aggro deck.  On the other hand you have 3 anti-artifact spells.  This would indicate that artifacts are more of a concern to you than are creatures.  Please justify your sideboard choices.  You mentioned that you face combo type decks yet there are very few cards that are good against comboish decks.  Not even a Stifle.  Explain, please.

4) I like the Decree's and the Humilities.  I think 3 Decree and 2 Humility are great calls for an aggro heavy meta.  But, why only one Fire/Ice?  It seems as though Fire/Ice and Humility would go great together.  Instead you run two Plows.  Why is Plow more important in your metagame than is Fire/Ice, especially in conjunction with Humility?  Also, considering the fact that you play against Comboish decks, what do you board in when you take out the two Humilities, two Plows and the Fire/Ice?  Also, the Misdirection can come out agasint certian combo decks.  That's six cards, with no cards to swap in from the board.

5) Why Vampiric Tutor in the board?  Under what conditions will you Cunning Wish for Vampiric Tutor and then what will you Tutor for?  Do you find yourself CW for VT to cast Humility most often?  If this is the case, would VT maindeck be a better idea?

6) Why the lone Misdirection?  In your metagame what do you Misdirect?  For that matter, why the two Stifles?  What are you Stifling most often?  Are there better uses for these three slots?

7) Braingeyser seems very, very dead in this deck.  Explain the rationale for the inclusion of this card, especially considering the Stroke in the sideboard.

8) Why the lone Gorilla Shaman?

Those are my questions.  For the most part I'd say that your deck is trying to do waaaaay too much and has lost focus.  Thanks.

[PacmanXSA]

1) First, why Zorb?

Zorb is necessary when facing aggroish decks seeing as it is the sole resource for regaining life.  Sure, I see monkey's everyonce in a while, however most burn decks I see down here would pack one monkey, and it would obviously rarely see play.  Other than that, monkey would be seen only in control type decks.  Null rod really isn't of much concern seeing as I can easily dispose of it normally

2) Why Scepter?  Seriously.

I find myself dropping a first turn scepter quite often imprinting stifle, mana drain, ancestral, swords, etc depending on what I'm facing.  There are LOTS of cards to imprint.  I really don't agree with you here.  It really hasn't become an issue.  Scepter has pulled it weigh long enough for me to mainboard two.  As long as the card stays in play for a couple of turn, the card advantage becomes enormous.  

3) The sideboard is extremely Cunning Wish dependant, but you only run two Wishes.

The edict is there in case of the morphling drop.  I haven't seen it a whole lot, however I'd have a tough time dealing with it without the edict if I ever did see it.  That's really the only rationale behind that.  The plow in the side is for obvious reasons.  I was thinking about something like pyroclasm, however this isn't an instant.  If you have better SB proposals, please let me know.  That's why I posted the decklist to begin with.  I dropped the 3rd wish for Mystical Tutor.  I found that I wanted balance/will more often than the 3rd wish.

4) I like the Decree's and the Humilities.  I think 3 Decree and 2 Humility are great calls for an aggro heavy meta.  But, why only one Fire/Ice?  It seems as though Fire/Ice and Humility would go great together.  Instead you run two Plows.  Why is Plow more important in your metagame than is Fire/Ice, especially in conjunction with Humility?  Also, considering the fact that you play against Comboish decks, what do you board in when you take out the two Humilities, two Plows and the Fire/Ice?  Also, the Misdirection can come out agasint certian combo decks.  That's six cards, with no cards to swap in from the board.

Plows are cheaper than fire/ice.  I rarely see myself using the ice portion of the card seeing as the fire is normally a weenie killer.  Also, I do not always have humility out right away.  Plow is an excellent answer for a quick fattie that gets dropped early game.

5) Why Vampiric Tutor in the board?  Under what conditions will you Cunning Wish for Vampiric Tutor and then what will you Tutor for?  Do you find yourself CW for VT to cast Humility most often?  If this is the case, would VT maindeck be a better idea?

I found the sb vamp to be a sort of last resort thing, in which I NEED to get a certain card asap.  I took it out of the maindeck because of speed issues.  I find it to be just as fast while in the sb.  Why WOULDN'T you want to have full access to ANY card in the deck at instant speed?

6) Why the lone Misdirection?  In your metagame what do you Misdirect?  For that matter, why the two Stifles?  What are you Stifling most often?  Are there better uses for these three slots?

