Choosing the right card protectors...how?

[Machinus]

I like the look and ease of shuffling of your average black ultra pro card sleeves. But I am not comfortable putting, say, mana drains in them next to some brainstorms and shuffling them the same way. What kind of sleeves do you find to offer maximium protection while still allowing for optimal shuffling and gameplay? I rememeber reading about a dragon deck at Gencon where someone used something like toploaders...I imagine that would be very awkward to play with. Eric at NG uses some stiffer deck protectors of a brand I don't remember, but they still seem too soft for me. Has anyone found a solution they are satisfied with?
 
- Machinus

[Purple Hat]

I got over it actually.  another solution is not to bend the cards when you shuffle them.  with most sleves the edges are "sharp" enough for lack of a better word to cut them into eachother rather then ruffle shuffleing them.

there were a coupple people at gencon with toploaders.  their decks were like a foot tall, it was impressive.  they shuffled them in parts.  I asked one of them if it was hard to shuffle and he said it just took lots of practice.  so that's another option for you.  remember to put opaque backed sleves in your top loaders with the cards so the cards don't slide around or appear marked from wear.

[BrokenNut]

Never EVER use toploaders please. The cards do not need that much protection for every day play. The only thing toploaders are good for is shipping cards because the card is no longer yours so you don't want the person to get a bent card.

As for real sleeves to play in. Ultra Pro are generally considered the worst of the bunch. Very cheap construction. Most people use the japaense sleeves. I personally used to use those, but I have since switched to Dragon Shields because they are much tougher sleeves. They aren't as tall, but they have more strength, which I prefer.

[jazzykat]

NO, I actually use thin ultra pros with my lotus and moxes and shuffle very gently (They are very strong though and I have never had one rip).

I have small hands, and me pawing real thick sleeves like toploaders is an impossibility. I care about the collectability of my cards, but I want to win, so that is my compromise!

[mrieff]

Japanese Gunmetal Black are the most popular in Holland. And with good reason, I might add.

They protect cards very well, and are easy to shuffle with. Being black also means that they get marked slower.

[Gaea]

Actually i'm using gold dragonshield and i think they are good to shuffle and to protect cards.

[Petko]

I play in toploaders.

They're really not that hard to shuffle once you've gotten used to them. I really don't want to take any chances riffle shuffling a deck filled with with Beta Power and pimping Foils.

I like those Japanese sleeves too.

Dragon Shields are pretty tough, but I didn't really like them too much as I HATE short sleeves.

[MarkPharaoh]

Dragon Fusica is becoming very popular here as they are tough and wear very slowly (my Players Choice were more worn then people using Dragon Shield Fusica's and I was using a playmat while our tables are pretty dirty).

[HuntedWumpus]

Dragonshield, Japanese, or Darkside all work just fine. Do yourself a favor and get a playmat. It alone will keep your crap alot cleaner and wont scratch anything up. Dragonshields, are really the topnotch sleeves i would suggest those. Japanese and Darkside also work really well.

[dicemanx]

Japanese Gunmetal Black are the most popular in Holland. And with good reason, I might add.

If these are the sleeves that I'm thinking of, then the Gunmetal sleeves are hands down the best ones ever made (they are the long sleeves with slight silver speckling on the back, correct?). As I understand it, they are no longer available in Canada. Are they still selling them  in Europe Mrieff? I'd love to get my hands on some more.

[Petko]

Yeah. Gunmetals are hardcore.

[jazzykat]

Errr.... I feel like an idiot asking this but could someone post a link so I can see which ones exactly are supposed to be super good?

[D0rk]

I don't see why everyone hates Ultrapro so much. I've used their black ones for a while now and i've never had any split on me, and they last a long time before some get so dirty/worn that they become marked.

Side question; What do you guys use for card boxes, if you even use one. Also, does anyone know a good place to get a play mat from? I've looked around but i'm not finding anything.

[dicemanx]

OMG, found them:

http://www.trollandtoad.com/Supplies/1018-483p3n10.html

And they're cheap, too, with over 400(!) in stock. It's hard to tell by the picture, but they are 66mm x 93mm, which means that they are indeed the right ones. Most other sleeves are shorter - around 90mm in length.

These Japanese Gunmetal Sleeves are the best sleeves ever made!

[Shaman]

I use pink ultra pro since I am playing gay/r.

I am rather satisfied by these sleeves, and I find them to be long enough to protect my power. I noticed that ultra pro were "shorter" than Dragonshield, but these sleeves I bought are as long as my previous Dragonshield so they are ok. I suggest a playmat and to shuffle gently...I have friends that shuffle violently and then complain about their sleeves...that's not my case  

[Fëanor]

Yes, Gunmetal is by far the most superior and should be used above even toploaders.
uh...I found the official website but it's in Japanese...cause google doesnt translate...grr, so I found my way to this page with the use of images and educated guesses.
Yanoman.jp

If you can't find gunmetal, I suggest either the Dragon Shield or the Ultra Pro Black.

