[Deck/Discussion] Lattice Prison

[riggy]

With the rise of aggro, this may not be the best timed deck ever, but, it entertained the heck out of me so here's my idea.

A blue-(color of choice, detailed below) prison deck based on Mycosynth Lattice and Null Rod. A two card combo that once in play cannot be removed short of ESG-Oxidize. The only other way around it is Madness in the form of Basking Rootwalla.
EDIT: As mentioned in later posts, Affinity is the last way out of the lock.

So my idea is to play a small threat or two, then drop the combo. I've considered Cloud of Faeries (for their cycling ability and free-mechanic) and since they would be a freebie, I've wanted to add the Rootwallas myself.

My first choice is to play U/r with plenty of artifact hate and use Gorilla Shamans as my beaters. They have the added effect that under a lattice but without the null rod, they eat lands as well as moxen.  Great control up until the rod hits.

The problem with u/r is dealing with a large critter prior to the combo going off. The difference b/w this deck and other combo decks is that when the combo goes off, it's whoever has the bigger threat on the board wins. Probably not the most stable of win conditions given the rise of aggro.

So here's a possible decklist so those better than I can look and evaluate the idea of the combo (rather than evaluate the deck itself):

Mana: 27
4x Mishra's Workshops
4x Ancient Tombs
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Volcanic Islands
4x Polluted Deltas
7x SoloMoxen
3x Islands

Lock: 8
4x Null Rods
4x Mycosynth Lattice

Draw/Control: 17
4x Mana Drains
4x Force of Wills
4x Brainstorms
2x Capsize
1x TimeWalk
1x Ancestral
1x Tinker

Kill: 8
4x Gorilla Shaman
4x Goblin Welder, Jackal Pups, or Basking Rootwalla

A seemingly stronger alternative would be to sub in green for red: Adding 4 ESGs and a Channel to augment the mana base, and using any of the decent green critters to kill. I'm rather keen on the idea of Gorilla Shamans and Mycosynth Lattice so I haven't come up with a decklist for this color combo.

A final alternative would be to splash black for Diabloic Edicts and Demonic/Vampiric Tutor. Again no decklist for this variant.

Thanks for your opinions in advance,

Michael

[Pern]

If you up the count of zero costs artifacts
you set yourself up to cast free Frogmites.

[b_1e1_n]

I'd definetly run an artifact creature as the kill, especially with Tinker.
I also don't like Mox and Sol ring in this deck if you run 4 Null rods and will be searching for them.  Also, what happens if they just have creatures out and you lock?  2 Capsize and 8 counters won't save you there.  What happens when they just play normal creatures that attack and you can't counter?

Maybe I am missing something here, but this deck seems to only work to stop mana producers and about 12 of your own cards.

[DB]

What happens when they just play normal creatures that attack and you can't counter?

I think in order to play the deck correctly you wouldn't lock the game up if they have creatures down.  There probably should be *some* creature removal with all this madness madness running around.

Maybe I am missing something here, but this deck seems to only work to stop mana producers and about 12 of your own cards.

Well, with Mycosynth Lattice turning eveything thing into artifacts and null rod shutting down artifacts, no one would be able to use land to cast anything.  It would basically lock the game state to whoever has creatures out, wins.

[ReAnimator]

i have a deck that im testing in T2 right now that runs Latice and march of the machines
this combo has the advantage of giving you a 6/6 and 4/4 when it comes into play, it also compleatly destroys all land and no one can play lands ever again (as long as the combo is in play). having those big creatures can help contain the aggro hoards, This got me thinking that propaganda may be good in here.

I then realized that March was a reprint and that titanias song acctualy does what null rod does but gives you a 6/6 and 4/4 and destroys all land
it might be worth trying it seems twice as strong as Rod

Titainia's Song (current errata)
Enchantment 3G
Each noncreature artifact loses its abilities and becomes an artifact creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. If Titania's Song leaves play, this effect continues until end of turn.

I have zero experiance with workshop decks so im not going to try and hack one together but i hope this helps

[DEA]

hmm
with traditional stax and weldermud, you'll realise one thing
you'll either get the early lock and shut them out completely, or they'll break out of it and rush you
stax and weldermud can recover by abusing tanglewire and smokestacks
how do you intend to do that with this deck?

creature removal is a must
evacuation at eot sounds possible
next turn drop null rod after a few creatures, gg

[Toad]

Good luck for casting Mana Drain with your mana base. You can't support the UU in early game.

[riggy]

That's a third way out of the prison that I didn't think about: affinity. Not that it's overly viable in type 1, but I suppose it's out there. So perhaps a few frogmites for post lock. That way, I won't have to have a creature in play prior to dropping the lock.

Also, at a darksteel draft last Friday, my friend used Lattice + Echoing Ruin as a mini-armageddon. An interesting choice for mass-removal. Probably sideboard for decks like O.Stompy and Fish that run lots of basic lands.

@Toad:
I realized the UU was going to be a problem early on. I debated dropping the Ancient Tombs/some off-color moxen  for 4 more Islands.  Since this was just a quick decklist, I wasn't too worried about the feasibility of the current decklist as I was about the feasibility of the combo as a whole.

I'm going to work on revising the decklist and I'll try posting something else later today.

[Carlos El Salvador]

There is one more way of winning you havn't thought of.

Darksteel Reactor!

Why would you use this?  Well, it comes down faster than your lock, and assuming all is well with your lock, then you just ride it out to victory.  If I am correct, Only Neo-long can break the lock with a double ESG naturalize...  It's cheezy as all hell, but it will win you the game in 20 turns.  That is the truth of draw-go.

