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st00mie
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« on: March 13, 2004, 04:22:05 am » |
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We were brainstorming what Stacker would be able to do in a match against Dragon besides Blood Moon/Chalice/Wasteland, and I thought about [card]Manabarbs[/card]. I know Ankh of Mishra was tried for a little while against Dragon, but could be worked around by using Necromancy during the opponents turn. It seems to me (and LevelZero) that with Manabarbs, the Dragon effect would go on the stack, and then the Dragon player would tap for mana, adding the damage effect to the stack, forcing the player to let the Manabarbs effect resolve in order for the Dragon to trigger again. Assuming this is correct, would Manabarbs be playable at its   cost? |
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Team One Eight Seven: gg.
<Rndm-misR> The intnet is full of talentless idiots :/
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Razer51
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2004, 04:45:47 am » |
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It would be the same as Ankh. They could get around it by playing Necromancy on the Opps turn.
C
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Smash
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2004, 05:07:32 am » |
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# This card has a triggered ability (see Rule 404) that causes a separate effect for 1 point of damage each time a land is tapped for mana. [D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
Same as ankh |
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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?
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kl0wn
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2004, 05:11:14 am » |
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Not to mention, a 4cc non-artifact card would be a little too clunky with Workshop, especially against combo when you want that business out fast.
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Team kl0wn: Quitting Magic since 2005?
The Fringe: R.I.P.
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wonkey_donkey
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2004, 07:00:11 am » |
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I don't think it's the same as ankh. If you cast necromancy, then the following would happen:
Cast Necromancy
Dragon CIP trigger goes on stack
Resolves
Dragon goes to gy
LP ability goes on stack
Necromancy targets dragon
Dragon CIP trigger goes on stack
tap lands for mana
Manabarbs goes on stack above dragon CIP ability
Resolves, dealing damage.
The reason that the ankh didn't work was that when everything came back into play, the necromancy targeted the dragon and then the dragon's CIP ability goes on the stack on top of the ankh trigger. However, as the manabarbs is not competing for stack space, as it were (i.e. they don't go on the stack in a certain order because of who's the active player), with the dragon CIP ability, it would work.
The problem I'd have with the card is not the rules text but the casting cost. If you could use workshop, then it'd be fine. It also doesn't affect moxen or bazaars, so as long as the player has some sort of jewelry down he can still win.
Tom
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The 10 Commandments? ~300 words.
The Declaration of Independence? ~1300 words.
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A true cynic calls himself a realist.
Success is a matter of luck - ask any failure...
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darkh0rse
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2004, 08:19:55 am » |
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The biggest issue is being able to get this in play prior to the dragon player winning, Barring a Sol Ring on the play or a lotus/double Mox/ or manacrypt on the draw I really dont see this coming out prior to Dragon going off, deffinately kudos on the orriginal idea but I would think that testing would prove this card to be too slow, by all means test it out though and post your results.
-Alex
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ELD
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1462
Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2004, 05:57:25 pm » |
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Even if you could somehow start the game with Mana Barbs in play, dragon only needs one mana artifact to make it totally useless. A single mox or crypt will generate all the mana they need. Ankh works vs most dragon decks, as they kill you with laquatus. Unless they have an instant kill (instants such as stroke, or animate targets like shivian hell kite or flamewave invoker), the damage will resolve after they combo.
BTW it would be awesome if someone could figure out a way to build a spell checker into this forum, I can't spell to save my life.
Bad spellers of the world untie
Peace,
Eric
ELD
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Developer
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2004, 05:21:55 am » |
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But if the Ankh already hit play, how can a dragon player prevent from losing? Yes, he can generate mana by artifacts, but the lands will be coming into play and therefore triggering ankh. As a state-base effect the player will lose just when their life goes to 0 or below. Am I missing a point?
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< Don't believe in miracles. Rely on them. >
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combo_dude
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2004, 06:40:42 am » |
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Yes. If the Dragon player uses Necromancy, then according to APNAP (i.e. the active player - the player whose turn it is), the Dragon player gets to put Necromancy on the stack above Ankh of Mishra (assuming that he's going off during the opponent's turn). This means that eventually the guy gets decked with Ambassador+Ancestral with 10 billion Ankh of Mishra effects on the stack. That's the Dragon player's answer.
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The thing you are typing on is a keyboard, not a cellular phone. |
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firebird365
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2004, 06:41:50 am » |
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If you Necromancy on your opponents turn, the APNAP rule comes into effect and the Dragon player can win before the Ankh's effects resolve. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
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--firebird365--
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