Mean Green

[serialjester]

I got the basic idea of this from Diceman, who posted on the old TMD a Eureka/Sneak Attack deck which looked pretty good and alot of fun to play. I'm not a big fan of Sneak Attack, though I've been a huge fan of Eureka since the Nicol Bolas days, so it inspired Me to work on a monogreen version, something that would be cool and unexpected. I took a month or so off from online stuff, and just found out about Oshawa Stompy, which looks great and in alot of cases better than My deck, but I still think My list is worth posting and debating.

"Mean Green"

4 Eureka
4 Natural Order

4 Sylvan Library
3 Timesifter

4 Ravenous Baloth
4 Plated Slagwurm
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Verdant Force
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Gigapede
1 Silklash Spider

1 Memory Jar

13 Forest
1 Lotus
1 Emerald
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Ancient Tomb

Where this deck differs from alot of other green decks is the ability to take additional turns via Timesifter. Yeah, it's a double edged sword. It's screwed Me over in the past, and there's matchups it is horrible against, but it is an amazing tool if you can manipulate your deck and give yourself better odds of winning the battle over converted mana cost. Sylvan Library allows you to do this, and it lets you win with a single threat on the board, often just running over an opponent with the brokenness you're able to drop into play off Eureka/Natural Order or just hardcasting the creatures. It's important thusly that the casting cost of the creatures be high, and that the deck be able to fuel them efficiently and quickly. This deck has 27 mana sources in it, but in reality alot of them are 1 time shots. Both ESG and Ancient Tomb are treated as one time only mana sources, as the Tomb gets wasted very regularly and it's not something that can be counted on to stay out for a very long time. Regardless it is crucial to the deck, as it powers out 2nd turn Eureka/Natural Order/Baloth with a regularity that is awesome.

Alot of the creatures serve specific roles, which allows Me to maximize the use of Natural Order to punish whatever the opponent is playing. If I see any Plains early, I'll go for a Slagwurm to stop the StP from wrecking the gameplan, and against black I'll get Symbiotic Wurm to minimize the damage an EOT Edict causes Me. Silklash Spider is for Angel tokens, Spectres, Morphling and really anything else that flies, since none of My creatures do. Gigapede is just great card advantage that has won Me many games against control.

Why the Memory Jar? This deck likes to make explosive plays, and green really doesn't have a way to draw alot of cards to do this with, so the Jar fills in the gaps. Like the Timesifter, and sometimes like Eureka this can be a double edged sword, but in all honesty if you play this deck you have to accept that you're sometimes going to get screwed over by your own stuff, and just be as aggressive and balls to the wall as you can be. The potential for 2 first turn Slagwurms and other assorted beef is just too good to pass up.

Sideboard varies, but usually consists of some amount of the following:

Molder Slug-Very difficult for Workshop decks to kill/deal with. I like attacking with a 4/6 Shatter targetting you.
Ground Seal-Obvious Dragon/Welder hoser.
Root Maze-One of those crap cards I loved 5 years ago that is suddenly good.
Carpet of Flowers-Side in for Vineyards against blue, especially Tog. Giving Tog free mana makes everyone, especially baby jesus cry.
Naturalize-All Around Good(TM)
Chalice of the Void-This deck can make some fat Chalices fast, akin to Workshop decks. The one game where I went Forest ESG ESG Lotus Chalice for 3 1st turn against Tog comes to mind.
City of Solitude-Another anti control hoser
Damping Matrix-Initially this was Cursed Totem, but the one extra mana means nothing, and this deck loves the Matrix because it still lets Me use the Elves for mana if need be.

I've beaten Keeper, monoblack, most Sligh decks(lost twice to Food Chain because of his broken draws both times) and Fish with a great deal of regularity, and have had average to marginal success against Tog and the various Workshop decks. Dragon handed over My ass on a silver platter, but that was before the sideboarding of Root Maze. Haven't gotten to play anything else with the deck, I get to play at a decent sized T1 tournament once a week, and that's really it. It's a rough deck, but it has some potential because it can really be insanely broken way too often.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, even flames. It's the internet, taking something on here personally is lame.