[ill_Dawg]

I've been working on something similiar, and I think I've taken care of a few of your problems.  Myr Enforcer comes out for free and beats hard even after the lock is in place, and Hurkyl's Recall takes care of your opponant's board with a lattice in play.  Hurkyl's also goves you an out if you need to drop an early null rod against combo and later decide you need to use your artifacts.

Limp Dick.dec

3 Null Rod
3 Mycocynth Lattice

3 Thirst for Knowlege
4 Thoughtcast
1 Wheel
1 Windfall
1 Frantic Search
1 Ancestral
1 Jar

3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Tinker

4 Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Myr Enforcer

3 Lightning Greaves

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Volc
4 fetch
1 island
1 mountain
7 SoLoMoxen
1 vault
1 Monolith


I'd like to throw some FoW's in here, but it's hard to find room.  This deck wants to draw lots of cards, and none of the threats are expendible.  

Hope this helps

-=ADAM=-

[riggy]

I like some of the ideas in your decklist. You actually posted a lot of the ideas that I had since my earlier decklist. The idea of a 1 sided upheavel in the form of Hurkyl's Recall was really cool.

I was also considering Daze for post lock in case they do  have ESG-Oxidize, Basking Rootwalla or an Affinity critter. I can still use the alt casting cost of Daze to stop their spell. I suppose then the same can be said of Gush.

@Carlos El Salvador:
I thought about it, but didn't want to have to add another combo piece. Plus, 20 turns is 20 turns. Frogmites kill in 10, Enforcers in 5. It just seemed more solid.

@Adam:
I don't know if this was an omission or not, but you could probably use an Academy in there. Also, have you found the 7 permanent thing to be a problem for the cc of Enforcer? I was thinking of running 2 frogmites and 2 Enforcers. I suppose if nothing else, you can sit and wait until you drop enough lands to have the permanent count to cast the enforcer. And thanks, that decklist does help a lot.

I'm not sure which direction I want to take this deck though. Keeping Shamans + Drains in there means playing solid control. But adding Welders + Thirsts means playing it more like combo. Does anyone see any solid advantage to either type?

I'm thinking of the following:
-4 Ancient Tombs
-4 Welders/Pups/Rootwallas
-4 Brainstorm
-2 Capsize (Toad's point of UU is valid, and isn't entirely resolved yet)
-1 Null Rod

+3 Islands
+4 Thoughtcast
+2 Frogmites
+2 Myr Enforcers
+1 Frantic Search
+1 Wheel of Fortune
+2 Rushing River (I think that's the one I'm looking for - Chain of Vapors seemed too risky).

And with such a drastic change to the deck, I think a repost of the revised decklist is in order (and apologies to the mods if I should have simply edited the original listing).

Mana: 26
4x Mishra's Workshops
4x Volcanic Islands
4x Polluted Deltas
7x SoloMoxen
6x Islands
1x Tolarian Academy

Lock: 7
3x Null Rods
4x Mycosynth Lattice

Draw/Control: 19
4x Mana Drains
4x Force of Wills
4x Thoughtcast
2x Rushing River
1x TimeWalk
1x Ancestral
1x Tinker
1x Frantic Search
1x Wheel of Fortune

Kill: 8
4x Gorilla Shaman
2x Frogmites
2x Myr Enforcer

Thanks for everyone's help with the deck. I appreciate it.

[BreathWeapon]

Would Damping Matrix be better than Null Rod MD (Unscathed Moxen)? How exactly does the Lattice interact with the mana production of Mishra's Workshop?

[riggy]

I don't think the Matrix would be better, because that nullifies the lock. With lattice, all your lands are artifacts, and then Null rod says you can't use your lands.

And unfortunately, the Workshop still only provides mana for cards that have artifact in their type. The Lattice just makes all spells colorless and all permanents artifacts. I assume that's the question you were asking?

[BreathWeapon]

Ah, my bad, I didn't realize you were trying to establish a hard lock with Null Rod. Matrix would definately be inferior for all intents and purposes. I think i'm gonna sleave this up and try it out, it looks like the only way to abuse affinity in T1.

Edit: Ya, you answered my question regarding Workshop.

[Pago]

You certainly would be hosing a huge portion of your deck. Moxen, all of your land, hell, you would hose everything except for your little 1/1 beatsticks, unless iam MAJORLY missing something, and I probably think Iam. Can someone give me a pointer as to how/why you play such a widespread symmetrical effect, or is there some sort of synergy/card that breaks it?  

[Blackest Lotus]

Can someone give me a pointer as to how/why you play such a widespread symmetrical effect, or is there some sort of synergy/card that breaks it?  

Not really, basically you play Rod and Lattice, and you don`t want them to have any creatures out otherwise you could find your self losing without some defense. Then play a Frogmite or Myr Enforcer and beat down. No playe can play spells due to Rod shutting down all activated artifact abilities, and everything is an artifact. Thats it.

[Pago]

It sounds horribly symmetrical, because the only thing you have to win with once you plonk down the lock are little 1/1 creatures that give you opponent plenty of time to find a wish or a R&R

[riggy]

It sounds horribly symmetrical, because the only thing you have to win with once you plonk down the lock are little 1/1 creatures that give you opponent plenty of time to find a wish or a R&R

How, pray tell, do you cast either the wish or the R&R? Hmm? And the last time I checked the Myr Enforcer was a 4/4 critter to play the beatdown with.

Symmetrical, yes. But one deck is built to abuse the symmetry, and the other deck is probably not (Rootwalla < Enforcer).

[Daniel_112]

Cool deck, but I think you need to improve your mana base and you really need more creature removal.