A note to all FCG players

[Vegeta2711]

Cut Tormod's Crypt in the board for Null Rod if see heavy amounts of artifacts.

It helps the Slavery and Trinistax matches to some extent and doesn't overly cripple you.

Oh yeah, you wanta cut a Chrome Mox for a Mountain if you do though.  

[GodzillA]

We of the FCG Owns the World Consortium (FOWC) are in complete agreeance on this matter. Considering the decline of Dragon in the meta, Null Rod is likely an acceptable if not fully preferable SB option.

[Razvan]

Dammit... everyone's packing Null Rods nowadays. Problem is that FCG still gets hurt by the 2 Spheres Stax runs (or so I see).

FCG is so much weird fun.

Oh, and echoing Godzilla, if Dragon is declining, will people stop bitching and whining and crying and moping that Bazaar should be restricted? Maybe we should run a poll or something .

[Plainswalker]

This is what my sideboards looking like right now.

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Rack and Ruin/Artifact Mutation (still not sure)
4 Root Maze
3 Null Rod

Just curious what the other FCG players were running as well.

REB: Blast is for control obviously

R&R vs Artifact Mutation: I'm not sure yet, vs Slaver and Aggro shop decks I like the Mutation better, but vs Trinistax I like the R&R better. These change constantly

Rootmaze: Put these in over crypts because they work vs. both dragon and other combo decks, as opposed to just dragon.

Null Rod: More artifact hate, I don't know if it's to much with R&R/AM, these are a recent addition so I haven't tested fully sideboarding with them yet.

[BreathWeapon]

Ya, I tried this this the other night when Chains was talking about the whole Null Rod issue vs Slavery and how the decks that use it are over come by FAT. I'm running a No-Strip, 4 Tomb and 4 ESG build utilizing the Rods and they seem to be pretty strong. Considering FCG and Slavery have roughly the same speed Combo wise, I figure Null Rod should be a pretty potent SB card for that match up.

[Fëanor]

@Plainswalker, I find A.M. to be more consistant and overall better than R&R in FCG. Why? Well, first of all, R&R still rules, but the added bonus of adding little beasties to the board under a trin-lock (remember they'll both cost 3cc anyway) just makes the mutation a must have. pay nothing for cretures and get rid of a pasky artifact, I'd say against Trin, leave the Stack, and pop that trin, just out-permanent him.
Artifact Mutation = red DoJ, in most cases

tormod's crypt has little use anymore, but it is still a staple against many mid-range decks out there (then again, when will survival-nightmare be coming back???).

Rootmaze is perfect, but it has a temporary stall feel to it. With Null Rod on the table, many decks would rather scoop.

Peace

[Matt]

Yeah, FCG doesn't give one tiny rat's ass about fat. Seriously, if they can just run right through Darksteel Colossus, I don't think Memnarch is going to make a dent.

[Vegeta2711]

Yeah, FCG doesn't give one tiny rat's ass about fat. Seriously, if they can just run right through Darksteel Colossus, I don't think Memnarch is going to make a dent.

So true.

Even with full power, I'd run Null Rod in the board. They make your Slavery matches a lot better post board and a lovely suprise SB card if you want to bring it in against anything else. (Combo, occasionly control/prision)

Game 1 is all about Who's the Broken, but then Game 2 & 3 you need the extra anwsers to what they board in.

Right now this is my current SB.
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Artifact Mutation
4 Null Rod
3 Blood Moon

I might switch to running 4BM and 3NRod, but since smmenarch is hyping his decks so much, I figure everyone will jump on the bandwagon for at least a good month so 4NRod is preferable.

[The Atog Lord]

Rootmaze is perfect, but it has a temporary stall feel to it.

I agree that Null Rod is better than Root Maze. However, there's nothing wrong per se with a card being a "temporary stall" in an aggro deck. Many FCG vs Workshop Slaver games come down to a single turn of speed, so that slight delay may well be all that is needed.

[Plainswalker]

The Atog Lord said what I would have, temporary stall is all your looking for, Null Rod is also a temp stall, but it is also a powerful choice. Also I wasn't looking at Root Maze so much for the slaver matchup (although I'd like to test and see how much it changes the game vs them) but the dragon and tps/draw 7 matchup. Dragon can't make as much mana as it wants so it has to go beat down, which buys you a few turns and thats even if you don't block, which I don't think any extra reanimate targets in dragon have trample or flying, except dragon itself. Rootmaze pretty much is a win vs TPS especially if you back it up with Null Rod so they have to look for two answers.

