Some concerns about Stax

[Wollblad]

This is a discussion regarding basically two things in Stax or T4k$s (Im not sure I know the difference between them):
1) The card drawing
2) The sideboard
3) The mana base (emerging from point 1 and 2)

First just a sum up about the basic inclusions:
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Karn
1 Triskelion
1 Ancestral
1 Tinker
4 Welder
1 Memory Jar
As you can see, this is somewhat few cards. Using 29 mana sources, 6 cards are missing. Some of them should be dedicated to more card drawing and some are for personal choice. Many players prefer more Chalices, perhaps another Triskelion and so on. I would also like to point out that 4 Trinisphere and 2 Sphere of Resistance is my choice but three of each seems to work fine too.

Card Drawing
Ignoring the mana base for a moment, let's have a closer look at what card drawing that is available.
- Draw sevens. Wheel, TT and Windfall. Draws ridiculously amount of cards and makes the deck less sensitive to mulligan. TT also has a recursion ability which lets you bring back things like Tinker and Welder which can be crucial in some situations. Drawbacks are that they are kind of random and with all mana in your deck it is not uncommon to draw like 5 or 6 mana cards and some random not so useful stuff. You also needs colored mana to play them and if your opponent has wasted some of your Volcanics, you might sit there with cards you cannot play.
- Meditate. Has wonderful synergy with Smokestack and Tangle Wire, but if you don't have an advantage or a lock hard enough, the extra turn you give your opponent might loose you the game.

- Thirst for Knowledge. Perhaps most of a replacement for Meditate. Does not draw as many cards as Meditate, but might get you artifacts into your graveyard and can be played in a more aggressive way since you don't have to skip a turn.

- Mind's Eye. My suggestion for replacing draw sevens if you don't like them. It can be Tinkered for, specially good in situations where you have Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance in play and is somewhat short of mana. In such situations you don't want to tinker for Memory Jar. It also lessens the need for colored mana and is not affected by Null Rod or Damping Matrix.

My choice for the moment is 3 Thirst and one Mind's Eye. Draw sevens just felt too random and they often sat dead in my hand since I lacked the right mana to play them. The only time they were really good, except in my starting hand and with a lot of mana acc, was when I was already winning. Then they could speed up the kill. TT was also good against Dragon. From the same reason, I excluded Meditate since I had to have at least a partial lock to play it. I choose Mind's Eye mostly because it did not demand colored mana and it is a permanent.

Questions: I would be glad to hear about your experiences and thoughts on this subject and in which ways they coincidence with mine and how and why they differ. Are there any viable alternatives I have forgotten?

The Sideboard
There are most of all four matchups that worries me most. Madness, TnT, Dragon and Mud/Stax(mirror). Madness and TnT both have plenty of ways to kill my Welders, they have Artifact Mutation and plenty of permanents. Dragon might just untap and play Necromancy for the win (kind of annoying). The mirror match is much about the sideboard and worst of all is perhaps Viashino Heretic. Now here is my choice of sideboard for the moment.
3 Blood Moon - solves at least the Dragon problem and is awesome against combo and control. Also tends to stop madness.
3 Tormod's Crypt - also against Dragon, might also be brought in against Rector and Tog. Can be useful against TnT as well.
1 Chalice of the Void - I have not full complement in main. Neede against some combo decks.
3 Fire/Ice - deals with Welders, Gorilla Shaman and 1/1 tokens from Artifact Mutation.
3 Viashino Heretic - shines in the mirror match and against Iso Keeper.
2 Hurkyl's Recall - mirror match.

No Triskelion since I have two of them in main, but if you don't I would recommend one more in sideboard. Now looking at this, Dragon seems to be taken care of, but the rest isn't. I have only Fire/Ice against Madness and TnT and there creatures tends to have higher toughness than two and against Stax and Mud, it cannot deal with the Heretic. Also, only 4 artifacts, the rest calls for colored mana. Against Stax and Mud, I usually brings in 3 Fire/Ice, 3 Heretic and 2 Recall and out goes artifacts like Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance. I feel that the mana base is not capable of handling so many colored cards. Here are some suggestions for alternatives.

- Pyrite Spellbomb. Is a permanent, can be cast with Workshop and retrieved by Welder, but is not an instant and still it only deals 2 damage.

