Debate: Why Dragon?

[Pago]

I first learned about the Dragon combo reading some old mtg.com article. Blah blah blah, enchant a Dragon, loop is infinite, if only they could devote the mana to something, blah blah.. seemed like a feasible idea, but I had enough of tech from mtg.com or scrye or whatever (it all sucks anyways), so I disregarded it.

A few weeks later, I got raped (Playing a Nether Lands, pet deck) by a player piloting none other than... A Dragon deck! Turn 1 Kill with a god hand (buried alive, then animate), and consistently hosed me turn 2-3, unless I plunked down a Void or a bit of discard (latter doesnt work against them if they want to get a Gorger in the yard).

With Long.dec coming into play, they were in competition as combo decks. Now, with Jan 1 restrictions, Long.dec is falling into ruin, and Dragon is now the Benchmark of combo decks.

BUT WHY?

Why is Dragon, being so easily hated, seen as a Benchmark for any new combo deck? (except for Belcher). It is easily hated out by cards like:

a) Blood Moon (partial)
b) Control (although it rolls in face of Swarms)
c) Stifle
d) Tormod's Crypt
e) Targeted GY removal
f) Most types of prison.dec disruption

It also has problems with:
a) Bounce cards
b) Strip effects

The fundamental turn in T1 is still turn 1, my boys. It doesnt matter if you win your first turn, its how you spend your turn. Playing prison.dec and setting down any of the lock parts severly hampens Dragon. Swarm has no use on it, and casting deed makes it vulenerable to another turn to prison. Keeper will wish for solutions/StoP/Stifle, Hulk wishes StoP/Stifle, and other combo decks lay down their own disruption.

In fact, as many tourney reports have suggested, it can be generally concluded that Dragon just its right up there anymore. Sure, its a reliable, consistent, combo deck, but it shouldnt be used as a "comparism" point for any new combo deck. Iam getting tired of "why play this over dragon?" "why is this better than dragon?" "why is this faster than dragon?"

So, concluding:

Why is Dragon still being used as a benchmark for Combo decks when there are innovative, fast, and viable solutions being introduced? You cant compare all combo decks to dragon. Its impossible to compare Dragon to Twister.dec. They function differantly, draw differantly, but still go off around the same turn. Its like comparing apples with oranges

Another reason that I think so many combo decks are turned down is because of an established "core" of T1 players. There are clearly powerful combo decks out here, like Trix, Koboldpotence (not as fast i know, but its there), Bargain, Belcher. Most of the threads I see have "why play this over dragon?" Yet Smemmens (no personal attack here) decklist with Twister.dec has no such comment, and I dont an explanation of "why play this over dragon"

[DEA]

very simple answer to your question
dragon is near brainless
all you have to do is get a bazaar on the table, dragon in the yard, 1 mana source and taddaaa~

the only thing is raping your opponent's hand so you don't get surprised by stifle or other suchlike nonsense
the other nitty gritty stuff is just how to sideboard to take out hosers against dragon

[TheFram]

You explain it yourself. If dragon is merely a decent but viable combo deck, any combo deck worth playing should be better than it some way.

This is a perfect benchmark.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Dragon SHOULD be the benchmark for a fair combo deck. It CAN'T win consistently on turn 1, and often kills on turn 3, assuming 2 land drops, bazaar, and animate. It's used as a benchmark because it does fairly well vs. control. While other combo decks like rector-trix can go off with the same speed and consistency, they simply run out of gas if disrupted. Dragon has an AWESOME draw engine in the form of bazaar (not to say draw 7s are bad), and, unlike all other combos, need to resolve 1, thats right, 1 spell to win the game. Dragon is by no means degenerate, just good....very good. And, IMO, that should be the benchmark for Combo.

[Smash]

Dragon SHOULD be the benchmark for a fair combo deck. It CAN'T win consistently on turn 1, and often kills on turn 3, assuming 2 land drops, bazaar, and animate. It's used as a benchmark because it does fairly well vs. control. While other combo decks like rector-trix can go off with the same speed and consistency, they simply run out of gas if disrupted. Dragon has an AWESOME draw engine in the form of bazaar (not to say draw 7s are bad), and, unlike all other combos, need to resolve 1, thats right, 1 spell to win the game. Dragon is by no means degenerate, just good....very good. And, IMO, that should be the benchmark for Combo.

But trix has 12 protection/disruption elements to dragons 4. Even though trix has to reasolve more, it is usually fairly confident it can do it. Not to mention, you need hate like coffin purge or seal to stop it. Trix avoids much dragon hate (blessing, STP, etc.).

Still, dragon is a really nice combo deck. Faster than aggro, and has the tools to bust up control. It definately has problems with hate, and is good enough to warrent at least some hate in most metas. You can't ignore dragon and do well (in the long term).