I'm still not sure on A.M. Vs Rack and Ruin, yes they both cost three under 3Sphere, but you've been slowed down so much at this point that your probably going to need to deal with more then one thing, and I wouldn't be worried about the 3 Sphere once I ramp up to 3 mana anyways since I'm fine from there if they only have semi board control and I have R&R...so I don't know still  

Also is there any way we can make sure this deck goes combo more often? I'll toss out the horrible suggestion of wordly tutor, which I don't think would really be any good, but just to get conversation starting...plus every suggestion afterwards will look good because I started with Wordly Tutor  :lol:

[GodzillA]

Worldly Tutor has been suggested before. It's simply a bad idea. First, the deck wants the least reliance upon green as possible. More importantly, Worldly Tutor isn't a goblin. The only non-goblin, non-mana card the deck wants is Food Chain, with the possible exception of Wheel of Fortune. Also, the greatest hinderance to comboing out in my experience is not finding Food Chain, which Worldly does nothing to fix. In theory, Gamble could do the job, but I've tested "pure combo" builds using Gamble and the results were rather poor. I think it's best simply to accept that the deck won't always combo out, especially against control, and to focus on keeping the deck's secondary plan (aggro) as tight and cohesive as possible.

[Plainswalker]

I'll toss out the horrible suggestion of wordly tutor, which I don't think would really be any good

I know it's bad, gamble is horrible as well though so I don't know if you were just tossing ideas around like I was either. I just think there's got to be some random old jank card that might actually fit into here, there's useally some card laying around people have forgotten about. Your right though, keeping the secondary plan as solid as possible will probably keep this from becoming constantly a combo deck, but I was just hoping for something.

[SpencerForHire]

I myself run Rack Or Ruin, but the idea of null rod sounds pretty good,  my only concern would be the decrease of speed.  However if this completely destroys one match-up, it could definately be worth the sideboard slots.

[jpmeyer]

I'll toss out the horrible suggestion of wordly tutor, which I don't think would really be any good

I know it's bad, gamble is horrible as well though so I don't know if you were just tossing ideas around like I was either. I just think there's got to be some random old jank card that might actually fit into here, there's useally some card laying around people have forgotten about. Your right though, keeping the secondary plan as solid as possible will probably keep this from becoming constantly a combo deck, but I was just hoping for something.

And do you really need more than 8 Recruiters?

[Plainswalker]

I don't think I'd mind that at all actually, as long as we were to go totally combo, but without a way to pull up food chains, there is no reason for it and as I said, would make the aggro element that much weaker and the aggro part is what makes it more interesting then most combo decks to me. But I'm talking in circles, the deck is probably fine the way it is now with a little tweaking to the sideboard and playing around with the two different versions I've heard about, with and without wastelands. Besides meta game tweaking though, does anyone have any other idea's for the deck at the moment, or is it as good as it's gonna get for the time being?

[Marco]

How about 1 or 2 Goblin Wizards main deck. I know no one plays white (weenie), but it can put a Siege-Gang Commander or Goblin Ringleader into play for free, and it can give a couple of fat Goblin Piledrivers protection from white to get past Decree of Justice soliders or angels for the win...

[SpencerForHire]

Wizard costs too much to be considered a good way to shoot out creeps.  Minus maybe a control matchup where it is a way to get around counterspells, I would stick to the lackeys and just hardcasting, I really dont see what I would wanna take out for the wizard anyways.

[jCoKn]

Back to the sideboard issue...

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blood Moon
3 Null Rod

What I've found is that against most bigtime decks (excl. Osh Stompy, RG Beats, and Sligh, and some others I cant think of) I sub in 6 every time. My meta is also really blue heavy (keeper, control, tog, landstill, etc.) so I run 6-blasts either to protect my combo going off or to prevent my death. For Dragon (which is still big around here) the crypts and blood moons get run. For Stax, MUD, and Slaver, I side crypts and null rods. For Prison I side blood moons and null rods.

FCG's sideboard is also unique in the fact that, though it is extremely helpful sometimes, it won't cost the deck the game without the hate cards.

[Zelc]

On the issue of sideboard artifact destruction, remember that Artifact Mutation costs 2 and RnR costs 3.  Normally, this would be in favor of Artifact Mutation, but do remember that every good pilot of decks that plays Chalice of the Void (which is most of the decks that can run Trinisphere and then some) will try to set them at 2 against you (Recruiter, Piledriver, etc).  Therefore, I recommend a 3cc or 1cc artifact destruction spell.

Btw, when I played FCG, I used Mogg Salvage as my sb anti-artifact t3ch.  I wouldn't recommend it, however, unless you see lots of Slaver or U/R Stax, and even then, I still don't really think it's that great.

[GodzillA]

Besides meta game tweaking though, does anyone have any other idea's for the deck at the moment, or is it as good as it's gonna get for the time being?

I think it's about as good as it can get. As a matter of fact, there's really rather little metagame tweaking that can be done to the deck, excepting the sideboard. For the most part, every single card in the deck is necessary for the engine to work properly. There are a few tweaks here and there, but it rarely changes by more than 2 or 3 cards.

do remember that every good pilot of decks that plays Chalice of the Void

This is rather astute. I meant to mention something about it myself. Some FCG builds run both Naturalize and either Mutation or R&R. If you're running Naturalize, then R&R is probably a better choice, as it allows for some variance in the cc's of your answers to Chalice and other artifact threats. Even if you're not running Naturalize, I tend to prefer R&R, because it doesn't require green, and because it removes 2 opposing threats, which is often better than getting tokens out of the deal, in my experience.

