[Deck] Standstill + Psychatog

[Dr. Sylvan]

In a stroke of "genius" (read: possible wrongness), I have realized that Psychatog is good against aggro, and is black. Also, see Plaguebearer and Smother for reasons why black's main creature worries come from Arrogant Wurm, Su-Chi, and Juggernaut, all of which fall before the preeminent Dr. Teeth (and yes I know sometimes TnT has other big guys; I prefer not to think of them as early enough problems to plan against). The Landstill primer does not raise the possibility of Psychatog, Smother, or Plaguebearer as part of the black options, so I thought this merited posting for consideration. Unfortunately this is a rather undertested initial list, but I wanted to get more input. (Note: Robert the Swordsman started another thread on a UB Landstill, but I feel the difference is wide enough to justidy a separate thread.)

------Mana: 28
9 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
1 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Mox Jet, Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
------Draw/Search: 12
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Standstill
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Cunning Wish
------Control: 20
3 Psychatog
3 Smother
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Stifle
1 Mind Twist
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
------Sideboard: 15
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Duress
2 Teferi's Response
2 Deep Analysis
1 Misdirection
3 Coffin Purge
2 Plaguebearer
1 Smother

Thoughts on why to play this over Hulk: The potential to force them into giving you major card drawing is always the reason to run Standstill, and particularly against other AK decks, making them the one to cast their Intuition dramatically amplifies your own AKs. Since the Tog player must stop Standstill, they will be forced into this position. Also, this manabase is like a rock compared to something like Keeper. Eleven basics is pretty damn good at immunization to B2B/Blood Moon, and with just one fetchland there's very little risk of getting Stifled into a losing mana position.

Thoughts on why to play this over UR or UW: Potentially (and we'll see if my testing agrees), Psychatog might solve the problem of how to answer aggro. Of the two more favored splashes, Nevinyrral's Disk is the favorite aggro answer. If this could be outmoded, I think the deck would greatly benefit. Also, Psychatog provides a far faster kill than even burn- or Decree-accelerated attacks. On top of it all, black might actually make the control matchup even more decisive, and provide benefits against combo thanks to Duress.

Where I think I'm most likely to fail with this deck:
(1) Slow mana due to lack of Mox/Standstill synergy.
(2) Not enough removal to face an aggro deck.
(3) Danger of autoloss to decks with more manlands (possibly solved by Conclaves).
(4) Trouble in River City...er, versus Workshop Prison.
(5) Lacking in Brainstorm power due to low shuffler count.
(6) [Things I haven't thought of yet.]

Thoughts?

[jazzykat]

What are you trying to do? Obviously not combo the opponent out.

Drop a tog then a standstill? If you drop tog then you are in a very good position to win w/o standstill, provided you can go lethal.


Why disk over deed? Deed is your all in one turn ghetto sweeper.
Disk is another mana (all colorless) but is a turn slower. Deed has also put my moxes into the yard for mising the last few points of victory with my tog.

Also, your deck is missing B2B(SB main deck?) which wouldn't hurt your deck at all compared to crippling most decks and making people want to go home.

Two address 2 of your points on why you will fail.

1. Not that good vs. Aggro. True because:
A: you lack the acceleration (moxes) to goldfish into victory quickly
B: have to rely on actually getting your tog through their blockers (Berserk makes you twice as fast and you can go through chumps.)
C: They may have a dork down before you can even set up a standstill

2. Trouble vs. Workshop
A: Yeah, you have a lone disk to kill non-creature artifacts
B: I still play 4 color tog because I like rack and ruin, and artifact mutation, 3 color tog has naturalize and still BERSERK! You have only 1 4cc way to deal with permanents.

I understand that this was just a musing  but unless you tell me how to play this deck to take advantage of its strengths which may make it awesome in the right meta, any tog with berserk just seems about twice + trample as good . Berserk just lets you kill so much faster, and makes it possible to do so, in case you had to block an arrogant wurm early on and your graveyard is depleted. I see the smothers knocking out blockers(provided there are any) to get tog through but you will have to work to make your graveyard big and be even more careful about what you block.

Please don't think I am flaming you I am just rather consternated by the lack of berserk and the replacing of my P diddy with a lowly disk.

Lastly I think that 2 or 3 deep analysis would be funny with standstill as they can be discarded while waiting for the other person to break it. Then you can draw like a maniac.

[Lockdown]

It's actually similar to my Gay Gro concept found here.  As I said when I defended my deck, dropping tog/dryad puts you in a good position, but Standstill really seals the deal.  They're struggling to find a solution, and Standstill gives you a much better chance of stopping whatever they come up with.

[Dr. Sylvan]

What are you trying to do? Obviously not combo the opponent out. Drop a tog then a standstill? If you drop tog then you are in a very good position to win w/o standstill, provided you can go lethal.

Right. I'm definitely in it for the slower kill than normal Hulk. Think of this as a Landstill deck instead of a Hulk deck---slowly killing the opponent under a Standstill or gaining massive CA if they break it. One of the edges here is that Psychatog is almost an alternative win condition, with a primary function as removal. I don't necessarily want to bash for twenty, I want to deal with their early creatures and then Standstill. Psychatog is just one of the ways to deal with aggro, while Standstill gives control players nightmares.