- Lightning Bolt or Incinerate. Is an instant but deals 3 damage (deals with Heretics and Juggernauts) but the damage cannot be splitted and the card cannot be cycled away.

- Serrated Arrows. Is an artifact and thereby a permanent. Slow but makes the creatures smaller permanently. Still it cannot handle an active Heretic and is not an instant.

- Duplicant. Handles more or less all creature, but is expensive and I'm quite sure you do not want more than one copy of it in your deck.

Of these cards, Spellbomb is the one I have tested most, but I cannot say I liked it very much. It just felt strictly inferior to Fire/Ice. I have also seen people playing Blue and Red Elemental Blast. Sure the blue one deals with all read stuff, but is it good enough? I cannot imagine myself sidebaording against either TnT, Madness or Stax.

Questions: Assuming highly powered meta game, what is your sideboard choice and how do you handle the above mentioned matchups?

The Mana Base
Nowadays, Wastelands are virtually everywhere, and that is why I do not include black. I even find it hard to support two colors. I use the following 29 mana sources:
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Ancient Tomb
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
Most of the choices are obvious, but there are some cards that might be altered:
- Ancient Tomb, something of like a fifth Workshop, but I have been stabbed several time by it's inability to produce red or blue mana.
- Grim Monolith, enables some neat tricks with Welders, but isn't much of an acceleration.
- Wasteland, sure they are a needed, but can you cut one or two?
To enable more colored mana, Lotus Petal and Shivan Reef are what first comes to my mind, but a fourth fech is also a possibility.

Questions: Do the deck need more colored mana? If yes, what should be cut and what should be included instead?

Thank you for reading and please make comments.

[Smmenen]

You absolutely MUST use four Trinisphere.  Trinisphere is one of the most powerful cards in the format PERIOD.  PERIOD.

Don't count out Meditate as a card drawer either.

Steve Menendian

[Razvan]

Alright, Stax improvements.

I have used 3 Mind's Eyes and Memory Jar and the 3 Draw-7's you mentionned (Wheel, Twister, Windfall). This is a lot of card draw, except the Eyes and the Jar cost 5 mana, which is hard outside of a Workshop.

I am thinking about putting in 3 Thirst for Knowledge instead of the Mind's Eyes. (the latter being a MUD card, the former being a Stax card).

Now, and this will become a sticky situation.

You need more colored mana for Stax.

4 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

This is PRECISELY what I was running. Not enough. Sadly, not enough.

In fact, comparing to your mana base, Wollblad, my only difference was Petrified Field instead of the Ancient Tomb.

And Grim Monolith I have too, but I don't like it.

I think both should become Shivan Reefs.

Moridar has been suggesting cutting some Wastelands, and Dr. Sylvan mentionned something about their presence declining. If so, that might stabilize the mana base somewhat.

Okay, now that I scroll a bit down, I see you mentionned this already. Well, anyhow, since it was independent thoughts, they might be a good idea.

Cut the Tomb, cut the Monolith, add 2 Shivan Reef.

Keep the Wastelands for now, but if you ever find yourself staring at much basic land, maybe cut them for basic Islands?

Heck, even the 1 of the 2 reefs can become a basic Island.

Duplicant is one card I really believe belongs in there. It's powerful with Welders (just keep killing their creatures), and heck, if you nail a Dreadnought, you have a 12/12 thingy .

Arrows, Spellbombs and the burn might not be the best idea, but Fire/Ice could be.

Problem is, the deck is tight as it is...

[SpencerForHire]

For optimum efficiency, I reccomend a second Triskelion.  Now here me out.  He is definately an excellent kill condition, and is more so if you can ping your opponent to zero, the plan is to get one in play and one in yard, then he's all the damage you'd ever need, i don't like having to switch it with something and then itself to come back out.

[Toad]

Mind's Eye is simply bad in $T4KS. It's not explosive enough. Thirst for Knowledge rules, It's awesome. Like, the best card drawer in the deck, before Ancestral Recall.

My current mana base for coloured mana is

1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Volcanic Island
2 Shivan Reef
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Polluted Delta
1 Island
(1 Black Lotus)

so 8 sources of Red and 10 of blue, not counting the Lotus. This works fine.