[Matt]

Trix also costs 5UU to combo out. Dragon takes 1B. Dragon is also almost a one-card combo.

[Toad]

Dragon is also a standard benchmark for Combo decks because It's probably the easier Combo deck to play, which means you can goldfish it / play it for a few games and then use it for real testings and consider your testings to be good. I've seen a lot of people claiming strong win percentages against Long, simply because they were facing bad opponents. That kind of things occurs less with Dragon because It's easier to play.

It's also a nice deck to jauge your sideboard, because It dies to both creature removal, enchantment removal abd graveyard removal.

If I'm playtesting Prison against Combo, I'll do it against Dragon because Dragon doesn't die to Trinisphere or Chalice of the Void for 0 or 1.

[Pago]

But there are plenty other viable combo decks rising now. The one problem with Dragon that I see is that the decklist is so tight that its hard to fit in disruption (maybe Swarm).

In the game where turn 1 is still everything, it doesnt mean you have to win turn 1. Rather, its a contest (on turn 1) to see how much you can disrupt or shut down your opponet. Many decks carry at least 1 out of many tools that are maindecked that can be used against Dragon.

[DEA]

then we go back to the very first point i brought up
it's easy to play
just take long
people used to take 15minutes to decide if they wanted to mulligan
even belcher takes a little practice
dargon?
no man, one swamp, one ritual, bazaar, dragon in the yard, you're good to go

[Smash]

Trix also costs 5UU to combo out. Dragon takes 1B. Dragon is also almost a one-card combo.

Rector trix cost W3 to combo out with a therapy in yard.

Dragon cost 1B to combo out, with a zar/compulsion in play, a mana source in play, and a dragon in the yard.

Obviously 3W is hard to get, but trix does play more mana acel like mana vault.

[BreathWeapon]

Dragon.dec is more flexible than Twister.dec and Rector.dec. It can side in additional threats in the form of Verdant Force, and it has a wide array of bombs ranging from Pernicious Deed to Xantid Swarms (Swarm and Animate synergy is insane). Dragon can also be played at a mere fraction of the cost of Rector and Twister, it took me 342$ to put together a B/g Spoils-Dragon.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Dragon is straightforward. PERIOD. Even with Rector trix, if a deck deals 10 damage to you before you can get bargain, there is a slim chance of you not drawing the card you need. The same goes for twister.dec and long. Casting multiple draw 7s into a win condition is a lot less consistent than paying 1B to win the game. Plus, rector trix dies to the SAME HATE AS DRAGON. Sure, people play with edicts and such, but stifles, REB, Swords, Crypt, Purge, all hit trix as well.

And whats this crap about dragon not being able to fit in disruption? Last time I checked, it ran 4 swarms and 4 duress. Not to mention it runs 7 animate effects. To the best of my knowlege, thats 11 spells the control deck HAS to counter. Throw in compulsion/bazaar/intuition and you've got a deck that can take control.

[Smash]

Dragon is straightforward. PERIOD. Even with Rector trix, if a deck deals 10 damage to you before you can get bargain, there is a slim chance of you not drawing the card you need. The same goes for twister.dec and long. Casting multiple draw 7s into a win condition is a lot less consistent than paying 1B to win the game. Plus, rector trix dies to the SAME HATE AS DRAGON. Sure, people play with edicts and such, but stifles, REB, Swords, Crypt, Purge, all hit trix as well.

And whats this crap about dragon not being able to fit in disruption? Last time I checked, it ran 4 swarms and 4 duress. Not to mention it runs 7 animate effects. To the best of my knowlege, thats 11 spells the control deck HAS to counter. Throw in compulsion/bazaar/intuition and you've got a deck that can take control.

*sighs to people who do not understand the trix*

STP does nothing against trix.
Trix is more likely to FoW/stop the crypt. It can also just crap out a necro or bargain and combo by hand.

There is not really a question that dragon is the better DECK, it is just the fact that dragon gets a lot more hate, some of which trix can get around (in a heavy dragon-hate meta, trix would also not be fun).

[twn_domn]

1. Benchmark?
Dragon = benchmark for combo?  Uh.., I don't think it's one of those well-known, widely recognized fact.  Yes, that statement is pretty close, but no reason to take it for granted.


2.
Most people already mentioned it:  It CAN'T win consistently on turn 1, and often kills on turn 3.  In that case, If Dragon players get a broken start, you SHOULD do something broken in return.  It's Type One after all, competition has always been like this.  What's the big deal?

[Masticor]

Dragon is actually the most successful Deck on Turnaments.
I thought about playing RectorTrix as well but there ist too much hate like Stifle, Swords, Graveyard removal or Enchantment Removal to play this Deck successful. I would prefer plying a Dragon Deck even if it hast problems with the same Hate Cards it has the better draw engine and you have multible Win options.