[bebe]

Looking at the mana base Sundering Titan seems a good option although I would want to test it some. Also, why not use some Swarms?

[serialjester]

Looking at the mana base Sundering Titan seems a good option although I would want to test it some. Also, why not use some Swarms?

I haven't gotten to test anything from Darksteel at all because of work, though the Titan would be one of the few things I'd be willing to try. I love Swarms in almost anything but this deck, because this is a deck that actually likes high casting cost spells, because of Timesifter. I'd really like Swarms against Tog though, which I see often enough to warrant testing them, My concern with them is the casting cost, which might not matter if I can use the Swarms to give free reign to casting a Slagwurm. Timesifter isn't the be all end all of this deck, that's for sure. Thanks.

[dicemanx]

Original build, but I have two concerns:

1) You have 7 fat creatures to go with the Eureka. That count seems pretty low, which means that the power of the Eurekas will not be as consistent. It's hard to resolve this issue, because adding more fat decreases the early game threats. The choice of fat is also an issue - Slagwurms are great at stopping removal, but they have no evasion or secondary abilities which might cause problems when other aggro decks try to race you. I'd at least think about ramping the Verdant count to 4 if possible, since Verdants are good against just about everything including Sligh and wMUD/Stax. Still, the creature base is ultimately meta dependent.

2) Natural Order is a very interesting idea. The only problem is with the number of targets. 4 Elves is very little, and I pretty sure that you cannot rely on sacrificing ESGs or even Baloths, as that would be a pretty slow plan on average. BoPs(or Fyndhorn Elves) would be one suggestion, but of course it's difficult to add them when considering the Timesifters. Still, I'd actually give some thought to cutting ESGs for BoPs/Elves. ESG doesn't look right in this deck, because this deck wants permanent mana sources, not one-shot deals.

This deck does look like a blast to play though, and you have the right attitude - you need a balls-to-the-wall approach when dealing with so many expensive, symmetrical cards which might end up screwing you over.

[Fëanor]

Hey, I took a brief look at Dicemanx's version, and i get the reasons for the cards. This is a teeny thing, but there's no specific reason to play Llanowar Elves, so why not play Birds of Paradise. I'm just saying it because not only is it a chump blocker (not that you'll really need it come to see) but if you ever need to splash for SB or maindeck, they'll be there for you.

The combo is very cool, but it does have its obvious weaknesses, countermagic really enjoys Eureka, esp Drain.
if you're planning on not upsetting the mana, then I'd understand why you wouldnt want to add more fun stuff like Mind's Desire, Show and Tell, Dream halls, FUTURE SIGHT!!! omg. It's the only way I see that you could win over control...overwhelm them.

Ah, I can see it now: Bargain + big creatures + Angelic Chorus...mmm

Peace

[Razor]

I have been meaning to test this deck for a week.  I'll post it for discussion having done no testing, sorry.  I hope that it may give others ideas for their Eureka decks.

//Name: Iso-Stompy GW v.1.3
//Inspired by Diceman_X's Skull.Dec
//ray@skeleton.org
//2004-Jan-28
//Cards: 60
//
//Mana: 27
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Forest
4 Plains
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Peral
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
//
//Critters: 12
4 Exalted Angel
4 Eternal Dragon
2 Verdant Force
2 Serra Avatar
//
//Combo: 8
4 Eureka
2 Sylvan Library
1 Regrowth
1 Enlightened Tutor
//
//Disruption: 13
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Abeyance
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
1 Balance
//
//SB: 15
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
2 Energy Flux
1 Moat
//
//Considerations:
//Natural Order
//Phantom Nishoba
//lotta elves
//Gaea's Blessing
//Eladamri's Vineyards
//Armadillo Cloak
//Spirit Link
//Dragon Breath
//Mystic Enforcer
//Decree of Justice
//Living Wish
//Masticore
//Reya Dawnbringer
//Orim's Chant
//Seal of Cleansing
//Squee
//Survival of the Fittest
//Penumbra Wurm
//Replenish
//Story Circle
//Bazaar of Baghdad
//Insist
//Petrified Fields
//riftstone portals
//BoPs
//Zombie Infestation/Squee
//end

