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Author Topic: Welder MUD's SB'ing plans  (Read 1511 times)
AltronDragon
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« on: January 31, 2004, 09:19:16 pm »

I have been playing welder mudd/stax for a while.  At first I just playtested it on workstation but I completed the deck a couple months ago.  Anyways, I think I have become pretty proficient in playing the deck but I have always had problems with one aspect of the deck.  Sideboarding.  The deck list is so tight that I always have some real problems trying to figure out what to cut.  Before I continue this is what I have been playing.

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
2 City of Traitors
7 Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grafted Skullcap
1 Memory Jar
1 Mindslaver

2 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker

SB:
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Jester's Cap
2 Null Brooch
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Triskelion

There a few decks in my metagame that I consider prominent that will typically show up:  (These decks are fully powered/updated)
Hulk
Mudd
Dragon
TnT
The following decks are things that might appear and I need to be ready for but not as severely as the above decklists.
Lil kid.dec
Keeper
Ophidian (u/r)
Affinity
Nether Void
Rector
TPS

My sideboard is pretty self explanatory except I think I might be overdoing it on the crypts/triskelions.  I am not sure if 4 crypts is too many or if I am probably better off cutting one to open space for something else.  Also the 3 Triskelions are there for random kids/aggro that shows up but I think having 3 might be too many considering its CC.  

Are there any suggestions to changes in my deck/sb for the 4 major matchups that I listed?  Also what would be a typical sb'ing strategy towards those decks?  If possible please list reasonings why you took out something over something else because like I said earlier the decklist is so tight I have problems siding stuff out.

Sorry if this stuff has been asked/covered before in another area.  I haven't had the free time to read as much as I would like lately.  Thanks for any assistance.

Altron
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Gaea
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2004, 04:01:24 am »

I've played ws decks for 6 months since i buyed my 4 ws, welder mud is one of my favourites (with TNT), I' was playing a version a little bit different:

Mana base:
the same except that i play 1 only city, and i never screw, try to cut it, 1 room is very important

Creatures:
the same nothing to say

Lock:
I was playing only 3 chalice of the void and no mindslaver, i cut slaver cause it was never necessary, what i want to say is when i'm locking my opponent karn is enough and is better, if i'm not locking i'm gonna lose soon, so i cut it, cause i prefer to keep just necessary cards, and it's also another room for you.
Seeing that in your meta there are mud and TnT i would suggest you to put 3 fire/ice (welder burn!) in the 3 free slots, i played them cause in my meta there were lots of lock decks and sligh/goblin/zoo (with vandal, shaman...)

For your meta I would suggest this side:

3 tormod's crypt
3 rack and ruin
2 blood moon (can stop also bazaar)
2 reb
3 pyrostatic pillar
2 winter orb

This was my normally side plan:

HULK:
+2 reb
+2 winter orb
+2 blood moon
+2 tormod crypt
-3 fire/ice (hulk doesnt' have little creatures)
-2 tangle wire (i prefer to lock with an orb/blood, vs an hulk deck is better)
-3 chalice of the void (my sideboarded cards are better lock than a simple chalice)

DRAGON:
+2 blood moon
+2 reb
+3 tormod crypt
-1 memory jar (is not good to put cards in his graveyard)
-4 tangle wire (with necromancy/intuition ecc... he can act in his upkeep )

TNT:
+3 tormod crypt
+3 rack and ruin
-4 sphere of resistance (may seem an horrible thing to cut them, but playing both decks i saw that a sphere is never game vs a tnt)
-1 vault
-1 crypt
(i cut these two cause having no sphere i do not need so much mana as before and also cause they damage me, sometimes crypt dealt me 12 damages...)