The lone MisD is debatable.  I find it always good to MD one for intimidation factors.  It's also another free counter.  The stifles, I have just recently started using.  They have become invaluable MB.  I use them on the stick, or solo against opposing wastes, fetches, decrees, etc.  They, in my mind, have become a must for any type of control deck.

7) Braingeyser seems very, very dead in this deck.  Explain the rationale for the inclusion of this card, especially considering the Stroke in the sideboard.

I guess the Geyser can be debated as well against Scrying.  I really don't like how it's a sorcery, however I really don't like the graveyard aspect of scrying.  As stated above, I'll have to playtest this however.

8) Why the lone Gorilla Shaman?

To get rid of artifacts... I really can't see why I would have to justify the monkey...

Now instead of questions, please post suggestions!

Thanks!

Pac

[Matt]

You misunderstand Milton. He means, why only one Shaman and not two? Shaman is a huge card against the best decks.

Also, Fire/Ice should be a LOT better than StP with multiple Humilities running around. It's also basically the best card to put on a Scepter. Between Humility, Scepter, and your aggro-meta, you should be running as much as 3 Fires main and 1 in the board.

The second Shaman is also good with Humility out; R to trade with any creature!

If you're facing lots of burn, maybe the Zorb should be another Wish and you could sideboard Hero's Reunion (to Scepter) or Samite Ministration or something.

[Veriest1]

I agree with the 3 Decrees adjacent the Humilities. But I also believe you should be running at least 2 Fire/Ice, if not more.

[Milton]

First, let me say that I found many of your answers to be overly simplistic.  I am certianly not trying to be rude here, but I'm trying to get you to see that some of your card choices are potentially sub-optimal.

OK.  Suggestions:

Not having Brainstorm is a huge mistake.  Huge.  You really have NO card drawing other than your Ancestral, Braingeyser and Fact.  Your tutor base is fine, but you will spend a large amount of the game in top-deck mode searching for answers, instead of drawing cards and finding answers.  Seriously.  You could probabally cut down to one Humility and increase the number of card drawing/searching spells.  Then, I would add a Humility or two to the sideboard.

-1 Humility    +1 Brainstorm

The lone Gorilla Shaman does not work well with Humility.  If you want to keep 2 Humility in the deck and you live in an aggro heavy meta, there is no reason to have a Shaman.  It's nearly a dead card if Humility hits play.  If you plan on facing a bunch of artifact decks, then you probabally need two Shaman.  So, if you run 2 Humility I wouldn't run any Shaman.  If you run no Humility I would run 2 Shaman.  Since you seem set on the Humility, I would run zero Shaman.  Your cards should work well together.  It's just out of place.

-1 Gorilla Shaman     +1 Brainstorm

Also, your use of Braingeyser is sub-optimal.  It truly is.  Scrying is less expensive and is instant speed.  That's huge.  But, I wouldn't even put Scrying in this spot.  

-1 Braingeyser     +1 Brainstorm

Your counter base is off.  2 Stifle, 1 Misdirection is just wierd.  I personally love Misdirection and don't really like Stifle for my metagame.  If your meta is truly aggro heavy, then Stifle is probabally a dead card.  You still really didn't answer why you put Stifle in the deck and why you have the one Misdirection.  I would assume you want to be able to Misdirect Hymns, Bolts, Artifact Mutations...  Then play two Misdirections and cut the Stifles.

-2 Stifle     +1 Brainstorm     +1 Misdirection

Now your deck, with the Fetchlands, is capable of cycling through cards much faster.  You can use Brainstorm and Fetchlands to maximum advantage and have the extra counter punch with Misdirection.  You will be able to find Tutors faster, allowing you to cast your silver bullet, Humility, or you will be able to bury Humility with Brainstorm and Fetchlands, getting it out of your hand when it is useless.

About the Scepters:  I don't like them.  After hours of testing I found them to be sub-optimal.  I'm not alone, but many, many people seem to disagree.  It's your call.  In my opinion, it's your funeral too.  Matrix and Rod are everywhere, but you certianly know your metagame better than I do.  I would cut them, myself.

-2 Scepters     +1 Skeletal Scrying  +1 Cunning Wish

In regards to Zuran Orb, it's your call again.  I like it myself.  Great with Skeletal Scrying.  The reason many people don't like this card anymore is because Fetchlands lower the actual amount of mana you have in play at the end of the game.  Instead of finishing games with 10 or 12 lands in play, now you are finishing games with 6 or 7 land in play.  So, Zorb has lost it's punch.  But, I like it myself.  Keep it.