[serialjester]

Original build, but I have two concerns:

1) You have 7 fat creatures to go with the Eureka. That count seems pretty low, which means that the power of the Eurekas will not be as consistent. It's hard to resolve this issue, because adding more fat decreases the early game threats. The choice of fat is also an issue - Slagwurms are great at stopping removal, but they have no evasion or secondary abilities which might cause problems when other aggro decks try to race you. I'd at least think about ramping the Verdant count to 4 if possible, since Verdants are good against just about everything including Sligh and wMUD/Stax. Still, the creature base is ultimately meta dependent.

2) Natural Order is a very interesting idea. The only problem is with the number of targets. 4 Elves is very little, and I pretty sure that you cannot rely on sacrificing ESGs or even Baloths, as that would be a pretty slow plan on average. BoPs(or Fyndhorn Elves) would be one suggestion, but of course it's difficult to add them when considering the Timesifters. Still, I'd actually give some thought to cutting ESGs for BoPs/Elves. ESG doesn't look right in this deck, because this deck wants permanent mana sources, not one-shot deals.

This deck does look like a blast to play though, and you have the right attitude - you need a balls-to-the-wall approach when dealing with so many expensive, symmetrical cards which might end up screwing you over.

On your points:

1: Yeah, the fat count is low, what I've been doing is relying on the initial fattie hitting the board, riding that as long as possible and just winning. The fact that Slagwurm has no evasion is a big problem, and one I addressed for awhile with Silvos, and have been considering addressing with Living Hive, since it's a big trampler that makes chump blockers, and has a good casting cost to have removed with the Sifter. My metagame HAS determined the creature base alot, especially with the Spider in there, since I see alot of Spectres and Angel tokens, it's been imperative to stop those. The Gigapede is one creature I would drop for another Verdant Force, and maybe one of the Slagwurms to up the count to 4, since they are ridiculous against just about everything.

2: I do sacrifice ESG at least somewhat regularly,  and sometimes just drop him out as a 2/2 when I Eureka. Just as many times though I've removed him 1st turn to drop a Sylvan out or go Forest, Elf, remove ESG and play Vineyard, which gives Me a good 2nd turn, which is what this deck thrives on. I have thought about BOP before, but that was in a different build which dropped the Timesifter altogether and used the Sylvan/Abundance combo to generate insane card advantage and threat potential with Eureka. Still, there have been a number of times where I would have liked to have consistent mana, as monoblack is rather big here, so Wastes and Sinks are all over the place.

I'll give your suggestions a try, I've been doing remarkably good with the deck for awhile now, but there are holes and there are things that give Me fits, namely how crucial it is to generate an insane amount of mana within the first 3 turns so I can reliably cast half of this stuff.

Feanor, I'm trying to keep it monogreen, since splash this and splash that have been done and lately I've been really dedicated to monocolour decks, maybe it's the metagame I have but I am really sick of Wasteland.

[spankweasel]

I proxied this deck up last night to play and I'm having a TON of fun.  I really think this deck needs a couple of things to really make it flow:

4 green Fetchlands - This is to shuffle away the crap that Sylvan Library is throwing at you.  If you can punt land away with a shuffle effect, you may be able to cut to a higher casting cost critter with Timesifter on the table

Worldly Tutor.  I want to add this card, because if I have the win locked in, and I just need to swing once or more, I can tutor up a Slagwurm and place him on top so Timesifter owns again.  Maybe in the board

Also, Concordant Crossroads could be a total house.  Giving my fat haste is good.

I also think the creature base is a little skewed.

