Recourse on Ebay....Success?

[jazzykat]

Greetings members of the community. I just lost my job today, furthermore I got ripped off on Ebay (from a member with almost 100 positive refs and 98-99% positive feedback). OK I am going to shoot myself in the face now.

Anyway, I was wondering how the paypal protection service works. Has anyone had any experience using it, and if so do you have any tips?

Thanks

[Razvan]

Ugh... sorry 'bout that. I hope you get another job soon.

Call Paypal. They are really good for protection. Especially if you are the buyer (seller protection, I have heard one complaint about).

Who was the user that ripped you off? And for what?

[jazzykat]

I am not going to post the name until the seller responds because they may take the item back, but it is not in the condition stated and the authenticity of the card is in question after taking it to a local reputable dealer. I will probably have to file with paypal tomorrow.

[jpmeyer]

If the person seems reputable, check their feedback before you get worked up.  I've occasionally had problems with stuff that I've boughten from reputable sellers before, but since they're reputable they've let me return whatever it was.

[Razvan]

I've occasionally had problems with stuff that I've boughten from reputable sellers before, but since they're reputable they've let me return whatever it was.

Boughten?

am not going to post the name until the seller responds because they may take the item back, but it is not in the condition stated and the authenticity of the card is in question after taking it to a local reputable dealer. I will probably have to file with paypal tomorrow.

One thing happened to a friend of mine. He sold (on ebay) a beta Royal Assassin, for about $70us or so. The guy said he received it (in an email). A week later, Paypal deducted the money from my friend's account, since the buyer complained he never received the card.

My friend called paypal, but they just shrugged, saying that people can do that...  

I am not 100% sure the story is authentic, but just in case people need to know...

[Diddler]

Anyway, I was wondering how the paypal protection service works. Has anyone had any experience using it, and if so do you have any tips?

Thanks

Sorry to hear your news...

Anyhow, I filed to PayPal for a refund.  I can't remember which links you need to follow, but it's fairly straightforward once you're on the web site.  You need to fill out a little form with the transaction numbers and a description of why you want your money back.  Keep in mind that all of this must be done within 30 days of the money transfer...

Hope you get your money back

[Jhaggs]

Greetings members of the community. I just lost my job today, furthermore I got ripped off on Ebay (from a member with almost 100 positive refs and 98-99% positive feedback). OK I am going to shoot myself in the face now.

Anyway, I was wondering how the paypal protection service works. Has anyone had any experience using it, and if so do you have any tips?

Thanks

I do alot of trades on ebay and someone with 100 positive responses seems pretty solid.  Give it some more time, send that person some e-mails and document everything.  I remember one trade where the buyer had left for vacation.  Eventually everything worked out.  Hopefully this is something simillar.  

Sorry to hear about the job....good luck with the new hunt.

[jazzykat]

Thanks everyone for the tips. The card is definitely counterfeit, it is just a matter of wether the person will refund my money, or I will have try to go through paypal to get it back.

[Jacob Orlove]

Thanks everyone for the tips. The card is definitely counterfeit, it is just a matter of wether the person will refund my money, or I will have try to go through paypal to get it back.

Use paypal. If the card is a fake, don't send it back. He'll just sell it to someone else.

[Diddler]

I do alot of trades on ebay and someone with 100 positive responses seems pretty solid.  Give it some more time, send that person some e-mails and document everything.  I remember one trade where the buyer had left for vacation.  Eventually everything worked out.  Hopefully this is something simillar.  

Sorry to hear about the job....good luck with the new hunt.

In all honesty, everyone has a chance to be dishonest.  I have been ripped off twice on eBay by "reputable" sellers.  One of them had ~130 positives (no negatives) when I paid for the cards (4 Spiritmongers, in their hay-day), and had about 10 negatives a month later.  The other seller had over 200 positives (no negatives) and sold me a Mox Jet for $92... I never saw the card.  Later, that seller got several negatives and then became unregistered.

I think, in general, it's safe to buy from someone who has more than 100 positive feedbacks (and no negatives or neutrals)  who has sold plenty of cards before, but don't be surprised when you get nothing.  They may just be "going out in style".

Generally, don't get tempted to buy a low priced card from someone who is new to eBay... There's a reason it's priced so low: they're a high risk seller.  Buy from people who have over 99.8% positive feedback, and have sold at least several hundred cards, for example: mr.means, femeref enchantress, wasi100, brapsmagic, and emax95 (I don't know these people personally, but I want to give a flavour for who should be considered reputable).