Hurkyl's Recall sucks in the mirror match. It's all about who can abuse the Welders and who controls the Smokestacks (basically). So bring in Welder removal and Artifact removal.

Karn and Triskelion are useless.

[Shadow Ninja]

I agree with Toad on the issue of Mind's Eye not being powerful enough and on Thirst being awesome.  If Thirst were more aggressively priced, it would be better than Ancestral in Stax.  

I'm not a huge fan of Triskelion maindecked.  The version I run only uses Karn (or Welder beats) as the win condition, and instead runs the 4 Thirsts as extra ways to dig through the deck for that vital lock component or kill card.  Speaking of kill cards, it's entirely possible that your opponent could draw more than you, and thus under the lock a recurring Memory Jar becomes a suitable enough win condition.

I've personally never had troubles with Madness, but I've never run into Artifact Mutation either.  Usually a turn 1 Trinisphere leaves them so far in the dust that you can just go for the lock.  If they Mutation something, or if you don't get first turn 3Sphere, then I could see the problem.

Speaking of Trinisphere, I see it as being entirely better than Sphere of Resistance, just because it's so detrimental to many of the fast decks that have been coming about lately.  I prefer to mulligan aggressively, or play more card draw, or something, over running 6 spheres.  

Shivan Reef seems like an odd inclusion as well.  Wouldn't more fetches be better?

Oh, and Meditate is the bomb, especially under the standard Wire/Stack lock combo.  That's nothing new, but I definitely think it deserves two slots, if not three, just for being so asymmetrical under the lock.

[Razvan]

Thirst for Knowledge rules, It's awesome. Like, the best card drawer in the deck, before Ancestral Recall.

You sound like a Valley girl when you talk like that . Hehe. Just kidding.

I agree with Toad on the issue of Mind's Eye not being powerful enough and on Thirst being awesome. If Thirst were more aggressively priced, it would be better than Ancestral in Stax.

Quite the statement. Actually, I do agree with it being incredibly powerful, even if 3 non-workshop mana can be hard to get sometimes.

I'm not a huge fan of Triskelion maindecked. The version I run only uses Karn (or Welder beats) as the win condition, and instead runs the 4 Thirsts as extra ways to dig through the deck for that vital lock component or kill card. Speaking of kill cards, it's entirely possible that your opponent could draw more than you, and thus under the lock a recurring Memory Jar becomes a suitable enough win condition.

I am not sure that the lack of Triskelion is a good idea. Opposing Welders are a pain in the ass and can ruin your day. Also, it helps win games faster.

I advocate 2 Karn / 2 Triskelion. That could work well.

I've personally never had troubles with Madness, but I've never run into Artifact Mutation either. Usually a turn 1 Trinisphere leaves them so far in the dust that you can just go for the lock. If they Mutation something, or if you don't get first turn 3Sphere, then I could see the problem.

Yeah, Artifact Mutation is a bitch.

Speaking of Trinisphere, I see it as being entirely better than Sphere of Resistance, just because it's so detrimental to many of the fast decks that have been coming about lately. I prefer to mulligan aggressively, or play more card draw, or something, over running 6 spheres.

Hm. Maybe take Sphere of Resistance out? Is that a good idea?

Must be tried though.

Shivan Reef seems like an odd inclusion as well. Wouldn't more fetches be better?

You need more real land. Fetches count as 2 lands, and when the land you get gets destroyed, you can be in real trouble.

I don't really like 4 Fetches in Stax. 2-3 are good, and I would replace the rest with Reefs.

[Toad]

Shivan Reef seems like an odd inclusion as well.  Wouldn't more fetches be better?

If you go first turn Polluted Delta getting a Volcanic Island, you're left with 6 lands in the deck (considering you are running 4 Volcanics and 4 fetchlands). This makes you really vulnerable to Wastelands, because your key spells cost 3 non artifact mana. Shivan Reefs help when facing land destruction and are really strong against heavy LD decks like Keeper. I'm running 2 Reefs and 1 Delta because It's a good compromise between deck thinning (and tutoring for Volcanics) and resiliency to Wasteland.