Here's what I'm running (it's almost exactly the same as the original build)

3 Eureka
4 Natural Order

4 Sylvan Library
3 Timesifter

4 Llanowar Elves

4 Verdent Force
4 Plated Slagwurm
2 Ravenous Baloth <-- These should be more fat.  Maybe 2 more Nishoba
1 Gigapede
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Silvos

2 Concordant Crossroads
1 Memory Jar <--- not sold on this yet.  I like it, but it's really slow in this deck.

9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
4 ESG
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
3 Ancient Tomb

I'm not working on a board right now as I want to make this deck function in general.  Good luck in the tourney, btw!

[serialjester]

I proxied this deck up last night to play and I'm having a TON of fun.  I really think this deck needs a couple of things to really make it flow:

4 green Fetchlands - This is to shuffle away the crap that Sylvan Library is throwing at you.  If you can punt land away with a shuffle effect, you may be able to cut to a higher casting cost critter with Timesifter on the table

Worldly Tutor.  I want to add this card, because if I have the win locked in, and I just need to swing once or more, I can tutor up a Slagwurm and place him on top so Timesifter owns again.  Maybe in the board

Also, Concordant Crossroads could be a total house.  Giving my fat haste is good.

I also think the creature base is a little skewed.

Here's what I'm running (it's almost exactly the same as the original build)

3 Eureka
4 Natural Order

4 Sylvan Library
3 Timesifter

4 Llanowar Elves

4 Verdent Force
4 Plated Slagwurm
2 Ravenous Baloth <-- These should be more fat.  Maybe 2 more Nishoba
1 Gigapede
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Silvos

2 Concordant Crossroads
1 Memory Jar <--- not sold on this yet.  I like it, but it's really slow in this deck.

9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
4 ESG
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
3 Ancient Tomb

I'm not working on a board right now as I want to make this deck function in general.  Good luck in the tourney, btw!

Thanks, I've been playing this deck for quite awhile now, and it's really starting to get good. On a couple of your points:

I don't like Fetchlands in this deck, even with the awesome synergy with Sylvan Library. I'd rather have true to form lands in My deck than lands that get other lands. Since you've been playing it you'll notice that the deck loves alot of mana, since it can just unleash wave after wave of beef, even in the face of disruption. Also I pay the 4 life for Sylvan card drawing alot should I not have an Abundance out, which adds up fast. I don't think fetchland damage is something I can stomach in the face of what My metagame consists of.

Concordant Crossroads is decent, but the one card I'd run for haste in this deck is Lightning Greaves, since it makes your creatures untargetable as well, which obviously has its benefits.

I'd add Wordly Tutor to this deck if I ever went with Isochron Sceptre, which I've been tempted to a few times. Worldly Tutor, Krosan Reclamation, Naturalize/Oxidize are the main imprint choices there, though old school cards like Avoid Fate are starting to looking interesting as well. Worldly on a stick would be great deck manipulation with Timesifter, that's for sure.

4 Eurekas is mandatory in the deck, because you want to maximize your ability to draw them, as well as be able to work around counters/discard which hurt your ability to cast it.

Nishoba is something I'd love to run, but I'm dedicated very seriously to keeping My version monogreen. Were I to splash any colour, it would be white though, given the possibilities and strengths of many of the cards. That's a different deck, however.

Memory Jar is kind of slow, but it does form a combo with Eureka, which can be devastating. The only matchup where I was unhappy with the Jar was against Sligh, since most of the time it just put burn and more burn into their hands, which they used to damage Me or whatever I dropped into play off Eureka. It's also great since you'll dump your hand fairly easily and get stuck in topdeck mode, which sucks.

With that in Mind, I'd like to say that Timesifter is utterly broken, but it is NOT the card to play in Eureka decks. I've been testing something else, and when I get to run it through My tournament gambit on Monday I'll be able to say for sure if it's the real deal, but yeah it's broken. Timesifter is almost it's own deck, maybe requiring a completely different direction.