[Deck] Clamp of Kher Keep

[jsg7440]

Ouch, testing is showing me some serious flaws in this deck.  I have a complete problem with a deck that dies to several cards, all of which are extremely likely to be in nearly every sideboard, if not maindecked.  Unless we find a new card (diamond in the rough), this deck is going to simply go on the shelf.  This inclusion of green does not even begin to solve many of the woes this deck encounters.

On a better note, I have added Yawgmoth's Bargain, and, again, never looked back.  It is kind of hard to play on a whim, but it is another win now card in the maindeck.  I have NEVER, N-E-V-E-R lost a game in which I resolved this card.  Other cards I have tested and almost certainly will include on a permanent basis are Reaping the Graves, and Cabal Ritual.  Cabal ritual will almost always net you the big 5-banger mana, but in the smaller version, still helps to smooth over your mana issues.  I have started to grow fond of this card... like a lover, we have shared many a good times, and many a rough.

How are other people's playtesting going with this deck?  Is it viable yet?  Does it show potential to be viable?  What problems are you finding?  What solutions are you finding?

Please let me know, since I intend to make this deck work, if it is the last thing I do.

[Pago]

Have you considered City of Solitude, given that you are running Green / ESG's? Granted, resolving a 2G enchantment might be hard, but you run green, it DOES help because you can combo on your turn without getting disrupted. It also shouldnt be too hard to find 2G, because the whole purpose of this deck (it rocks!) is to pull lots of mana and cards

BTW: Love that little ! above my avatar =D

[Astro]

I don't see City of Solitude a contender.  Not when there are so many other cards that just simply do a better job but for less mana:  Duress, Xantid, Unmask, ect...

Jsg, the problems I'm running into are the same problems that you already mentioned.  Rico said it best, Chalice absolutely rapes this deck.  To answer your question about Cabal Ritual.  Yes, they are decent however I'm having better results with Songs of the Damned as rarely do I have the mana (while going off that is) to cast the Cabal Ritual.  Even if it will never be tier 1 it can always be competetive and viable.  Anyway, the deck needs much further testing. Being a combo player I'd love to eventually see a primer.

[everythingitouchdies]

I have actually put some red in my build, running gorilla shamans as clamp fodder but also as a way to handle a chalice for 0, fortunately no one has chaliced for one yet.

As for Trinisphere... this card is doomed to slay this deck. But all you have to do is tap the damn thing.... urgh.

EITD

[jsg7440]

Well, I don't have a lot of time to respond, but here goes...

Regarding Trinisphere- Both Sphere's are a serious problem for this deck.  I don't know what to do besides Oxidize maindecked.

Regarding City of Solitude- Astro stated it perfectly when he said that there are better, easier to cast answers out there.

Regarding Cabal Ritual- I have not dropped the songs of the damned, I am instead running both songs and Cabal Ritual's maindecked.  They help to smooth the mana a lot.  Plus, sometimes the songs are just dead weight, but with the cabal ritual, dark ritual, and SotD in my maindeck, it allows me to do some pretty sick shit when I spot a Yawg's Will, plus it greatly increases the chances of powering the Bargain into play.

Regarding Gorilla Shaman-  Never thought to use this little guy, I will definitely test him out ASAP.  Until I have some testing with him, I don't want to predict whether he is good or bad for this deck.  He may just have a place.

Regarding a Primer-  Once I have "finished" this deck, I will write a primer for this deck.  I promise to include all the necessary stuff with it, and plan to definitely give credit to the creators of this deck.

I found a little trick that I may try to institute with this deck.  A friend of mine has suggested a blue splash for the obvious blue power.  I think this is fine, but I don't think this solves any problems.  However, when looking at his build with underground sea and fetchies, I began to think to myself, what merit would Daze have in this deck.  Knowing that I can't hard cast it, but simply as a quick stop to a first turn trinisphere or other nastiness.  I plan on testing Daze out soon.

[martyr]

So far I really like the ideas you guys have been putting forth. Here's my build so far. This is a budget build, so allowances must be made for my exclusion of power. Just insert Moxes for Land, or whatever.

