mixing long, acadamy, and belch ... klong

[kibbe]

klong

mana and fixers (36!!)

2 tropical island
2 bayau
1 tolarian accadamy
4 land grant
1 crop rotation
1 black lotus
1 LED
4 mox's (no ruby)
1 chrome mox
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
3 helm of awakening
4 chromatic sphere
2 u/b egg

draw and tutor (17)
1 demonic tutor
1 vampric tutor
1 mystical tutor
3 death wish
1 ancestal recall
4 brainstorm
4 meditate
2 ancestral knowledge

disruption (5)
3 orims chant
2 duress/unmask

win/other(2)
1 tendrils of agony
1 mind's desire

SB
1 tendrils
1 yag will
1 timetwister
12 others


this is a hybrid of a lot of fast combo decks. the base seems pretty stable, and it has loads of explosiveness in it.

the meditates are instead of the draw 7's (i have my reasons for this, will explain if want) if you wanted to switch all you do is:

-4 meditates
-2 a. knowledge

+ 1 wheel
+ 1 twister
+ 1 jar
+ 1 tinker
+ 1 mox ruby
+ 1 dimishing returns

thats off the top of my head

well let me know what you think

[Jacob Orlove]

Just a decklist. Moved.

[RoadTrippin]

It's a hybrid of 2 mediocre combo decks mixed with one really good combo deck- and all 3 are beaten with the same hate. You lose focus (albeit nearly negligible, but focus all the same) and don't really stand to gain anything. Additionally, I would like to see the reasons for Meditates over draw sevens- essentially they are the same cards only draw sevens tack on a free Ancestral (speaking strictly from a combo perspective). I guess it could be worth trying, but I'd suggest posting some real results and I'd be glad to test it with you.

[kibbe]

mainly i don't like the 7's because they can fill my oppenets hand back up with FOW. thats the big thing i have against them. granted if i get a chant off them im golden, and thats why they are there.

but lets lookat it this way

say i start with jet, ritual, grant, helm, duress, lotus and twister/meditate

now lets say i go, jet, rit, duress and i take a mana drain, then lotus, helm off the rit, and sac lotus get uuu play med/twist with u floating

now if i twist at this point i might have just given them a way to stop me, and unless i drew a new way to stop them then i pass the turn, and don't go off. now if i meditate, then i don't have to worry about this i know they can't stop me anymore and i just go off if i can.

this has been my nit pic with the 7's. maybe im just foolish and under estimate the power of the deck but i still think it should be looked at. it has to have happen at some point that a long, or accadamy player has screwed themselves this way

again this is just a starting point, the deck has some good parents so i fiured i give it a try. the 7's may be the way to go, but i figured i'd throw a twist on it.

i want to get frantic search in there some how, maybe drop the knowledges and a meditate for the search and 2 impluses?

[Purple Hat]

I think the drawback of casting meditate is far worse then the "drawback" of giving your opponent 7 new cards.  first of all, you have no cards in your hand either way.  with the draw seven you pick up 7 cards, and they pick up one or two.  you're still generating card advantage over meditate.  also if your opponent has a counter in his hand, he'll let you meditate and then counter your next spell in the chain.  if you stall after casting meditate they get a free time walk, hell if they drain they often get a mana positive time walk.  also there's always the case where your opponent has a hand with multiple counters but for some reason he lets you cast a draw seven anyway, let's say he has 1 mana drain and 1 stifle, but he only has U up.  getting rid of that stifle can be a good thing.  point is, you don't always know your opponent's hand is getting better if he has 5-7 cards in it and you cast a draw seven, frequently you are guarentee'd to have a better hand after a draw seven.  if he has 2 forces in his graveyard and you cast wheel of fortune you're much more likely to get must counters then he is to get forces.

[mtgmooner]

I have to question the logic presented in the argument...by the same token you are improving the chance that he can draw a FoW in seven new cards, would you not be increasing your odds of drawing what you need to finish the game?  Likewise, you are also getting yourself deeping into your own deck looking for the cards you need to pull off the win...I just dont feel I completly understand the decision for meditate over a draw 7.  you need to play for the win...