Also, I would go -2 Swords, +2 Fire/Ice in my metagame, but that's just me.  It works great with Scepter and Fire/Ice is phenomonal for clearing away their 1/1 creatures when you have Humility in play.  

MANA BASE:
Cut Tolarian and Undiscovered.  I can see no rationale for these cards, with the exception of using Tolarian to fuel huge Decree cycles.  But, this is a trade off again because you really don't have much White in the deck either, so a skilled and knowledgeable opponent will go after your white mana agressively so you can't play Humility.  Go to four Tundra, especially with Humility being the bomb.  You need four Tundras.  As for the Undiscovered Paradise, it died with fetchlands.  You can fetch basic lands, so if Back to Basics is a problem, then add an Island or a Volcanic.

-1 Tolarian     +1 Tundra     -1 Undiscovered     +1 Volcanic (or Island)

Also, ask yourself why you are running 3 Wastes and one Strip.  You clearly are not serious about controling mana development, otherwise you would have the 4 Wastes.  So you are targeting specific lands.  What are they?  Mishra's Factories?  Workshops?  Bazaar?  Treetop Villages?  If you see very few of these then go down to two Wastes.  Add a basic island.

SIDEBOARD

-1 Hurkyls Recall     +1 Humility
-1 Diabolic Edict     +1 Dominate
     (Morphling shouldn't be a problem.  No one plays it anymore).
-1 COP Black     +1 Disenchant
     (I was shocked to see no disenchant effects.  Why COP Black,
      anyway?  You should own Black.)
-1 Tormod's Crypt     +1 Stifle
     (one Crypt?  Why?  Way to situational.  Stifle fills this slot nicely)
-1 Blue Blast     +1 Fire/Ice

That's what I'd do.

[Ged]

-1 COP Black     +1 Disenchant
(I was shocked to see no disenchant effects.  Why COP Black, anyway?  You should own Black.)

I was wondering about this statement, because sui often rapes me. Hard. I'm not trying to justify COP: Black (I'd rather put Light of Day in it's place), but would like to hear your thoughts on sui (or any black) matchup. Do you really find it that easy? Do you have any strategy tips?
thnx

[Milton]

I was wondering about this statement, because sui often rapes me. Hard. I'm not trying to justify COP: Black (I'd rather put Light of Day in it's place), but would like to hear your thoughts on sui (or any black) matchup. Do you really find it that easy? Do you have any strategy tips?
thnx

I guess it's not that easy to stop a good Sui player with a good deck.   COP Black certianly isn't a good way to stop a good Black deck, though.  

What gives you the most trouble?  Land kill (Wastes, Sinks), hand kill (Duress or Hymns) or creatures (Shades and Negators)?

Traditionally it's the discard that hurts me, but the addition of Brainstorm makes their discard less good.  Cast Brainstorm in respond to Duress or Hymn and hide your good cards.  Save your Brainstorms just for this.  Also, consider adding Misdirection.  Use Cunning Wish to find Misdirection to turn their Hymns back.  If they play a first turn Ritual, Duress, Hymn you should be able to recover if you have enought tutoring - drawing.

If it's land kill, up the number of Stifles and Misdirections.  Narrow your mana base a little bit by cutting Wastelands.  Maybe you want to include a couple of Mishra's Factories to your mana base.  An early Factory will stall out a Shade or Negator.

If it's creatures, add Lightning Bolts to your board or maindeck.  A Bolt is awesome for dealing with Negators.  In my Phid deck I can Cunning Wish for Psi Blast just in case they have a Negator early.  Also, what about Fire/Ice?  Three can really stabalize the game, killing Shades, hurting Negators and eliminating Hypnotic Specters.

Agasint black it's not about the bomb card.  Anything costing four mana should be dismissed as being too slow.  Agasint Black winning is all about card drawing and effective tutoring.  

Black will have a first turn play.  First turn Duress, first turn Ritual Negator.  Whatever.  What is your first turn answer?  What is your second turn asnwer to their Null Rod or Hymn or Sinkhole or Shade?  Suicide has no mid or late game.  They spooge their threats and disruption all over you, then they go to topdeck mode.  No real card drawing, few tutors.  