4x Gorilla Shaman
4x Crookshank Kobolds
4x Crimson Kobolds
4x Kobolds of Kher Kep
3x Mogg Fanatic

4x Skullclamp
3x Duress
4x Carnival of Souls
3x Tendrils of Agony
2x Reaping the Graves
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Spoils of the Vault

2x City of Brass
4x Badlands
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Dark Ritual
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Mana Vault

A Chalice for 0 no longer entirely shuts the deck down, and one for 1 is still very deal-withable, as Shatter comes in out of the board. I've been considering Mogg Salvage as an answer to Chalice from Keeper and URPhid and so on, but it seems kind of risky.

Please keep in mind that this is for an EXTREMELY WelderMUD and aggro meta, with lots of Red. The fanatics are in there because they are spectacular against Goblin Sligh, and have a good way of mucking around with Fish.

I haven't found too much success with Songs of the Damned: it seems too narrow for use in a deck that needs the mana boost to go off as well as to continue going off. I like Carnival better because of this.

The main problem I have with this deck is the obvious first/second turn Chalice of the Void/Trinisphere/Sphere of Resistance and Pyrostatic Pillar. The pillar can be worked around, but it's still very tough, and you have to play VERY conservatively. The only two times I've won when this hit (against Goblin Sligh) were very slow, very long games that involved me tendrilling for around 6, 12, and 18. The early two weren't strategic, so to speak, they just kept me alive to use Carnival and to Spoils. Good deal, eh?

So, lesson is, enchantments suck.

I don't have a specific sideboard, as I usually just throw them together five minutes before the tournament, but here's a sample one.

SB: 4x Shatter
SB: 4x Overload
SB: 1x Mogg Fanatic
SB: 2x Slice and Dice
SB: 4x???

[DrLambda]

I have actually put some red in my build, running gorilla shamans as clamp fodder but also as a way to handle a chalice for 0, fortunately no one has chaliced for one yet.

As for Trinisphere... this card is doomed to slay this deck. But all you have to do is tap the damn thing.... urgh.

EITD

I'm currently running Root Maze in the Sideboard. It slows you down, but it shuts down Sphere for 1 more turn to Naturalize / Oxidize it. Oh, and Deconstruct looks like its ok for Trinisphere removal and you can even combo out of it.

Just for fun: A turn 1 kill with a god hand.

10:49:16 - Revolution is shuffling library...
10:49:18 - Revolution drew 7 cards.
10:49:23 - Revolution plays Bayou.
10:49:24 - Bayou is tapped.
10:49:25 - Revolution plays Dark Ritual.
10:49:26 - Revolution buries Dark Ritual.
10:49:28 - Revolution plays Mox Emerald.
10:49:28 - Mox Emerald is tapped.
10:49:30 - Revolution plays Skullclamp.
10:49:32 - Revolution plays Carnival of Souls.
10:49:34 - Revolution plays Kobolds of Kher Keep.
10:49:35 - Revolution's life is now 19. (-1)
10:49:39 - Revolution buries Kobolds of Kher Keep.
10:49:39 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:40 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:42 - Revolution plays Crookshank Kobolds.
10:49:48 - Revolution's life is now 18. (-1)
10:49:49 - Revolution buries Crookshank Kobolds.
10:49:50 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:50 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:54 - Revolution plays Crookshank Kobolds.
10:49:55 - Revolution's life is now 17. (-1)
10:49:56 - Revolution buries Crookshank Kobolds.
10:49:57 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:57 - Revolution draws a card.
10:49:59 - Revolution plays Crimson Kobolds.
10:50:00 - Revolution's life is now 16. (-1)
10:50:02 - Revolution buries Crimson Kobolds.
10:50:02 - Revolution draws a card.
10:50:02 - Revolution draws a card.
10:50:06 - Revolution moves Dark Ritual from Revolution's hand to Revolution's graveyard.
10:50:08 - Revolution plays Mana Crypt.
10:50:54 - Mana Crypt is tapped.
10:50:55 - Revolution plays Tendrils of Agony.
10:50:58 - Revolution says:'Hooray'

[DrLambda]

//NAME: Clamp of Kher Keep V4
// Creatures (22)
        4 Crimson Kobolds
        4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
        4 Crookshank Kobolds
        2 Initiates of the Ebon Hand
        4 Myr Moonvessel
        4 Elvish Spirit Guide
// Spells (34)
        3 Cabal Ritual
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Chrome Mox
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Restless Dreams <- Bow to secret tech
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        2 Carnival of Souls
        1 Demonic Consultation
        2 Reaping the Graves
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
        3 Tendrils of Agony
        1 Spoils of the Vault
        4 Skullclamp
// Lands (4)
        4 Bayou

[waSP]

When I first put together a list, I used the Myr Retriever and I've found them to be ridiculous.  If a Skullclamp gets countered, it can "retrieve" it.  Has anyone tried Cabal Therapy (it could provide extra disruption)?