Why disk over deed? Deed is your all in one turn ghetto sweeper.
Disk is another mana (all colorless) but is a turn slower. Deed has also put my moxes into the yard for mising the last few points of victory with my tog.

My main worry with adding a third color is that I really don't want to lose mana advantage to opposing Wastelands, Stifles, and Shamen. One of the edges here is that the deck is immune to nearly all mana denial, with two Stifles for backup. Deed accomplishes a very similar role to Disk, and usually either one requires waiting a turn if used early on.

A: Yeah, you have a lone disk to kill non-creature artifacts
B: I still play 4 color tog because I like rack and ruin, and artifact mutation, 3 color tog has naturalize and still BERSERK! You have only 1 4cc way to deal with permanents.

Your point about the early dork is the reason for the black cards I'm using: deal with the first problem, then Standstill my way into way more cards than them. I'm definitely thinking Recoil would be a perfect sideboard card, as a way to undo a lock long enough to Drain into something spicy.

Lastly I think that 2 or 3 deep analysis would be funny with standstill as they can be discarded while waiting for the other person to break it. Then you can draw like a maniac.

Sideboarded already. If you have a suggestion on what to replace in the board for Back to Basics, I'd be open to it. The problem with maindecking them is that I need my manlands to keep working as threats if I resolve a Standstill, so it would only be worth it in matches where the opponent would have significant problems under it.

One of the weaknesses that I've also found is that any deck with Decree of Justice is rather awesome against this, which isn't a good sign. Anyone who has recommendations about that would be supercool.

@Lockdown: You go GAT/Fish, I go Hulk/Landstill...I think we think the same way. :)

[Lockdown]

One of the weaknesses that I've also found is that any deck with Decree of Justice is rather awesome against this, which isn't a good sign. Anyone who has recommendations about that would be supercool.

Yes, that's true, and you also have problems with super-fast aggro, i.e. Food Chain Goblins.  While you have Plaguebearers/Smother to help you out a bit in the SB, a MD consideration is Powder Keg.  It sweeps tokens out of the way with punitive ease, among other things, and it's not that difficult to get it to 1 or 2 for other situations.

[kirdape3]

Why must the Tog player stop the Standstill?  They can wait on it (since you have no pressure on them) and then break it during your EOT when you have 7 cards already, forcing you to discard 3 of them.  Then they go nuts.

I just don't actually see this deck doing much against Tog if the other player has half of a brain.  Sure, the ability to board Back to Basics is nice, but certain Tog builds have that themselves and it's STILL not a game-ending threat against them.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I figure that the Standstill draws, even if I lose the pure card numbers to EoT, will let me win the counter war next turn before playing another Standstill or threat+Standstill. Also, in their attempt to "go nuts", they might give the AK advantage to me by playing theirs first. I definitely don't have enough Hulk practice to speak with confidence, but that's my reasoning: their engine can only spring forth by casting AK, whereas mine doesn't need it, so I can wait longer.

I definitely wouldn't bring in BtB unless it was one of the four-color Hulks.

Edit: I'm also now very much adding some Conclaves over some Islands. Landstill's lands need to be beaters to amplify the advantage of the Standstill. Look at the main differences between UR and UB:

-Lightning Bolt -Fire/Ice +Psychatog +Smother +Mind Twist +DT
-3 Disks -1 Stifle +AK
-Misdirection +Cunning Wish +Yawgmoth's Will
-REB +Duress

The matchup that weakens most is Workshop Prison, and if that's a real problem in a given metagame, I'd find room for more Disks. I think that my aggro answers are as good as the original, simply through the pure power of Tog, so I'm not sure why this deck seems less effective.

[jazzykat]

I am at work so I will make this short.

@Dr: I understand now and appreciate your answers. I am not 100% sure but I think you can still kill most aggro by comboing out with one of the faster togs. What type of aggro are you worried about in particular, as a whole bunch of weenies (con RANCOR) have been giving me trouble lately.

NOTE: I love the idea that Mr. Teeth is being used as creature removal, (IMO there is none better because he can kill as well).

To fight against decrees you can use deeds, kegs before stand still otherwise you can try to stifle under one (BLECH!).

[Dr. Sylvan]

@Dr: I understand now and appreciate your answers. I am not 100% sure but I think you can still kill most aggro by comboing out with one of the faster togs. What type of aggro are you worried about in particular, as a whole bunch of weenies (con RANCOR) have been giving me trouble lately.

As mentioned above, FCG is really fast, and the best hope for beating them is counterspells. Smother helps that and other "horde" matchups. I'd say TnT is a pretty bad time for this deck, but not horrendous. Mostly, this deck is weaker against aggro than Hulk because my draw engine is less aggressive, so I can't pump as furiously. The gains are to be had in control matchups, as per normal with Landstill. I'm just seeing if this would make sense for that purpose.