Dragon Shield backing wears out after a while, but the card itself rarely splits. Plus Dragon Shield has awsome colors. I use DS Purple for my Ankh Sligh, and DS Green for my Elfball.

Ultra Pro tends to split a little at the top corners (which is why people prefer Yanoman for its large overcut), but they are very sturdy and they last much longer than most other cards. I use Ultra Pro the most, mainly because after testing all the others, those are the ones that lasted the longest. I've had 4x 100 set since around 1998 give or take probably ten because of split corners. I use Ultra Pro for every black deck I ever made, plus Keeper, since my MD and other juicy stuff are in there....but I'd rather have Yanoman

Peace

[Smash]

Use japanese sleeves, the best construction, and most consistent. I have 15 packs of them, and they are all identical.

Do not use dragonshield, they are very very inconsistently made.

I got a match loss at gencon because of it.  Within in the same brand new box, the sleeves varied by as much as 1 MM in length. This is NOT acceptable. In other boxes I have seen huge variations in indentations and coloring.

[D0rk]

On the Gunmetal sleeve package, it says "1 Color Board" and there's this yellow-ish piece of paper on the lower half of the front sleeve. Can someone explain what that is, and if it is of any importance?

[dicemanx]

@D0rk

That's a card divider for use in longboxes. It's actually "tradeable", if you would believe.

[Machinus]

I think I will head for the Japan sleeves. Ultrapro are soft and the corners do break. I have really large hands, and I tend to shuffle my cards forcefully, not riffle shuffling but italian, pile, and mostly cut-and-mesh, or whatever you call that. I would mostly like to avoid bending of cards, dirt getting into the sleeve, which then damages the card face more when the cards are shuffled with dust particles inside the sleeve, etc. I appreciate the information, thanks to everyone for the help.

[Mixing Mike]

Ultra Pro is bad because of the miscuts, and they're really low to the tops of your cards.  Playing with them a lot will make their valuse go down because the tops are usually right on the very edge ofthe plastic.  I use Japs.  They're longer and all cut very well.  I've got a good 2mm aboce each of the tops of my cards, safe and sound....

[terevaune]

The worst sleeves on the market are ultra pro metallic.  I recently had a fun deck of about 300 cards, all sleeved in ultra pro metallic gold sleeves.  Of seven packages I bought every one of them had at least 2 sleeves split right out of the pack (one had a whopping 18).  After playing for about a month I got sick of sleeves splitting so I transferred my cards to black dragon shields.  When I desleeved the deck, I had only 71 usable slleves of the about 300 I removed.  The rest either were already split or split when I desleeved the cards.

I personally use dragon shields of various colors.  I found black and green dragon shields to be the best so far

[mouth]

I really like Rook sleeves...

They're all shiny, even moreso than the UltraPro Metallix series, and they don't wear nearly as much. Plus, they shuffle quite nicely and they come in these sexy metal boxes.

[Kowal]

UltraPro has this new make of sleeves that are actually *good*

These began with the type "raven black" which was suggested on the old TMD right before it went down, in a thread by Mith about how to sleeve his super pimp Keeper.

Now though they have several different flavors, my personal favorite being their dark blue, though I can't remember the cute name for them.  You can tell them apart from regular ultrapro because they're ever so slightly textured.

The corners don't cut in to eachother no matter how you shuffle, and the sleeves are just long enough to prevent dirt and crap from getting on the cards with repeated use.  Likewise, the texturing ensures you don't get that HORRIBLE sticking together from the KMC sleeves.

[MarkPharaoh]

@ D0rk, they are also used to seperate your MD from your SB.

@Kowal, I think you mean Tsunami Blue.

[trotch]

I am using Tsunami Blue on my Sui Black right now, they are working out great for me, but I really don't have much experience with non-American sleeves.  These are the best I've used so far.

[D0rk]

Reading Ultra Pro's website, they offer both Satin and Solid sleeves. Unfortunatly, they don't go into detail at all about the difference. The pictures don't help either to determine which type is the textured variety and which isn't.

[Kowal]

Satin is bad.  Really bad.  They look totally sweet until you shuffle them, when immediately the metallic finish scratches off.

The solids are the ones you desire.

[Moxlotus]

I love the Japanese ones, but my friends love the DragonShield ones.  But I think it is almost a general consensus that UltraPros aren't the best to use.

[Fëanor]

Jeebus Craps, I almost forgot about the Nooveau Ultra Pro. Kowal, I use them on my kickass Spencer.dec and they are the most unbelievably sexiest sleeves I've ever come into contact with........mmm......inanimat e object love.....


The general consensus we'e ome to is that everything has the potential to suck except Yanoman Gunmetal (and so far I've had no problem whatsoever with the Tsunami Bleu ). If anyone finds a place or way to get the gunmetal, could they post it here for everyone including me, whoose location serves for diffucult finding of anything worth more than three cents, including prostitutes........not that I know....