Collectors Edition

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

We have all see the skyrocking prices on all power in the last few months CE included.

1- Why CE? they are not tourney legal, is it the collectors as thre name implies?

---Dont get me wrong i dont own power and i have CE to proxy them...but i cant justify pay a LOT of money for them as they are basically worthless.

2- Do you think the DCI should allow CE in sanctioned tourneys?

[Jebus]

1.  I have no idea.

2.  No.  They have different card backs and corners.  I don't care if you have opaque sleaves, this alone makes them ineligible.

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

but, playing the devils advocate, the same argument could be made for alpha cards/ VERY played cards....

If they were made legal would it boost interest in the type 1 format....how about reprinting them.....

Im not saying that they should neccisarily do either of these...but would they help the format as a whole?

[Jebus]

At least Alpha cards have the same back.

And even still, if an Alpha or worn card can be distinguished even though an opaque sleave, you have a marked card.

Boost intrest?  Perhaps.  Intrest is already increasing, which is partially the problem with higher prices.

I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing them reprinted.

Would it help?  It would make it a bit more accessible.  So, everyone has better access to power.  I suppose that helps.  However, that really hurts some others at the same time.

[rvs]

1. So Collectors wouldn't have to shell out big bucks to have a set of Beta (BB first edition, essentially).

2. You could feel them. Being the Angels Advocate, VERY played cards aren't legal either. Also, the same thing could be said about foils. Even WITH sleeves I can feel them. I once tried playing 4 foils as AK's, and the rest mundane cards. Everytime I shuffled my deck, I could stack an AK on top, or at least within the first 3 cards. It's even more obvious in Sealed decks which are often played without sleeves. Foils are really easy to detect.

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

Dont get me wrong i'm not holdinhg my breath to see if any of these things are going to happen. I just think it would be a good thing for the format....more cards-more players-mor einovation-great format and decks.

The real question is.....does it even matter?
How many tourneys are run every year for type 1 that allow proxies, one of the only ones that does not allow it is Gen Con

[rvs]

I'd say, if you can get them cheap, get them. Anything under ebay price is fine, since they won't go down unless magic collapses (and even then, you probably have a nice window of time to get rid of them), so you won't lose any money. Also, they make perfect proxies. You can probably "feel" printouts a lot easier than CE, but if you practise on it, you can cut any way you want ofcourse.
Also, proxies shouldn't be scribbled on stuff. It doesn't make sense. I hate proxies. I'm glad european tournaments don't do that shit.

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

I agree if you do allow proxies...they need to be printouts of the real card.


This is just a question as to how people think it would change the enviroment.

[Jebus]

Well, bad deck builders will still build bad decks.  They'll just have P9 cards in them a lot more.

And bad players will still be bad players, they'll jus thave the P9 to play badly with.

[rvs]

Jebus, I don't fully agree with you on that last part. While it might not really improve anything with the curent player base, it could drag a LOT of new blood into the game initially, of which some part will be good players, thus increasing the overall skill level of the serious tournaments.

[Jebus]

I was really referring just to current bad players who already play Type 1.

You are right, it would probably bring in better players who did not consider Type 1 as a format.

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

You are right, it would probably bring in better players who did not consider Type 1 as a format.[/quote]


-Correct, which is one of the main reasons why I brought the subject up...
I personally would love to see Vintage become more mainstream....I think its a wonderful format that currently has an amazing meta........it if were more widely played and thought about I think it would be even better

[Jebus]

While that is total truth, there are several implications with making CE cards legal that may outweigh the benefits.

I don't really want to go into this again, as this topic has come up time and time again.

[mtgmooner]

@ jebus:

I couldnt agree with you more.  Despite the fact that there are great and far reaching implications for allowing CE cards to be allowed into tourneys, the first point you made is the most valid.

Play skill, and deck-building knowledge are still the most fundamental assets to any player in the game.  While access to a greater card pool certainly changes any potential deck or matchup, there still has to be a knowledge present to fully and correctly implement the usage of these OOP cards...

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

Like I said before...I fully agree that the DCI will never make these cards legal, nor will WOTC ever re-print them. Wjich is not to say there isnt some merit in either of those things happening, their may be a great deal of it.

Jebus- Sorry man, Im new I looked real quick to see if this topic was already up somewhere, and I didnt see it. This is just a popular discussion in the area I live in, and I wanted to know how players in other areas felt about it.

[Tha Gunslinga]

The difference between Alpha and CE:

Alpha was printed as a players set.  It was meant to be played with.

CE and IE were printed for collectors and for casual play.  They were specifically intended NOT to be tourney legal.

[Tank]

I really can't see why you're complaining??? I mean, they let you guys use PROXIES FOR TURNAMENTS!!! You guys don't realise how lucky you are!

Explanation: I'm from Europe (Denmark to be exact) and proxies are NOT a thing in our T1 tournaments (all sanctioned, that might be the reason? Or do they allow proxies in DCI-sanctioned tournaments in the US?). It's annoying, since less people play with proxies, resulting in a massive amount of decks like fish and landstill in the metagame (you know what to fight, which is a good thing, but I still hate spiketail hatchlings and cloud of faeries!!!). People here like T1 and the popularity of the format is, like everywhere els in the world, currently going up! Duals and other T1 staples have gone up nearly 100% in value during the last year, thnak god I finished my dual-playsets last year!

Whoa, sideline there... anyways, as long as you get to use proxies, I don't see why you're complaining. Once you try a non-proxie environment, come back and tell me how you fell when THAT happens, until then: consider yourselves blessed, lucky and generally better palced than us on the european continent

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

I agree, for the most part a player does not need power to play type 1 in the USA, u need all the unrestricted stuff.....but thats it...

I started this thread mainly as a discussion peice.....

[mrieff]

CE is also of great interest to collectors.
The cards have the same feel as the originals. With the originals getting more expensive, it makes sense for the next best thing to increase as well. Especially since the not-tourney legal aspect may be less relevant for collectors, lowering the prize difference between CE and AL/BE.

[mrieff]

Everytime I shuffled my deck, I could stack an AK on top, or at least within the first 3 cards.

So you like putting AK's on Top Rudy? Join the club!!!

   
http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=Worlds2001\466williamsdq    
   

[xrizzo]

How this is being discussed again, I don't know.  The biggest reason for the skyrocketing price is the prominence of transforming the cards into beta/alpha cards.

I think this has also actually INCREASED the price of regular power because the sellers with good feedback are able to command significantly higher prices because people know they are getting the real thing.  

As it has been said many times before, this vicious cycle will end at some point - sometime after the business case for WotC supports a change in policy of some sorts.

[FORCE-OF-WILL]

As it has been said many times before, this vicious cycle will end at some point - sometime after the business case for WotC supports a change in policy of some sorts.[/quote]

What do you mean?