MUDD:
the same as tnt
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defector
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2004, 08:08:03 pm »

I run stax, but have played welder/mud
  My sideboard:
REB X4
Blood Moon X3
Tormod's X3
The last 5 are usually one of's one Chalice with 3 main, 1 Jester's Cap, 1 Triskellion.  Little tweaks more meta dependant or representative of trying to smooth out the main deck.  Gooid luck.
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Toad
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2004, 04:21:28 am »

Your decklist is pretty standard but really good. I strongly advice you to cut the 2 City of Traitors for 2 Ancient Tomb. They are better in early game and in late game you should not use them that much so the drawback is not really annoying. The lone Mindslaver is a bit janky, and does not really fit well in the deck's strategy. You'd rather play another lock component over this, such as Powder Keg or Gorilla Shaman (mana denial theme). Note that I'm running 1 less land (6 Mountains), which allows me to play 2 Gorilla Shaman MD.

My current SB is
4 Tormod's Crypt -- needed, never go less than 4, especially considering your metagame.
4 Rack and Ruin  -- same.
4 Blood Moon -- Hulk, Dragon.
3 Ensnaring Bridge -- superior to Fire/Ice or Pyrite Spellbomb at stopping fatties.

REB are useless considering you run Grafted Skullcap. Null Brooch is better if you want countering abilities.


@Gaea.
Why would you bring Tormod's Crypts against MUD? They are really useless.
And don't cut the Chalice of the Void against Hulk. A resolved Chalice for 2 is almost game.
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Gaea
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2004, 11:08:08 am »

Tormod can remove opponent's graveyard so he can't use his welder.
If you cast a 2 chalice vs a tog he can cast tog, wish and deed, if you want to keep it cast to 3
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I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor.
You cannot pass.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun.
Go back to the Shadow.
You cannot pass!"
Toad
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2004, 11:30:40 am »

Quote from: Gaea
Tormod can remove opponent's graveyard so he can't use his welder.


Except:

* MUD does not run Goblin Welder. wMUD and MUD are really different decks.
* The opponent's Goblin Welder can still play with your own graveyard, and you shut down your abilities to play with your opponent's graveyard.

The second point is the main reason Tormod's Crypt is pretty weak in Welder based Prison mirrors. If you want additional SB cards for this matchup, then up your Rack and Ruin count or add some Fire/Ice (they kill the Metalworker too) or Pyrite Spellbomb (metagame call if you want to run these maindeck, I tend to prefer Pyrite Spellbomb because you *can't* use Ice against Control or Combo to cycle it).

And don't cut Mana Vault and Mana Crypt in this matchup. They put Karn or Rack and Ruin online faster, which is what you want to do.

Quote from: Gaea
If you cast a 2 chalice vs a tog he can cast tog, wish and deed, if you want to keep it cast to 3


Yup, but he can't cast Mana Drain, Accumulated Knowledge, Time Walk or Naturalize. This will buy you time to pile up additional lock Components, to cripple him with Wastelands or an active Smokestack, or to find another Chalice you can cast for 3. Chalice of the Void is one of your best weapon against Tog.

As a general advice, don't use Pyrostatic Pillar in wMUD's sideboard. You are not planning to win fast, hence your opponent doesn't care at all about taking damage from the Pillar. This is not Stacker or TNT.
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AltronDragon
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AltronDrgn718
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2004, 02:55:46 pm »

Quote from: Toad
I strongly advice you to cut the 2 City of Traitors for 2 Ancient Tomb.


Actually I have been considering this as well.  The more I played with cities the more I disliked them.  


Quote

You'd rather play another lock component over this, such as Powder Keg or Gorilla Shaman (mana denial theme). Note that I'm running 1 less land (6 Mountains), which allows me to play 2 Gorilla Shaman MD.


You are only playing w/ 6 mountains AND added gorilla shamans?  Not all that often but sometimes I get stuck without any red mana and it seems like this could cause some problems.  I was thinking of cutting one mana source as well but maybe cutting a city/tomb instead.  Have you really not had problems casting them?

Yes, the mindslaver was janky and it so far has been more of a test card.  It will probably be cut.  Finally, I was thinking about putting lavamancers in instead of where you placed shaman.  It kills opposing welders/workers and random aggro that shows up at time.  (I forgot to mention that I expect landstill/fish decks as well.)  Obviously, it doesn't have a lot of synergy with welder but wastelands and other lands in the grave don't really have any other purpose.  Have you heard of anyone testing lavamancers?  If so, how have they performed?

Finally, when you play against hulk what do you typically side out for the blood moons?
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