Keeper has no really good early game, unless you are packing Brainstorms or have excessive tutoring ability.  Even then, you are mostly surviving to the mid game.  If the game goes past 10 turns, Keeper will probabally win.  I say probabally because I don't think Decree tokens are enough to slow down Suicide's army.  With no Morphling or Masticore, even with an army of Decree tokens it isn't that hard for Suicide to stall out and wait to draw a big threat or a Hyppie.  So, Ish Secptors are even more important for controling the flow of the game.  Secpter and Fire/Ice would really, really slow down a good Suicide deck.  A Null Rod, however, is brutal.

[Calibus]

Here are my suggestion for your deck.

-2 Humility, +1 Fire/Ice, +1 Isochron Scepter

Humility is just not very optimal creature control.  By upping your scepter count and removal count, you should be able to just rely on an imprinted Swords to Plowshares or Fire/Ice for creature control.

-1 Misdirection, -1 Stifle (to the board), +2 Brainstorm

Misdirection is just another counter spell that you shouldn't need to rely on right now and one Stifle main and one that can be wished for should be plenty.  The ability of Brainstorm to fix your hand, protect against discard, and it's synergy with shufflers is very powerful.

-1 Undiscovered Paradise, -1 Tolarian Academy, +1 Wasteland, +1 Volcanic Island

The full multi land is pretty unnessecary now because of the sac lands and also because you are only running four colors now.  Academy has the potential to create a lot of mana which is usually semi-useless to Keeper.  You will generally have the mana you need from Mana Drain to cast your X spells.  Academy is better suited to combo decks.  The fourth Wasteland is very important against many decks that run Workshop or man lands.  And lastly, the Volcanic Island makes another source of red for your two new red spells.

-1 Zuran Orb, +1 Stroke of Genius

The life gain from Zuran Orb is usually negligable unless you are playing against sligh.  A quick Fire on a stick is just as useful.  I am a firm believer in having three X spells in the main deck to sink Mana Drain mana into.

Sideboard changes

-1 Stroke of Genius, +1 Stifle

Explained above.

-1 Misdirection, +1 Skeletal Scrying

Again, Misdirection is pretty useless and having a wishable card drawing target is pretty useful.

-1 Tormods' Crypt, -1 COP: Black, +2 Coffin Purge

I'm not quite sure why the COP: Black was in your board, but you should be able to deal with any black damage threat via Swords to Plowshares.  Tormod's Crypt while removing the entire graveyard from the game, does not do so at instant speed which puts you at a disadvantage against dragon decks.  It is also not a wishable target game one.

Well, that's about it.  I could make a whole lot more changes and make it exactly like my build but that isn't the point of your post.  I tried to stick with making changes to make your build better.  Also, keep in mind that you metagame probably differs from many other posters here and so you will have to use your judgement based on what decks you expect to face.

Calibus

[Veriest1]

The matchup versus suicide is where card disadvantage tutors shine along with the previously debated Balance. Normally against sui I try to counter chalice/null rod and make it my goal to get Balance on top of the library at the last possible second. This, of course, is aided by Brainstorms hiding the tutors for a couple of turns.  

Suicide is also who the Misdirections work well against.

EDIT DUE TO MISREADING:
If your having this much trouble with suicide add City of Brass and green so you can Regrowth Balance.  The old school method of Time Twister could work as well.

[Cuandoman]

Ok its obvious to me that you want to play BOTH Scepter and Humility, and that's fine. With that in mind I think that you need more F/I and Brainstorms.

The most glaring part of the list though is your mana base. As milton said, you need 4 Tundra. Think about what you use your wastes on cause if its not for mana denial then uping the count is always good too.

On a whole Milton's advise is solid, but i can understand your wanting to keep the scepters. Hey, if it works for you, keep it.

[Ged]

@Milton
Thanks for your reply.

What gives me the most trouble? What doesn't?

My metagame is very mixed (control, combo, quite a lot of aggro, no workshop yet). I think that I can't devote a portion of MD just to the sui matchup. That means that I'm not running MisD in MD. I'm running two StoP's and F/I maindeck (deck is based on Zherbus list, along with 1 Humility, no Scepters, 2 Cwish), and it seems that usually I'm on a wrong end of Ritual-Duress-Hymn... soon followed by negator/hypnotic/shade and/or sinkohle/wasteland/null rod.

Brainstorm helps a lot - if I get a turn, as well fetchies give me at least U once... but because of everything above I was trying to put a bomb in the SB, like old Keeper used to. Light of Day works (enchantment and black don't go well together) IF I manage to cast it.