EDIT : What is a Valley Girl ? (and why would I put one in a toaster, obviously)

[Dr. Sylvan]

EDIT : What is a Valley Girl ? (and why would I put one in a toaster, obviously)

Some online dictionary says: "valley girl - a girl who grew up in the tract housing in the San Fernando Valley".

Further research turns up this:

Valley Girl (a subset of the popular group)
Popularized by the Frank Zappa song of the same name with his daughter Moon Unit. Before this song, it was a regional dialect limited to the "Valley" in California. Afterwards however, teenagers across the country were unfortunately imitating (or at least attempting to). Watch the movie of the same title to get a good solid look at a "Val" in action. The pre-requisite to being fluent in Valley-speak, would be a lobotomy and Daddy's credit card. The word "like" is often repeated and has several different meanings depending on the context in which it is used.

Valley Girls are white chicks who say "like" a lot and only wear designer clothes approved by the empty, soulless husks of their 'friends'.

Not that I've met more than my share of these individuals, of course. And naturally I don't find them to be wastes of oxygen whose main merit is that, being anorexic, they don't consume agricultural resources. Not at all. What would make you think such a thing?![/hyperbole]

Edit: Wait, this is a thread about Magic? Carry on, citizens.

[jpmeyer]

So basically, me.

[jazzykat]

@the Dr.: After reading your tournament response to white weeny and almost pissing my pants then your valley girl description I think you should abandon statistics and write humor articles.

[Dr. Sylvan]

So basically, me.

I'm pretty sure that there's no way to both play Magic and be a Valley Girl. I'm also skeptical about stretching the definition to males in general. Guys do weird metagaming, culturally speaking, to the point that adopting standards from others is only automatically good in the cases of beer, cars, and sports. I'm not sure what you're sayin' though. Were you saying you fit the Valley Girl definition? If so, I refer you to "The Nerds" from the same 80s glossary:

The Nerds
Also known as "the geeks". Mostly filled with students of higher academic pursuits, they were generally lumped into one catch all category. Some in this group could actually move into other groups, such as the popular group or the jocks, but would still be labeled as that particular groups nerd. Hackers, when actually at school, would fall into this group as well, since most tended to be the academic sort (at least in computers and math). Generally their outward appearance set them off from the rest of any group since they were never dressed quite like the rest of the groups.

That should fit more accurately.

Edit: Thanks, jazzy. :)

Edit2: I swear I wasn't planning to hijack! (I'm so Dutch!)

[Grand Inquisitor]

Karn and Triskelion are useless.

I agree that Trike is a sideboard card at best, but without even a single Karn, how are you supposed to win games 2&3 with Welder beats in a timed match?

[Razvan]

Yeah, that's what I meant by a valley girl. Britney Spears-like. Still hot though. And some can even surprise you.

Anyhow, back on track.

I think Stax is a slow combo deck whose win condition spans several turns. It's the anti-thesis of dragon, which needs exactly one spell to win.

Which means that it falls into it's own category. It has such large weaknesses... compare it to a poker game. It's like having pocket Ace/King, and the flop shows an Ace. And your hand is revealed. Which means that you have a pretty strong hand, but still beatable, and you don't know what's coming up, and your opponent has the advantage of surprise.

Okay, if that made any sense...

Another weakness comes from essentially missing a land drop by dropping the Workshop. MUD doesn't need to worry about such a thing, but in Stax, it's typically difficult to cast your colored spells.

Again, the mana base.

Again, the damned Wastelands that hurt it.

[Shadow Ninja]

I hear Moxen are some good when it comes to casting the colored stuff.

And sure, thinning out your deck of lands can be an issue, but you hardly ever need more than one Volcanic Island early to start casting draw to find more.  Thinning lands tends to be a non-issue when you're continually tearing through your deck for more brokenness.  

Also, I've been running a build without Spheres of Resistance (because I lack them, have a playset of 3Spheres, and didn't have the proxy slots available) and most of the time things went smoothly.  Not seeing Trinisphere early can suck, though, but the draw and search aspects should be enough to find one by turn two or three, and if you're Wastelanding and Strip Mining like you should, then waiting a few turns becomes a little less painful.

Oh, and whoever said to pull Wastelands from this list, don't.  They're too good at stalling until you can lock, and then at messing with your opponent after you get lock components down.  You can completely wreck an opponent's strategy by merely removing one permanent from their board in many situations, and the 5 LD effects give you ample resources to do that.