[kibbe]

well after i realized that i had left a card out i changed a few things to accomidate it.

-2 A. Knowledges

+1 mana crypt
+1 merchant scroll

well, i tried this configuration and well, the deck didn't perform at all like i thought it would. i stalled out way too often, the mana base didn't seem right or stable, and there were a ton of cards that weren't pulling there weight. i still thought i had the base for something good so i did a little more tinkering, and came up with this next progression. i changed quite a bit so i'll just list the deck instead of the changes.

klong v 2

mana (24)
3 tropical islands
3 bayau
1 tolarian
4 dark ritual
2 cabal ritual
1 channel
1 black lotus
5 mox's
1 chrome mox
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault

mana fixers n getters (9)
4 land grant
4 chromatic sphere
1 crop rotation

draw (11)
1 ancestral recall
2 impulse
4 brainstorm
4 meditate

tutor (7)
1 demonic tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 mercant scroll
3 tainted pact

utility (5)
1 yag will
1 frantic search
1 regrowth
2 death wish

disrupt (5)
3 duress
2 unmask

win (1)
1 tendrils

SB

1 twister
1 tendrils

this is the version i just tested. i did much better than the previous version. i only had the chance to goldfish a few hands, but the changes helped a lot. the mana base seems to have stablized, and the pacts give me a non blue draw/tutor spell, which helps tremendously. channel and regrowth have both been very good additions. regrowth helps me get through when im running out of steam, and makes me less reliant on wishing for the win. with channel i have won every game i have cast it in. the huge boost in mana feels almost longish in sheer power. it really helps out the deck

this being said, it still lacks the explosiveness i was hoping for. i go off on turn 3 almost like clock work, but i really would like to speed it up a bit if i can. i am going to see if my testing is off, too see if its faster than i think, but i think the 7's are going to go in. maybe not all of them, but at least 2 or 3. you guys made some good points, and there just plain fast. plus after reading your views i think that i was foolish to begin with about leaving them out. some of the meditates might stay, but probably not 4 of them.

mind's desire: it was just too costly. getting the to cast it was tough, and the 2 blue was a bitch too. haven't tried it board or main in the new one, but im guessing it would fit well in the board. i still think its too costly for the main, and i don't need it to win anyway so i think that warrants the cut from the main.

eggs: the eggs were horrible, a waste of slots. i am shamed to have even posted a list with them.

helms: see eggs. and i thought the 7's would help my opponent? they were bad

chants: getting white was too much of a pain. just not worth the hassel

LED: i'm not wishing for the win, and i don't have the 7's to sack before. plus there's only one of them. i can't count on getting the mana from them and i don't see it much anyway, so i tossed it as well

i don't think i want to mess with the mana base because it has been really solid so far. the land grants have been very cool. i may consider droppingto 3, or dropping 1 land (which?)but i will need to test this first. they help the mana base, storm count, and you can do some neat tricks with brainstorm. they make it easier to set up the win by making sure you can drop a land to get that 1 extra mana to get you going.

i haven't been impressed with mercahnt scroll in here, and the frantic search isn't pulling its weight either. im at 62(didn't realize it till i totaled everything up) right now and i think that these are the 2 that are going to go.  

i'm guessing i am going to need to MD removal of some kind, even if it is just a chain vapor. would chain work, or would something else be better?

well this deck is getting better, but it still needs a lot of work. thank you for all the suggestions. i'm going to try the deck out a bit more before i start tossing in the 7's, but if my result don't get better the 7's will be going in.

anything i'm forgetting? any suggestions? did i improve from the first version?