The main problem is in fact tightness of maindeck & sideboard - I probably could make sui a better matchup, but would lose much against other decks (from Hulk to Madness)... and I'd hate that.

One question about playing. I usually Force the first Ritual if I can. Right or wrong?

And could you share some tips on sideboarding? Keep one wish MD? Put vampiric in? What about stifles? They are good against Wastelands and nothing else. In or out? To me, it seems like 90% of winning in Magic is to know when to mulligan and how to sideboard... the rest can be netdecked .

Last SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Coffin Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Damping Matrix
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Light of Day
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Hibernation
1 COP: Red

@Veriest1
I don't think I'd go the 'green route' any time soon. It would dilute my mana base too much and I think it's not worth it.

@PacmanXSA
Sorry for hijacking your thread.

[Milton]

The main problem is in fact tightness of maindeck & sideboard - I probably could make sui a better matchup, but would lose much against other decks (from Hulk to Madness)... and I'd hate that.

That's the real problem, isn't it?  You can't make your deck so that it beats everything.  You just can't.  In fact, the more flexible you make your deck the less focus you have and, in effect, you can't beat anything.  

What are your metagame decks that give you fits?  You should have a skeleton of a Keeper deck that is about 48 - 50 cards.  The other 10 - 12 cards are always up in the air.  Tweak your deck so it can beat the dominat or most common decks in your metagame.  Then focus your board on as much as you can.  Don't worry about decks you never face.  For example, I never see Dragon.  I don't worry about it.  If Dragon makes an apperance at a tournament, I guess I'll fight as much as I can, but it's not a favorable match-up at all.

As for the Suicide match-up, your deck is strongest when you are going first and potentially have access to Balance.  Brainstorms and tutors are great, they keep you alive.  Vamp is very good too in that it can fetch Balance around their discard spells.

If they have Null Rod, you potentiall lose all of your Scepters.  By the way, I don't like Scepters at all.  Casting Scepter and imprinting a spell is inherent card disadvantage and it takes a while to recover from that disadvantage, especially against Suicide, which can cast a Null Rod easily and quickly.

Anyway, a good Keeper deck looks like this:

4 Drain
4 Force

1 Mystical
1 Demonic
1 Balance
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral
1 Yag Will
1 Mindtwist

4 Brainstorm
2-3 Cunning Wish

Mana - 26
4 Fetchlands
4 Moxes
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus
3 - 4 Wastelands
1 Stripmine
1 Library of Alexanderia
3-4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
2-3 Volcanic Islands
0-1 Island

The general consensus is that Brainstorm is a must and that Green is not included anymore.  I agree with that consensus.  I also agree that Cunning Wish is very important.

The rest is up to you.  Scepter or not?  Decree or not?  Shaman or not?  Stifle or not?  How much card drawing?  Skeletal Scrying?  What does the sideboard look like?

My answer is simple.  Go for focus.  Don't try to cover all the bases.  You can't.  As for me...
-I don't like Stifle.
-Shaman is very situational and not for all metagames.
-Card drawing wins games.
-Misdirection is very underrated right now.
-Decree is great, but not beefy enough to hold off a horde of creatures.
-I'm still up in the air on Scepter.
-Damping Matrix is situational.

That's me.  I like Red right now.  Fire/Ice is great.  Plow is great.  Rack and Ruin is great.  Duress is OK.  Skeletal Scrying and Fact, or Accumulate Knowledge?

If Suicide is a problem my manabase looks like this:
1 Island
3 Wasteland
1 Strip
1 Library
4 Fetchlands
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic
3 Underground Sea
4 Moxes
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus



So, after taking the base of the deck, I add a Misdirection.  I like Misdirection a lot right now.

Then I add three Decree of Justice to slow down the horde of bad guys comming my way.  I add a Humility too.  

I go two Fire/Ice, two Swords to Plowshares.  Three Cunning Wish because it's just a great card.

That gives me 57 cards.  I need some drawing, so I add two Skeletal Scrying and a Fact or Fiction.  That gives me 60 cards.