Trisk is handy against opposing Welders and against Artifact Mutation tokens (as well as early Wallas),  but I'm still not sold on having 2 maindeck.  I don't even run two of Karn maindeck, and he's a major win condition, whereas Trisk feels more like trying to be cute with your resources, like TnT.  I suppose one could be squeezed in, though, at the expense of some draw or something.

Oh, and in testing, Chalice has helped out early on in the game when I didn't have first turn 3Sphere.  If you know what your opponent is playing, Chalice can often be just as much of a low blow as Trinisphere, if not being even more painful.  That's why I run 4 Trinisphere and 3 Chalice maindeck.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not a Valley Girl, I'm just overly tired and lacking caffeine.  Phil Whitey over there can testify to that.  BTW, congrats to Phil on the whole getting paid by Starcity thing.  Betcha that's gotta make the number crunching even more orgasmic for you.

[Razvan]

I hear Moxen are some good when it comes to casting the colored stuff.

Unreliable. I think in the past 5 months, I used the Ruby and Sapphire less than 10 times to cast Welder or a blue spell.

[Shadow Ninja]

It's also unreliable that you'll have 3Sphere in the opening hand, but it seems so important to drop that first turn that I'd mulligan to four for it.  Also, considering most of the control elements aren't even colored, you could conceivably play out your lock stuff and stall until you get a colored source (which should appear within the first couple of turns).  Of course, I may be putting to much faith in the soft lock, in which case the answer is to cut something in favor of more colored sources.

And by soft lock I mean the kind of lock that doesn't make the opponent concede automatically, one that's probably missing a vital element or two for the hard lock.

[Wollblad]

This seems to have evolved to a "what winconditions are necessary" discussion. That was not what was ment to be. I think it is very much up to what meta game you expect. Around here, there are lots and lots of Welders and a second Triskelion is what saves your day. A second Karn on the other hand does not help much. At most he eats a mox or two, but thats not good enough.

In general I think most people has pointed out the weak spot of Mind's Eye: you must pass the turn until you can draw a single card from it and instead you could have used that mana to lock your opponent futher. But I'm very suprised no-one seems to question the draw sevens. They are explosive, but very random and in my oppinion too random. As often as they win me the game, they loose me the game. The last mentioned happends a lot in the mirror match.  Response: Hurkyl's Recall from the opponent and the game is lost. Most comments agree that Thirst is fantastic, but is it so good that it can replace draw sevens?

For the mana base, I'm much onto the same idéa as Toad. Replacing a fetch land with a Shivan Reef gives a more stable mana base. Pulling the a land out of the deck is not half as important as getting right colored mana. But I'm not totally keen on cutting Ancient Tomb. Trinisphere is great, but Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance is greater. It is also mana consuming as where this guy lives . Mana acceleration like Grim Monolith or Ancient Tomb, which is the better?

[Shadow Ninja]

On the Fetchland vs Shivan Reef debate, it's not an issue of pulling a land out of your deck versus getting the right colored mana; if you're fetching a land, you're getting Volcanic Island anyway.  That is, unless you're already under a Blood Moon, in which case either your Fetchland or your Reef is a mountain anyway.  The advantage of the Fetch is that if your opponent tries something stupid like Blood Moon, you can respond by finding an Island so that you can still cast blue stuff (assuming you run one safety Island).  The drawback to he fetch is that Stifle becomes super tempo against you, and your opponents will probably already be siding them in to deal with lock components.  

The last time I ran Prison, I ran 4 Thirst, 1 Wheel, 2 Meditates, and Jar, and I was happy enough with the draw element.  Perhaps Windfall and Twister aren't necessary after all?  Of course, there is something to be said for refilling your hand, dropping it, and watching as your opponent never makes a significant play for the rest of the game.  Also, the idea behind using the "symmetrical" draw 7s would be to exploit your lock components, making them as asymmetrical as possible.  If you have Trinisphere, Welders, Wires, and Stacks already doing their evil deeds, then draw 7s quickly become broken for you and 7 more cards in the 'yard for them.