I'd also have to agree with Jacob Orlove about sending back the fake...  If you do, someone else will only be put in the same situation as you.

[Attmore]

Do you have an address?  Since you don't have a job right now you must have a lot of free time, maybe it's time for a road trip??  Okay, I'm not being very sensitive, I'm sorry man, but people that sell fake cards need to be bludgeoned to near death, or at least to the point that they won't be able to identify you  :lol: .    Hope it all works out though!

[jazzykat]

Still playing it cool waiting for their email response. But I live in NY and the seller is in LA. I don't think a road trip is in order. I don't know how I am going to not be able to send back the card if I even get a refund unless I go through paypal and even then I think they have a right to have the merchandise back.

[Jacob Orlove]

Still playing it cool waiting for their email response. But I live in NY and the seller is in LA. I don't think a road trip is in order. I don't know how I am going to not be able to send back the card if I even get a refund unless I go through paypal and even then I think they have a right to have the merchandise back.

Get a refund and send the card to Wizards. They're the ones who are having their merchandise forged.

[johnstown713]

Sorry about the rip off.  I must say that it happened to me and paypal didn't do anything about it.  Later I contacted the credit card company and they gave me the refund.  Paypal got pissed that I went through the credit card company but in the end I got the money back.  Hope this helps and you get a refund.

[COUNTERSPELL]

I don't have paypal and I used money order to buy an UNLIMITED MINT BLACK LOTUS from ebay for $530. I never recieved it and I hope it made you feel better.

[Pern]

I'm out $700 on a bunch of cards that never came,
Four Drains, Library, Walk, Beta Ruby.
Kinda soured my whole playing thing.

[DavidHernandez]

PayPal is not your only recourse, although it is your best option.  You also have 30-days from the date the auction ends to apply to eBay for their Insurance Protection.

I did this when I didn't receive a "Beta Time Walk" that I paid for with a Money Order.  It took 17 months, but I got my money back (minus the $25 ebay deductible).  Ebay is THE most frustrating company to work with when it comes to anything important.  They only offer email service (you will never speak with a person, and there is no phone number), their service links are buried in their web site, and their emails are annoying...

"...We are so sorry...we apologize for any inconvenience...we sincerely hope that your ebay experience has been lovely..."

get some ballz.  I hate their service department.  But, I got my money back.

PayPal is far easier, especially if you paid for the protection.  I think the only way the protection even comes up as an option is if the Seller offered it.  That means you are dealing with someone who doesn't intend to rip you off.  BUT, there may be a time limit on when you have to put in a claim.

The other thing you can probably do is have your bank simply reverse the charge.  This is especially true if your PayPal account links to a Credit Card.  If it's a checking account, you may still be able to do it without a hassle (my credit union treats my account the same as my credit card, because i have a "Visa Debit Card" assosiated with my checking account).

Good luck.
--Dave.

[jazzykat]

Hello everyone, I really appreciate the guidance in this matter as I am new to being ripped off
In case anyone cares I am sending a scan to the guy of the card, and also gave him the name and number of the appraising card shop. Hopefully then he will agree to refund my money. Paypal is moving a head with some sort of investigation but you can’t contact them directly (WTF!) If I ever see my money I will try to get another piece of power (provided appraisal fees, paypal fees, and shipping fees do not decrease the initial amount invested too much). Can you guys give me recommendations of trusted card shops or even mana drainers . Thanks.

[johnstown713]

A good piece of advice for all is to remember that ebay is horrible and is not face to face buying.  I tried to buy power on it and got ripped off.  It is not worth the hassel.  Go to tournaments or buy from other players seeing as how it is very easy to get power CHEAPER than ebay prices.  Online is never going to be totally reliable so try to get power face to face.  Then you can make sure it isn't fake and really check conditions.

E-Bayers Beware  

[DavidHernandez]

@johnstown713:
I totally DISagree with you.  

eBay is one of the best forums for purchasing.  You just have to make sure that you are careful about the people you buy from.  Typically, you should only buy something expensive from someone who has been around a long time, and has at least a 99% positive rating with over 200 respondents.

out of literally hundreds of eBay transactions, i have only been duped once, and that was because i bought from someone with a (0) feedback rating.

I learned my lesson, and never did that again.  It's been several years now, and all of my experiences have been positive.  I've purchased multiple Moxes and a Lotus, along with other very high priced (non-magic) items.

I think jazzykat will end up with his money back, because he purchased from a reputable person.

Dave.

[johnstown713]

Sorry, I guess I have just seen a lot of people get burned.  There are so many fakes and scams.  My opinion is a little one sided.  Good luck but be causious.