all thoughts welcome

[kibbe]

ok here's a new list using draw 7's, changes in bold

mana (25)
3 tropical islands
3 bayau
1 tolarian
1 black lotus
5 mox's
1 chrome mox
1 mox diamond
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
4 dark ritual
2 cabal ritual
1 channel

mana getters n fixers (9)
4 chromatic sphere
4 land grant
1 crop rotation

tutor (6)
1 demonic tutor
1 vampric tutor
1 mystical tutor
3 tainted pact

draw (10)
1 ancestal recall
1 windfall
1 wheel of fortune
1 memory jar
4 brainstorm
2 meditates (-2)

utility (5)
1 yag will
1 regrowth
1 tinker
2 death wish

disruption (4)
3 duress
1 chain of vapor

win (1)
tendrils

SB
1 time twister
1 tendrils
1 mind's desire

this looks really promising, at least to me. im keeping twister in the board for now. i still think that it makes it harder to abuse yag will if i use it main. the other draw 7's let me keep my yard, and that works well with will, regrowth, and powers the cabal ritual as well. i figured with extra lands and the land grants that i could get away with the mox diamond, and it gives me another way to cast the wheel. the tinker can either get me the jar, or can fetch me up the lotus, as a sort of quasi mana fixer.

will test see what happens

[kibbe]

testing results with draw 7's included

someone who really plays combo well may have been able to do better with the hands i had. i'm still learning at this point.

if the games went longer than turn 4, i just stopped. i figured this deck doesn't have the luxury of letting the oppenent "build" for 4 turns and still come back. i only continued if i was basicly setting up for the next turn and not just top decking.

results
game1: stopped after 4
g2: win turn 1
g3: turn 2
g4: turn 3
g5: turn 3
g6: loss (channel for 10, and no way to use it = death by mana burn) turn 3 i think
g7: stopped after 4
g8: turn 4
g9: mull to 6, win turn 3
g10: turn 2
g11: turn 1
g12: turn 2

this means 3 auto losses right off the bat. but i did get 5 off before turn 3. so far average is closer to turn 3 than turn 2 and thats not fast enough to be a good combo.

this is faster than the 4 meditate version i had, but not as much faster as i thought it would be. at least isn't an auto losses if i fizzle out. handing my oppenent a free turn or 3 is not going to win me games. now i can cast a draw 7 and just set up the following turn if i need too. thats a positive i like a lot over the 4 meds version.

a few notes i had while testing

3 pacts is too many, 1 needs to go. they are nice but i drew them more than was needed. i know i can replace 1 of them with something better.

felt like i drew mana too often off the draw 7's. drawing ass hands with no buisness spells sucks. need to thin the deck somehow. more draw? less land/grants?

i only had 1 time i could have cast the mind's desire, and at that point i was about to win anyway. long had the LED's to power the desire, i'm not so lucky, so i think i will cut it entirely

going to 2 cabal rituals is working out fine. i really don't need the 4. they are kind of situational anyway. i also found about half the time i would get the 5, and not just the 3. i always am able to get 5 if using will so they gaive boost

using mox diamond is working out good so far. if i drop the land/grant counts i might drop this as well, but for now it working well.

chain of vapor is huge in this deck. i think i might add 1 more to the deck. i usually have at least 2, or 3 lands in play and mox's and other artifact mana that i can bounce back to my hand upping storm, and mana counts. if these work like this all the time increasing them might make me combo out more often and earlier. also without the frantic search im not going to be able to untap the lands anyway so why not put them to work off the chain vapor.

also the frantic search is not missed at all. i don't have the helms in anymore and that was only way it really added anything. plus with the vapor i am getting double use out of lands anyway, so i really don't think it would help that much anyway

i found that a few times i wished but was color limited (mainly no blue for the twister). on a whim i tried using infernal contract in the SB and that actually help me keep going once or twice, and let me win games i would have stalled out on otherwise. losing 3/4 of your life (1/2 then 1/2 again) is a lot to take for a single card though

partly on the infernal contract thing, and partly on the fact that i found d. wish a dead card and the fact it cost me half my life. ive been thinking that i should cut 1 of the d. wishes entirely or replace one of them with a burning wish, but the red cost could get tough.

the 2 meditates have been ok, but not great. im not sure what i would replace them with though. 4 cards for 3 mana is really good, espcially in combo and i can't think of a replace ment for the loss in draw (hell im trying too add more as it is).

anyway these are my notes. any suggestions would be helpful