As for Tomb vs Monolith, I would vote Monolith, as in most cases you have to be the control, and the damage from the Tomb is undesirable.  Plus, Monolith gives you a nice Welding target, and in a pinch can be Welded back in if you need three extra mana.  I personally run it and Vault (1 damage/turn is insignificant, 2 is harsh).

One other thing.  Even though this deck is not Slaver, I strongly suggest fitting one or two Slavers in the main.  With or without the lock, they're just broken, and with this deck's penchant for doing nasty things with its mana and making its opponents cry, Slaver is just one more dimension to an already vicious lock.  There's nothing quite like destroying your opponent's only hope at pulling out a win by saccing their best stuff and using their resources against them.

[Smash]

@Shadow Ninja

If stax is doing it's jopb right, even if you take your opponents turn, you can't do anything  All it does is let you pick selectively with the smokestack, which in most cases is a moot point (active smokestack + some lock = you will gring them out anyway)

If your deck is NOT doing it's job, all it does is tap them out for 1 turn, but put them under NO long term pressure (which is the general goal of the deck. Tangle wire is an exception to this I guess, but it still taps 10 things over a few turns, which isn't bad).

[Shadow Ninja]

That's why I said it gives the lock a new dimension.  If you're having trouble getting the conventional lock, Mindslaver is a pretty good alternate way to take control of the game, especially when it can be recurred for several turns in a row with minimal difficulty.  Granted, it should not be necessary if the deck is working optimally, but you can't always hope for that, especially when  your opponent is doing his darnedest to stop your lock.  Slaver is just another way to say "You don't really matter in this game anymore, how about game 2?"

[Dr. Sylvan]

(Yay for Shayne posting!)

For what it's worth, one of the three Stax decks in the February Analysis had Mindslaver. I think it's one of the many personal/metagame options that can win, but sometimes will suck.

[Shadow Ninja]

The thing is, it's hard for taking control of your opponent's turn (repeatedly, even) to suck.  Depriving them of one crucial turn to break the lock is often all it takes to assert complete dominance.  The Mindslaver should not be viewed as a win condition like it is in dedicated Control Slaver, but rather as a setup to the hard lock, and at times as a 6/6 beater with Karn, Bling Bling Golem.  

As for the number I would include, I ran just one in my most recent build of Stax, and it seemed to work fine, never being an unwelcome draw, and helping me turn a bad situation into a good one against Bombs Over Baghdad.  I wouldn't think a second would be necessary, as it's hardly ever needed (but certainly not unwelcome) early, and it can be found with Tinker and the draw stuff.  Thirst even pitches it to the bin for the extra early Slaver activation.  And hey, you get to undertake the ultimate goal of prison: removing your opponent from the game completely.  How awesome is that?

[BreathWeapon]

Going back to Shivan Reefs, one of the big reasons I run them over Fetch Lands is the popularity of Stifle and Root Maze. I see no reason why Stax should weaken itself to additional forms of LD Hate if it doesn't have to.

On win conditions, the only one I bother with is Platinum Angel. The Angel is incredibly useful vs Aggro and Dragon (Laquatos) while simultaneously serving as a 5 turn clock. Combined with Tinker, the Angel provides a dynamic lock vs a handful of commonly seen decks. For me, the Angel replaced Karn a long time ago.

The lone Slaver is worth the MD space IMO. It differentiates your Tinker targets and has saved me from a number of lost games.

[Wollblad]

Going back to Shivan Reefs, one of the big reasons I run them over Fetch Lands is the popularity of Stifle and Root Maze. I see no reason why Stax should weaken itself to additional forms of LD Hate if it doesn't have to.

There might be worth pointing out that myself as control-player was about to raise an objection to this. When you play control, you often make your mana base less resilient to LD if you play fetch lands. But in Stax, you need the mana on your turn and can't wait until the end of your opponents turn to fetch. On the other hand, Shadow Ninja has a point that you might want to find your lone Island, so a few fetch lands feels necessary. Personally, I would run no less than two of them, that gives me three opportunities to find that Island if I need it.

When I read posts here, everyone seems to have like six or seven draw spells besides Memory Jar. If I cut my second Triskelion, I can get up to five, but to fit in more draw spells I would need to cut mana which I have 29 of for the moment (see my first post). I can also cut Sphere of Resistance or Chalice. I see that Shadow Ninja advocates running no Sphere of Resistance. I have tested this myself, but found the deck far more stable with some additional Sphere of Resistance. Then it's left cutting mana down to 28 and perhaps cutting the last two Chalice. Is it worth running less lock components or/and less mana to fit in more draw spells and what can be cut down on?