[DavidHernandez]

good luck but be cautious

That's probably the best advice anyone can give when purchasing on ebay.

Remember, I got burned too.  Even so, eBay came through with an insurance refund (-25 dollar deductible).

-Dave.

[Jacob Orlove]

I've found that 99% of the fakes/scams are ridiculously easy to spot (eg MINT BETA ce ANCESTRAL RECALL). I've had all but one positive experience with ebay, including buying power. I definitely bought from some slightly risky sellers, but generally after a few emails you can figure out who's legit and who's not. And getting your money back is possible (although not as easy as it could be).

I'd have to agree with DavidHernandez on ebay being a good place overall.

[Razvan]

Generally, I think that there's still a formula risk/money. The really high-profile sellers, aka 1000+ refs, their cards are obviously real, however it might cost more than possible.

I think that 100+ ref sellers are okay for most things, especially if they have a picture of the card. They are still affordable.

And as Jacob suggested, talk to them. Or, ask for more pictures from different angles. That way, they cannot fake it (unless they are really good), and you know they at least have the card.

[xrizzo]

Still playing it cool waiting for their email response. But I live in NY and the seller is in LA. I don't think a road trip is in order. I don't know how I am going to not be able to send back the card if I even get a refund unless I go through paypal and even then I think they have a right to have the merchandise back.

I am in LA, PM me his contact info and I will see if I (or someone I know can contact him).

Ebay is getting harder and harder to deal with.  If you have a good feedback (like brap's magic) then you get such a nice premium on your cards - somewhere around 25% more value I figure.  All that simply because there are SO many frauds out there.  

Because you are both in the US, I would visit the US mail fraud website -and possibly look into other government based forums for protecting yourself.  You don't necessarily have to do anything with this information, but explaining it to the seller might motivate them to act.

Hope this helps.

[Smash]

Ebay is fine. Pay with credit card. you are 100% protected, and get a better deal than a face to face dealer.

I have bought and sold 50+ power cards on ebay with NO problems.

[glenchuy]

been ripped a few times though.  but now i only buy to a seller with very high refs.

also READ THE COMMENTS! some sellers get tons of refs because they ask their friends to post there by selling them repacks.  if the guy has 100 refs and about a third are from the same person and the rest from another person, chances are, he's a ripper.

i learned it the hard way.  anyhow, i'm now very cautious when buying cards at ebay (only 3 bazaars left and i'm done with everything i need) and i only bid on something that other people bid on... even after i check their references.  

(kinda defeats the purpose of using ebay- since you want to buy the cheapest) but i've never been ripped off ever since.  i've bought a lot of smaller stuff but the big stuffs i bought were (a collection of lots cards $700+, 2 illusionary mask, $80+ each, 1 ruby $170+) other small puchases.  

i don't get protection here (asia) so i borrow my relative's account (who lives in calif) the rip offs i have experienced were of little monetary value (regrowth for $1, orim's chant for $2...) which is why i didn't pursue a refund.

the best advice is to be very careful about it (like what everybody else has said),  don't let one bad accident deter you from using it again.  although if you do get ripped off again, go to his house and beat his bloody face to a pulp.  

[jazzykat]

Thanks everyone for your assistance. After I sent the scans he said he will send me my money back. I will have to wait for the money order, and then I can ship the card back. So let us cross our fingers.

RE: a risk premium.

Razvan hit the nail on the head. The reason these cards are so much less than dealers is all the risks that you incur when you engage in a private transaction.

I don't think the guy even knew the card was bogus though, I hope he can get his money back. I will lose about $15 in this deal but I think the guy was actually honest (let's see if I get my money :B)

[ProdigyMGS]

I just recently bought a card from ebay.  The seller had a zero feedback rating because he had just joined up a week ago.  He was selling about eight other things too.  In the description, he said that tracking number can be requested.  I  asked for one.  He sent an email saying the "item will be shipped tomorrow".  That was on wednesday.  Today is sunday and i have emailed him 3 times and he has not yet responded.  What should I do?

[jazzykat]

@Prodigy: Firstly if you paid via paypal with a credit card you have some recourse if things go wrong. Secondly I would give it another day or two (I know it is hard to do) and write some emails and if they gave a phone number call them.

If your card did go in the mail (provided you both live in the same country) then it should show up within a week. If you do not receive the card or a response then you can file a claim with paypal, ebay, or just reverse the charges with your credit card. I am not sure what you can do if you don't pay with a credit card. Money order's sort of protect you under some laws (Mail fraud?) but I don't know how they work.