I think I'm going to try more search over the Tangleroot in my build.  I feel like Carnival of Souls is a little suboptimal, because you can't really combo after turn 2-3 against aggro.  Has anyone tested that matchup?

[The Hamburgler]

I read all the posts and have no idea why no one said anything about this. Deconstruct, three to cast so it gets around Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere, and still doesn't flux your essential mana productivity. This would seem the most oblivious thing to use when thinking of a three to cast, destroy target artifact card. That is for the black/ green build only. I like the deck and might put it togethor just for silliness's sake. I haven't tested but do you draw into another Skullclamp during the period of you going off? Why not Ornithopter if so? I would only write a primer on this if it actually proved to be succesfull, remember, The Mana Drain is for a type one resource, don't give people a bad one. Show results of a tourney in which you gave a good show. Wow type one realy needs a jumper cable if we had to get creative enough to use the Kobolds in a hopefully popular and good deck.
                                                    - The Hamburgler

[DrLambda]

@The Hamburgler: I mentioned Deconstruct about 3 posts ago. Oh, and Thopter + 2 Skullclamps is too clunky and doesnt have a place in this deck. I use the second Skullclamp i draw for Restless Dreams or similar. This looks like the best solution for me.

[jsg7440]

I just have to chime in quickly again, Restless Dreams is some hot tech man.

Thanks for the heads up on that.

If you guys see any other "red-hot-super-duper-freaky-ass-secret-tech" let me know ASAP.

[Astro]

Yep, I'd even go so far as to say the hell with Reaping the Graves.  Restless Dreams is almost twice as good.  I'd cut the Reaps all togother and run 3 Restless Dreams main.

[CodeMonkey]

Just a thought here. Take out Green. Blue is black's best firend. And most importantly it gives you access to the best creature ever; Psychotog. Take out ESG for Brainstorm. Take out Cabal Rit for Tog's. If the combo can't go off (stifling tendrils for ex.), next turn lay Tog, there should plenty of food for him. Don't flame the n00b! :lol:

[serracollector]

This may be stupid, it may be smart, but if you run Tinderwalls, and red at all, Rack and Ruin simply outdoes Deconstruct.  Hell if u have a clamp on the wall, you get to sac him for 2 mana, R&R something and draw 2 cards.  Also Tinderwall's work consecutively towards your combo, clamp one, sac it, use mana to equip to another, sac, repeat etc.  Now if there was a way to change red mana to green, and you had an Enduring Renewal out.....lol.....jk, but seriously, 4 Tinderwalls, and maybe even a R&R maindeck wouldn't hurt if you see that much Workshops Decks/Chalice in your area.  Just my 2 cents.  Keep it up I like the idea.  The last time I saw a Kobold deck was tempest.  Guy went 2nd, drops 7 Kobolds and a Gaea's Cradle, Next turn topdecks an Ovverun and swings for the kill.  LOL.

[Pago]

I think 3 reaping is too much. Besides, given the amount of drawin you can do once the deck goes off (which is really fast) You are bound to draw into it, and since you have around 20 sackable creatures, you can already go through about 40 cards in your deck. And if tendrils isnt there already, consider seriuosly reevaluating your shuffling skills

[Misemaster]

Hey I am not sure if this would be good in the deck because it is completly untested. If finding a skulllclamp can be a problem could diabolic intent work in here? With so many saccable creatures it could be very good.

[Geet]

I am having a hard time coming up with the necessary mana for this deck.  Is 6 lands enough?  And some of you only run 4.  That seems pretty low.  I mulligan a LOT and I never seem to have a permanent source of black I can use on both turn 1 and turn 2.