[Toad]

For what it's worth, one of the three Stax decks in the February Analysis had Mindslaver. I think it's one of the many personal/metagame options that can win, but sometimes will suck.

Kevin Cron was playing one. It's not a metagame call or a personnal option. He simply used one because It's needed against Tog, because otherwise a resolved Tog is game, no matter how long you can prevent him from attacking you thanks to Tangle Wires or whatever else. In this matchup, Mindslaver allows an immediate and definitive winning board position shift.

[Shadow Ninja]

I'm still not wild on running Spheres of Resistance, when in my mind Trinisphere is far superior and Chalice can almost fill the void made by running less Spheres.  By running Chalices over Spheres, you have the ability to not only hamper some of your opponent's best spells, but to make sure that they can't somehow crank out a ton of mana to play them anyway.  Also, with so many people going crazy over combo lately, Chalice is entirely necessary as a way to shut down the combo.  That's why I run 4 Trinisphere, 3 Chalice, and 0 Resistance:  Chalice just seems like a better choice against what could be problem matches.

[Sirena]

Many things are metagame dependent.

Not running Triskelion is a good idea at a large events, but locally (at least for me) Triskelion is a useful card.

I am resisting the idea of removing Sphere of Resistance, so I prefer to have it along with Trinisphere.

I play with Wheel, Jar, 4 Meditate, 2 Thirst, A. Call

Creature-wise, I have 1 Karn, Platinum Angel, and Triskelion, with 4 Welders.

I'm boarding my Chalices lately, because I am a week away from a large event for a Black Lotus and control seemed to reappear out of nowhere.

[BreathWeapon]

Fetch Lands only delay color screw from Wastelands, and your opponent should be Wasting your Workshops first anyway. I'm not sure how great the lone Island tech is for Stax, I've done well enough with out it.

[Lashkar]

Hmm, I'm very reluctant to cut the draw7s from stax, one of the great annoyances of pre-trinisphere stax was how sphere of resistance often slowed down your draw significantly, with trinisphere this is largely a thing of the past - it just fits great with thirst and draw7s, though I still run 3 sphere of resistance, they're that awesome. Another reason I'd be quite reluctant to cut them is that TrinStax (and Stax for that sake) in my experience demands quite aggressive mulliganing either because of lacking mana or lacking/desire lock parts. Having a Draw7 instead of a meditate or something is vastly superior, most often it is possible to soft-lock for a period long enough to squeeze through the draw7 and completely abuse the new 7 cards before the opponent has a chance to utilize his new grip, as long as stax has a fair amount of mana, almost any hand is useful after a draw7. Meditate is awesome when you have a stack with 1-2 counters, but often you've won if you've managed to give them a turn with a stack with 2 counters down AND have the crucial 3 non-workshop mana as well.

As for spheres, in my meta I find them really good, slowing down the opponent is crucial and due to an all time low count of wastes, turn 1 workshop -> sphere (trini or resistance) + mox or other mana source is virtually game over right there, I'm running 4 trini + 3 res to always see one in the opening grip. Obviously sphere of res is rather annoying with the draw but I find that the advantage of slowing the opponents game outweights this, with spheres you can prevent trouble from ever hitting/affecting the board instead of having to deal with it through stax.

I don't know why everybody are running such massive amounts of creatures, stax has a fine matchup against virtually everything save mana denial keeper pre sideboard, if people want to watch you play it out with welder beats or slaver recursion for the duration of the first time, then fine, less time for them to win with all their hate in games 2 and 3 (if you ever get that long). The single slaver, as mentioned by Toad, is _quite_ awesome though and also quite neccesary. I've stolen a fair share of games against mad dragon and Tog with it, they're just about to break free of the lock. Mindslaver hits, you might weld out a sphere or wire (well, mostly against mad dragon) and *bam* it's over, quick'n'dirty, it's like an amazing panic button. I run a karn in the sideboard though, game 1 isn't always won, furthermore I run a trike as well as F/I for the welder mirror.