My deck looks like this:

26 Mana

4 Drain
4 Force
1 Misdirectoin

1 Mystical
1 Demonic
1 Balance
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral
1 Yag Will
1 Mindtwist
2 Skeletal Scrying
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish

2 Swords
2 Fire/Ice
3 Degree of Justice
1 Humility

Board:
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Disenchant
1 Dominate
1 Fire/Ice
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Swords
1 Misdirection
1 Stifle
3 Red Blasts
1 Humility
1 Blue Blast

Very focused.  No tricks.  No Shaman or Matrixes or Stifles that may sit dead in your hand.  Really, the only four dead cards might be Misdirect, Swords and Humility.  And those cards are really dead in very, very few match-ups.

Good luck.

[Smmenen]

Fascinating.

When I would play Keeper - I remember I was never satisified with my decklist.  I would sit down and separate the list into card drawing/tutoring, mana, win conditions, defense, and recursion.

The most focused list had one Morphling as the win condition with one Stroke and Gyser as backup.  

Building Keeper.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  There is good reason not to be satisfied with any list.

Keeper is a Control Metagame deck - not an individual archetype - it has the best answers to Type One threats and is composed of such cards.  It merely has the appearance of being an archetype because some of the cards have been in the deck so long that they have the appearance of constituting an archetype rather than being the best answers the format has to offer.

As such, any Keeper design should be metagame specific - in other words *built for a metagame*.  With that in mind, building a proper keeper with the best chance of winning depends upon your metagame.   With that view of keeper in mind, I think it is far more understandable why Keeper can perform well in highly competitive metagames.  Otherwise, Keeper can appear to many as a pile of good cards in a terrible deck.

Steve

[Veriest1]

@Veriest1
I don't think I'd go the 'green route' any time soon. It would dilute my mana base too much and I think it's not worth it.

Sorry, the whole green thing was meant to emphasize the greatness of Balance against Suicide... obviously against 4 Sinkholes + 5 Strip effects green would probably be the worst idea. Besides, recursion is covered by Yagmoth's Will.

In an aggro meta would you consider going to The Abyss and Morphling? The Abyss offers hard card advantage instead of pseudo without Fire/Ice or decree to help it out.

[Ged]

@Milton
That is the main problem. Trying to cover all the bases, whole deck dilutes too much. But I can't help myself .

Thanks for sharing your decklist. Looks like it would be good in my meta. I'll try something similar (we do not want to netdeck, do we )?

There's also a problem of Skeletal Scrying in aggro meta. It's so damn good, but it hurts against fast aggro. OTOH, there's never enough drawing, and Scrying is the best of the rest (Stroke & Geyser, even Future Sight) by far.

As well, I can't make my mind on Zuran Orb. More testing, I guess.


@Smmenen
I'm not sure if you answered Milton's or my post... anyway, I'm not talking to you until you write something about Keeper.


@Veriest1
I love my Morphling. It's a great feeling to have a four turn clock that protects itself. I almost cryied when it got replaced with DoJ. However, seems like DoJ has surpassed the Superman in todays metagame. I think that DoJ is better in the early game (can't be countered (almost), instant, no fear of tapping out, replaces itself) and that's what counts. If I'm in control, and I'm able to put Morphling down, it usually means that I could as well win with almost any other creature.

As for Abyss, there are some people that will swear on it. But than you'd have to run Morphling, because of the lack of sinergy with DoJ. And, I found it ineffective against Tog decks. And you will meet Tog. Not that Humility is much better in that matchup, but DoJ's are.

For me, Humility + DoJ >> Abyss + Morphling even in an aggro meta.

But, as Smmenen said, Keeper is just 'the metagame deck'. It my work for you (especialy if you play Stompy or Sligh all day long, in which case Moat would be even better).

[Rayden]

I see no reason to cut stifle, atleast not for a misd. Stifling a fetch land is such a tempo hoser in every. Sure its situational, but almost every card is.. you just have to take advantage of every situation.

[Gaea]

Just a question why no one is playing chalices? I found them very good playing this deck, they can stop aggro decks, combo and sometimes also control, i think that keeper needs them, if suicide is your problem, chalice can be your solution.
I don't think also that playing 3 decree is a good choice, they are too much and place is the first problem of every keeper.
I do not think stifle is a keeper card, maybe one in sideboard, but i don't think there is place in this deck cause 1 is unuseful 2 are too much too fit, so why you want to play them? instead you need shaman, they are so good, vs combo, artifacts and other keeper, but i don't know your meta so...

[Moxlotus]

Noone uses Chalice because no matter what you set it for you always end up stopping a bunch of cards in your deck.