help with Control deck (ignores restriction list)

[blia]

Hihi.. These are two decklist I have compiled.. Which is better?? Please keep in mind, that I play with school friends (about 40-50) who don’t follow the usual ban/restriction list…  They play mainly T2 decks, mostly rogues though.

Deck #1
Mana Producers (21)
4x Underground Sea
4x Tundra
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scrubland
1x Sol Ring
4x Wasteland
 
Removal( 11)
3x Sword to Plowshares
3x Orim's Chant
2x Balance
3x Fire/Ice

ToolBox(6)
3x Isochron Scepter
1x Humility
1x Aura Of Silence
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
2x Mind Twist

Tutor (6)
4xDemonic Tutor
2xCunning Wish

Draw (6)
4x Brainstorm
2x Skeletal Scrying

Counters(8)
4x Counterspell
4x Force Of Wills

Win Condition(2)
2x Decree of Justice
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Deck #2
Mana Producers (19)
7x Plains
4x Tundra
6x Islands
2x Sol Ring
 
Removal( 9)
3x Sword to Plowshares
3x Orim's Chant
3x Balance

ToolBox(8)
4x Isochron Scepter
2x Humility
2x Aura Of Silence

Tutor (8)
2x Enlightened Tutor
4x Mystical Tutor
2x Cunning Wish

Draw (6)
3x Brainstorm
3x Impulse

Counters(8)
4x Counterspell
4x Force Of Wills

Win Condition(2)
2x Decree of Justice

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Please vote which deck , do u think is the better one. If you feel it can be improved, please let me know how.. I can’t afford powered cards too..  I will NOT be taking part in any sanctioned tournaments.

thanks!! For reading!

[mogote]

Is there a reason for not including duals etc. in your 2nd deck?
Are you using it in some form of tournament (40 - 50 players)? If so, and if you're ignoring the restricted list, you might as well try a combo deck.

Mind Twist seems quite slow without mana acceleration.

[Jacob Orlove]

Decklists that aren't for type 1 go to the casual forum. Moved.

[xrizzo]

If you don't play with a banned/restricted list, play with 4x contract from below.  (and 4x necro)  You will win everytime with just about any other 56 cards.

[Smash]

Academy is calling your name

However if you don't want to be a dick and play a real deck...

I would cut the chants. They do too little. Sure scepter-chant lock is cool, but not that spell. With 2 wish and 4 demonics you got MAD tutor power. Run lots of really good 1 ofs. 1 Chant in side is good for a wish target, for example.

[ELD]

No banned or restricted list.  Wow, I'd say if you're not winning on the first turn every time(with counter back up), your deck is suboptimal.  I mean, I guess you could consider running a deck with 4 balance and a way to dump your hand and set up a kill condition on the first turn.  No matter what something sick should happen on the first turn.  

Honestly though, I'd encourage you to play with the banned restricted list.  Most of the cards on there are not fun to play against in multiples.  I see no reason to disregard the list, as it's there to try and create a balanced, fun enviornment.  4 strip mines and 4 contract from below is basically playing pokemon.

[hispls]

I stand behind no banned or restricted as magic at its finest (at least for fun casual play) It really was intended that way.  In fact I was just reading a little thing by Richard Garfield (the one who made the game, for those who don't know).  I am going to use it as my quote.  Here's the full version.
"In the end I decided that degenerate decks were actually part of the fun.  People would assemble them, play with them until they got bored or their regular opponents refused to play against them, and then retire the deck or trade off its components for something new--a Magic version of putting the champion out to stud.  Mosst players ended up treating their degenerate decks much like rollplayers treat their most succesful characters:  they were relegated to the background, to be occasionally dusted off for a new encounter."--R. Garfield (1994)

Anyway, if you can use 4 balance use em.  If you can use 4 tutors, use em.  The only thing I'd do is add some kind of draw engine, I love card advantage.  That's just personal preference though.  When you can outdraw your opponent 2 cards to 1 with a good control deck, you pretty much win.

[gashole]

Garfield also assumed the game would only ever be played around kitchen tables in between sessions of D&D, and that no one player would have all the rare cards, so the "neighborhood metagame" would be self-limiting. [It sounds like this is what you have at your school.] Unfortunately for that ideal (but fortunately for Garfield's bank account), Magic is on a much, much larger scale than that now. When you have people playing in tournaments for a significant amount of money or prize, you get a Prisoner's Dilemma. "He's playing a degenerate deck, so I have to play one too just to stand a chance." When every person realizes this, you have an entire format that's just no fun.

Now, having said all that, I'm all for Type 0, but I'm just pursuing it as an intellectual exercise in theory, I wouldn't dare suggest having a real Type 0 tournament.

[Matt]

If you're going to resort to "orginal intent" rules, you might as well play with 30 Lightning Bolts - the game originally had no four-of rule either. Soon enough you'll learn that these rules are in place for a reason.

You don't have to follow Wizards' B&R lists, but you should have SOMETHING. For example, I have an artifact-prison deck with four Voltaic Keys, but it's not a problem because it also has no Moxen or Workshops, and so it's still "fair" despite not following the official Lists.

[Iconorast]

A friend of mine went back east to visit family, and while he was there, he got to stop at a type one unrestricted tournament. I said to him, "holy dicks, here, borrow my p9" and we sent him on his way with about 3 1/2 sets of p9.

he had 3 decks set up for the day -- recnotrix, necrotrix and turboland. he went to the store the night before to play a few hands and scope out the metagame. Basically, it was similar to blia's metagame.

He decided to go with unpowered turboland. He trounced nubdecks left and right. What he had the most trouble with was the 100% burn decks that ran no creatures and made Oath useless until he could wish for and resolve a funeral pyre -- his 'tech' against no creature decks. I think he had a little trouble against a lady with suiblack, but I'm sure that was just a lie he told me.

[hispls]

So you mean that showing up at a tournament where 45% of the people play slaver(ie. northeast championship t1) is fun?  As far as I'm concearned it's the same thing.  No matter what you ban or restrict the format is going to end up the same way.  In a truly unrestricted format people would probably show up with a better mix of stuff.  The point is when you're trying to make really fun decks the restrictions suck, in large tournaments they are a little better, but still innefective since everyone shows up with the same 3 or 4 decks anyway.

[Jacob Orlove]

So you mean that showing up at a tournament where 45% of the people play slaver(ie. northeast championship t1) is fun?  As far as I'm concearned it's the same thing.  No matter what you ban or restrict the format is going to end up the same way.  In a truly unrestricted format people would probably show up with a better mix of stuff.  The point is when you're trying to make really fun decks the restrictions suck, in large tournaments they are a little better, but still innefective since everyone shows up with the same 3 or 4 decks anyway.

This is absolutely true. I only played against nine different decks in my 11 rounds at that tournament (with no mirrors). Clearly, a restricted list leads to savage netdecking, as there will be only one good deck in the format.

Or not. Restrictions keep the format balanced, fair, and fun.