Another idea i was thinking of (not to solve the above problem, but just an idea) is Lion's Eye Diamond.  What do you think?

[KoboldLeader]

Im testing this:

Lands: (10)
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Swamp (or gemstone mines)
4 Bayou

Creatures: (23)
3 Initiates of the Ebon Hand
4 ESG
4 Tinder Wall
12 Kobold

Artfacts: (10)
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
4 Skullclamp (of course!)

Spells: (17)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
2 Carnivals Of Souls
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Restless Dreams
2 Songs Of The Damned
4 Dark Ritual
3 Culling The Weak
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Tendrils Of Agony (of course!)

Can u help me?? i want to make it more powerfull (i know i have nothing vs spheres, chalice, etc.. but i wont play vs big decks that use those things.. and if i want to.. i'll add 1 or 2 rack and ruin or some duress)

[zmx]

O_o

In all this post the ONLY draw engine is the skullCamp  (excet for recycle)
Why you do not play the better Drawing Card that is printed in Magic : Yawgmoth's Bargain


Then, I playing a MonoBlack version (ok it is not the good thing I Think)
I playing 3 Carnival Soul and 2 Genesis Chamber.
Genesis Chamber give you more creature to draw AND can be a plan B with a simple BeatDown ...

Memory Jar is also a very good draw card...

So now most "personnal" choice :
I play "Ornithopter" and "Culling the Weak" that allow you the tricks to equip Orni and sacrifice it for BBBB !

In other Situation Culling just give you the mana to Cast tendrill, or can help you to start your turn (song of damned, not)

For Help, i post my list (but is not the optimal decklist i Think)
        8 Swamp
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Chrome Mox
        1 Lion's Eye Diamond
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Memory Jar
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        2 Genesis Chamber
        4 Skullclamp
        4 Ornithopter
        4 Crimson Kobolds
        4 Crookshank Kobolds
        4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
        3 Carnival of Souls
        1 Demonic Consultation
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        4 Culling the Weak
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        2 Tendrils of Agony

[zmx]

Another idea i was thinking of (not to solve the above problem, but just an idea) is Lion's Eye Diamond.  What do you think?

It's just a very very very Good Card in this deck =)
I have already play game where it is just like a BL (playing Skullcamp, Kobold, mox, LED, no card in hand, and sacrifice it for draw with the skullcamp)

And if you play Ywill it is also very powerfull !!!

[urza_insane]

with all the hard color stuff, why not just use Thran Quarry. You should probably have a creature in play or you should be going off. Either way Thran will work fine. I'm gonna start testing this deck, i'll let you know my results.

[urza_insane]

Ok, i have many thoughts about this deck. First off i think it should be bult to be budget. If you have access to power and expensive stuff then there is no reason to be playing this deck, draw 7 is much better. The true strength of this deck lies in the fact it is a FAST combo deck that costs $20 to build. It's a lot like easter tendrils. The second thing is that this deck needs to be built around pure speed, I use no disruption and focus on going off ASAP. If you throw in disruption all it does is clog your skullclamping. I also think this deck is best suited with a transformational sideboard into sui black. This is relatively easy if you use a monoblack build. This will strengthen you control match A LOT!
Just some thoughts in what seems to be the only post not locked.

[IHATENETDECKS]

Kobold decks came up the other night at my store and I was pleased to find this thread. Here are some cards I was toying with. I am relatively new to Magic in general so please don't flame me if Im totally offbase.

Genesis Chamber = Drop a Kobold, Make a Myr
Fast Bond = I seem to always have no mana, but a ton of lands in hand.
Mass Hysteria = Once you have the 20 myrs...swing!!!
Goblin Bonbardment = Swing with 10...sac the 10.
Mob Justice = 1R for a lot of Myrs and Kobolds.

The skullclamps have to keep you going obviously, and multiple chambers make a zero drop kobold a bomb.

Please advise!!!

[bebe]

I notice that no one is testing Veteran Explorer which is a very nice accelerator for the deck. I think it bears a good look.

[Lunk]

My major problem with the Explorer is that if you play it on any turn other than the one which you're going off, it accelerates your opponent quite a bit, and even on your turn it allows the opponent the chance to, for example, grab 2 Islands for a drain.