[jCoKn]

The nicest thing about FCG is that even when opp is holding a Chalice, 1st game chances are he won't know whawt to drop the Chalice for, 1 2 or 3 unless he's very familiar with the build and knows exactly how the combo goes off. Fact is, a lot of people overlook FCG and will drop a Chalice for, say 1, and then watch at the first game goes to the goblins. Then second game, when he does decide to play a Chalice for two (piledrivers are soooo powerful) you'll have answers to that. Which brings up my question: If Chalice's cc is XX (lets assume 2x2 or 4 for the second game) if it gets Artifact Mut'd do I get 4, 2, or 0 saps? Me and my friends got into a little debate about that yesterday and I thought it best to ask the community first. Anybody have the answer?

[MadManiac21]

0 tokens. Casting cost is only 4 while the Chalice is on the stack. This is why mox monkey can eat them for one, since its mana cost is 0 while in play.

[Plainswalker]

G24.1a - If a cost has an "X" in it, the value of X must be announced as part of playing the spell or ability. (See Rule 409, "Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.") While the spell or ability is on the stack, the in its mana cost equals the amount announced as part of playing the spell or ability. If a card in any other zone has in its mana cost, the amount is treated as 0. If you're playing a spell that has X in its mana cost, and an effect lets you play it without paying any cost, that includes X, the only legal choice for X is 0. See Rule 409, "Playing Spells and Activated Abilities." [CompRules 2003/12/01]

Thought it was zero, but just checked to be sure and it was. Godzilla pointed out exactly what I meant to say about R&R plus some, the red mana thing is really relevant since I don't useally fetch out a dual until I know I can play Food Chain if at all possible.

Lol jCokn, the funny thing is with how wierd the CC of the creatures is, I was still able to go off a while back With 1 Sphere of resistence (there were actually 2, I A.M. the other one) and Chalice for 1 and 2.

Anyways I don't think I have much more to say about this for the time being so we'll wait and see if Fifth Dawn brings us anything.

Edit: Was typing when Maniac posted  

[BreathWeapon]

Artifact Mutation is arguably the best arifact removal the deck can support, while simultaneously being the worst option for the SB.

Every Slavery or Trinistax player will set their Chalice for 2, or they are total morons. I suggest a healthy mix of varying cc removal, Oxidize, Mutation and R&R to keep the Artifact Players off balance. Simply choosing 1 over the other is suicide.

[Plainswalker]

Artifact Mutation is arguably the best arifact removal the deck can support, while simultaneously being the worst option for the SB.

I don't think you could have put that any better  

Since these are sideboards we're talking about, it's hard to argue what is better or worse for metagames. I think packing only 4 Artifact removal, (R&R for me at the moment) R&R would be the best choice, since it is powerful and harder to "chalice out" plus all the other reasons that have been mentioned before this. If you see a ton of artifact based decks though, maybe 6 removal spells with more varying CC's maybe better. Without card draw though, I wouldn't like to have say, 2 A.M. and 2 R&R in my deck and be praying to draw the correct one.

[Xhad]

Is Oxidize really necessary with Goblin Vandals maindeck?  Or have people stopped playing those?

[Vegeta2711]

I disagree simply because AM is so damn poweful. But I wouldn't chastise anyone over running R&R in there place.

Oxidize is simply too weak for being a off-color spell.

[BreathWeapon]

It also slightly depends on your Manabase, people with Ancient Tombs are more likely to use R&R effectively. I like Artifact Mutation, but when the default setting for the only 2 Prison decks worth playing is currently set at 2, is it really the card we want?

[Marco]

Has anyone given any serious thought to Artifact Blast for the sideboard? I know it's a dead card against (doesn't destroy) artifacts already in play, but it can stop a Chalice of the Void or a Mindslaver from coming into play.

What about Seedtime in Control (blue) heavy metagames? This one probably suffers from the fact that it is green (I agree that FCG should rely on green cards as little as possible, Food Chain being the obvious exception). On the plus side, Seedtime can't be countered with Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast (if anyone still plays with those), and four Time Walks would be a Godsend in this deck.

[Vegeta2711]

I disagree simply because AM is so damn poweful. But I wouldn't chastise anyone over running R&R in there place.

Right, that should anwser that question.

What about Seedtime in Control (blue) heavy metagames?

And what would we be cutting for these things? Not even mentionion that they cost 1G and are completely dead unless my opponent decides to cast stuff on my turn and I have that 1G open. (I.E. I normally don't)

They -seem- like they could be good, but based on how often I'm tapped out, I can't see how I would be able to use them.